Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, VIC
    Posts
    185

    Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hey guys,

    Ive recently made the transition from milk based coffees, to short blacks.
    What Im noticing is quite a prominent sour taste in all the shots I pull. Its not an occasional thing, but rather a constant one.

    My current situation:
    - Sunbeam EM6910 Machine, with temperature set to max (+4 degrees)
    - Machine warmed up for at least 45 mins prior to use, with group handle locked in.
    - Cups prewarmed with hot water
    - Mahlkonig Vario grinder with freshly roasted beans
    - Pulling great looking shots, no distinct signs of channeling (though I cannot be definite without a naked pf) - usually around 50ml extracted before blonding

    I am currently at wits end, as I cannot seem to achieve this perfectly tasting espresso,

    Open to all suggestions,

    Cheers,
    Jayson

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    139

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    Hi Jayson,

    I have a similar setup to you.* I was getting getting sour shots a while ago, but grinding finer and increasing the temp to +2 degrees seemed to fix it.* I find that I get best results when I extract shots in around 30+ secs.* I still cant drink short blacks though, the taste is too acidic... but I suppose that could just be the beans Im using.

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    20

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    Hi Jayson,

    I have the same problem with mine and I am sure it is to do with temperature. Someone more technical will probably be able to explain it! I use a fine grind with a lighter tamp and dose which seems to help. But I still get sour "lemon peel" taste on some shots.

    Cheers,
    Ben.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    139

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    Maybe you should test the water temp coming out of your group head..
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1266222481

  5. #5
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,381

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5358404A5657555C564E390 link=1299667325/0#0 date=1299667325
    freshly roasted beans
    Please define ? Fresh Roasted

    Also what is your head Temp set to ?

    When did you last do a Full and Correct Clean ?

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, VIC
    Posts
    185

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    Thanks for the responses guys,

    Yash - Unfortunately my machine is already on the maximum temperature setting, so that cant be modified any further. Im finding that I cant slow the pour down with a finer grind without choking the machine.

    AM - Current blend from CoffeeHit, 4 days post roast.
    The default for the Sunbeam is 92 degrees I think, and Ive increased it by 4 (the max), so that would be 96.

    My last Full clean was a week and a half ago,
    I took out the two screens and gave them a scrub, and chemical cleaned with a cafetto.
    And the last descale was at the end of December.

    Thanks,
    Jayson

  7. #7
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,381

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3E352D273B3A38313B23540 link=1299667325/5#5 date=1299752597
    Im finding that I cant slow the pour down with a finer grind without choking the machine.
    1: Check your sweet spot

    2: Drop ya Group temp and try as a test.

    Sour can be an issue due to Temp but it can also be other things.

    I am running about 89 at the moment with my current roast and it gives a good cup.

    Not sure but Light roast = higher temp and Dark roast can work well with a lower temp.

    Grind / dose and Tamp also sneak in and cause further issues. 4 days post roast... Some of my beans would not be worth even grinding at 4 days. Thus not being of that establishment. Then you can only assume all is OK. Mind you I have been told teh same and the beans have been the cause.

    Nothing tike home roast as your then in the loop as to the reay status of the beans.

    Let us know how you go.

  8. #8
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3D362E2438393B323820570 link=1299667325/5#5 date=1299752597
    Im finding that I cant slow the pour down with a finer grind without choking the machine.
    There are two ways to slow down a pour.

    1/ Finer grind
    2/ More coffee

    If you have no room to dose more, then grind finer and to offset the choking use less coffee.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    North Rothbury, NSW
    Posts
    1,104

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    Eliminate variables one by one...

    Get your hands on an Espro or Demaral

    Espro, double basket, mound, tap, mound again, flat sweep then tamp to click.

    Now you can isolate other issues.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, VIC
    Posts
    185

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    AM -
    My sweet spot seems to be around 2 - 3 oclock on the gauge, and when I pull shots it does sit around there nicely.
    I tried dropping the temp a couple of days ago, and the sourness still persisted.
    I would love to homeroast, but still being relatively new to this hobby, Id rather hold off from introducing yet another variable.

    TG -
    Im finding at my current 19g dose, Im seein a very faint imprint of the showerscreen on the dry puck.
    I dont want to overdose as I think this causes unnecessary wear on the collar?
    I will try 18g and 17g doses tomorrow with a finer grind and see how that goes,


    thanks again

  11. #11
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,381

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    I would also grab some other beans.

  12. #12
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3B3028223E3F3D343E26510 link=1299667325/9#9 date=1299756645
    TG -
    Im finding at my current 19g dose, Im seein a very faint imprint of the showerscreen on the dry puck.
    Then thats the limit (for that bean/blend).

    Quote Originally Posted by 3B3028223E3F3D343E26510 link=1299667325/9#9 date=1299756645
    I dont want to overdose as I think this causes unnecessary wear on the collar?
    Agreed; hence my previous comment.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3B3028223E3F3D343E26510 link=1299667325/9#9 date=1299756645
    I will try 18g and 17g doses tomorrow with a finer grind and see how that goes
    Ive been experimenting over the last week or two with lower doses.

    So far all is good and Im finding some unexpected benefits.



  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, VIC
    Posts
    185

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5B747D7F68577B747B7D7F777F746E1A0 link=1299667325/10#10 date=1299757080
    I would also grab some other beans.
    Yeah, Im planning to pay a visit to BBB in Melbourne, and maybe pick up their beans.

    TG -
    What are some of the benefits youve found with lower doses?
    To what extent are you lowering the dose? eg. do you end up with a sloppy puck?

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    139

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4348505A4647454C465E290 link=1299667325/12#12 date=1299758473
    To what extent are you lowering the dose? eg. do you end up with a sloppy puck?
    I prefer the taste of smaller dose doubles but find I need to use at least 17 grams to get an OK puck.* 18 grams gives a better puck but still very brittle.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4348505A4647454C465E290 link=1299667325/5#5 date=1299752597
    Yash - Unfortunately my machine is already on the maximum temperature setting, so that cant be modified any further. Im finding that I cant slow the pour down with a finer grind without choking the machine.
    I was actually suggesting you check your machine to make sure its not faulty.* Ive read of some 6910s not producing hot enough water.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Rusty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Carlingford NSW
    Posts
    691

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    I know it depends on the beans, but I find 21g gives me the shot and taste I like. The puck is nice and dry and the crema is great. Anything above 21g puts too much pressure on the collar and anything below that leaves a wet puck and pours too fast.

    I run at factory settings and use a Dema.RAL tamper for set and forget tamping.

    When I change beans or the humidity changes I just need to adjust the grind.

  16. #16
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,381

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0D2A2C2B265F0 link=1299667325/14#14 date=1299820524
    use a Dema.RAL tamper for set and forget tamping.
    OT: When you go to upgrade ya tamper ... Call me ;)

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    139

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    Hey Jayson,

    Maybe you just need to extract a bit more volume? The first third is generally sour, second sweet, and third bitter.* If you dont get enough of the last third you could get an overall sour tasting shot.

    Just my 2 cents* ;)

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, VIC
    Posts
    185

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    Hey guys, sorry about the late response, have been busy over this weekend,

    Ive tried:
    - lowering the dose, with a finer grind, the pour looks good, but the sourness persisted.
    - dropping the brew temp to factory setting, which resulted in the same sourness, if not worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by 425A48535255575A4F525D3B0 link=1299667325/13#13 date=1299766342
    I was actually suggesting you check your machine to make sure its not faulty. Ive read of some 6910s not producing hot enough water.
    Is there an accurate way to gauge the temperature at the brew head? Ive read that the water cools as it exits, and will always read lower than optimal.

    Quote Originally Posted by 425A48535255575A4F525D3B0 link=1299667325/16#16 date=1299891116
    aybe you just need to extract a bit more volume? The first third is generally sour, second sweet, and third bitter. If you dont get enough of the last third you could get an overall sour tasting shot.
    Ive also tried stopping the shot lighter (well after the onset of blonding) but the overbearing sourness still persisted.

  19. #19
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    10,496

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by 353E262C3031333A30285F0 link=1299667325/12#12 date=1299758473
    TG -
    What are some of the benefits youve found with lower doses?
    To what extent are you lowering the dose? eg. do you end up with a sloppy puck?
    One benefit has been less cleaning needed as updosing tend to push grinds into every nook and cranny.

    Another one is getting about two more shots from a bag of beans.

    I get the occasional sloppy puck if I havent adjusted correctly.

    Ive gone as low as 17g, down from my old mark of 21g.

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    139

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5F47554E4F484A47524F40260 link=1299667325/1#1 date=1299674017
    I find that I get best results when I extract shots in around 30+ secs
    Im not sure I agree with myself anymore... ha ha! What a learning process!* Im back to aiming for the traditional 25-30 sec mark.

    Quote Originally Posted by 724E5348424354414942260 link=1299667325/18#18 date=1300015390
    One benefit has been less cleaning needed as updosing tend to push grinds into every nook and cranny.

    Another one is getting about two more shots from a bag of beans.

    I get the occasional sloppy puck if I havent adjusted correctly.

    Ive gone as low as 17g, down from my old mark of 21g.
    Ditto, pretty much exactly.

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, VIC
    Posts
    185

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    Sorry for the extremely late reply guys, have been quite busy over the last couple of weeks,
    and I still havent resolved this issue.

    Is there a way that I can accurately measure the temperature exiting the group head? So then Ill have some figures to report to those at Sunbeam Customer Service.

    Thanks again,

  22. #22
    A_M
    A_M is offline
    Guest
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    6,381

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6C677F7569686A636971060 link=1299667325/20#20 date=1301049204
    Sorry for the extremely late reply guys,* have been quite busy over the last couple of weeks,
    and I still havent resolved this issue.

    Is there a way that I can accurately measure the temperature exiting the group head? So then Ill have some figures to report to those at Sunbeam Customer Service.

    Thanks again,
    Scace it* *;)

    Or at least have the probe up in the shower screen, stable for 10 or 15 min and pull at least 5 shots using a single SB basket (double floor) and data log the temp changes over time.... The CS temp meter / data logger and Andys software is great.

    PS. Publish here first as I would suggest they will be inside the standard temp limits for SB and many others...

    OR

    You could try this....

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1266222481/20#20

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, VIC
    Posts
    185

    Re: Sunbeam EM6910 - Sour Espresso = Temperature Issue?

    Unfortunately, Im unable to log the temp changes over time, as I dont have that kind of equipment at the moment.

    I did however replicate Yashs test, and with the temperature set a default, I achieved a max temperature of 80 degrees.
    Thats approximately 5 degrees shy of the result which Yash attained previously.
    Pushing the temperature up by 4 degrees saw the max increase to 85.

    Would that be considered to be within the suitable range for this machine?


    Thanks,



Similar Threads

  1. Sunbeam EM6910 thermoblock temperature issue.
    By AngusM in forum Brewing Equipment - Midrange ($500-$1500)
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 30th April 2017, 07:13 PM
  2. Yet another Sunbeam em6910 issue
    By tony8028 in forum Brewing Equipment - Midrange ($500-$1500)
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 24th March 2011, 03:03 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •