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Thread: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

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    EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi,

    This has probably been discussed elsewhere but Im having trouble finding an answer to my exact problem. I have an EM6910 that is maybe 3 years old but goes through 1kg of beans / week so has pulled a significant number of shots. Every time, without fail, I pull a shot this filthy white/brown water leaks and sprays from the top/front of the group handle. This lasts for 2-3 seconds and then the coffee comes out as per usual. This even happens with an empty basket as discussed in another thread. I have replaced the rubber seal once before, not sure if thats relevant. Im wondering whether its worth taking the machine in to Sparkys or if there is a part I can buy and replace myself. Sparkys is incredibly inconvenient for me to get to so Id prefer not to have to take it there, especially if it is gone for more than 24 hours.

    Thanks in advance.

    Michael

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    Quote Originally Posted by 504E494F58515C533D0 link=1302410356/0#0 date=1302410356
    I have replaced the rubber seal once before
    How long ago?

    1kg a week is a lot for a 6910.
    2 seals in 3 years?
    Seems it might be time for another new seal.

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    Sounds like it might make sense to consider your problem in 2 halves. First half - dirty water, second half - water spraying/leaking.

    These two might be very much related but if it was me it would make sense to tackle them separately.

    1) Dirty water: remove as much as you can to try to determine where the water is becoming dirty. I.e. remove basket, shower screens, seal and possibly the brass 12mm(?) screw that holds in the anti-drip valve. Press the manual button and see how dirty the water is. Do you get the dirty water through the hot water wand? I wouldnt expect it, but strange things do happen.

    2) Water spraying/leaking: where does your handle sit when you are pulling a shot? If its well past the 90 degree point (pointing directly out from the machine) you may need to consider a new collar. Have you done a collar replacement yet? Sounds like your machine gets a lot of use so this is something i think you should expect to replace. Theres been a lot of talk about this recently because these machines are getting to the 2-4 yr old mark and collars wear out about then, depending on usage of course. Do a quick search and you should see what im talking about.

    All in all, with increased usage comes increased servicing/cleaning. Pull apart as much as you are comfortable doing and clean out coffee scum/crud/oils etc. If youre not that comfortable doing it you might need to drop it into a service centre, be prepared to pay some $$$ tho :(

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    The brown water is only when I have coffee in the PF. In fact its mostly clear, but starts going brown when it integrates with the actual shot. I clean the group head and descale semi regularly but I know I should a lot more frequently.

    The handle sits at 6 o clock, or 5 at the furthest, so it doesnt seem to be too worn. I have not replaced the collar yet.

    I have uploaded a video to YouTube. This shot is a bit over extracted, but it actually sprayed less water than usual. Let me know what you think, perhaps Ill look in to getting another seal if necessary.

    See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8Sz8IvCibA

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    Collar does seem fine from that video. Looks like your problems related to the seal. But before you run out and buy a new one Id recommend cleaning the seat where the seal sits. So unscrew the shower screens, pop out the seal and have a look at the surface that the seal sits in. If its caked with white crud then you should scrub it as clean as you can. I did this recently and needed to put quite an effort into it, the guy at the service centre said its fine to run a flat head screw driver around there to scratch off any caked on stuff. This surface needs to be as smooth and flat as possible to stop leaks once pressurised .

    Check that you are not overdosing with the 5c test too. Overdosing could cause the water pressure splatter out the sides.

    You might also want to wait until AM chimes in too. He seems to be the knowledgeable one around this neck of the woods.

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    How long since you last changed the seal?

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    Hi mivhael,

    Ive just had similar issues with a brand new EM6910 (after about a year with no problems on another EM6910). I agree with the above, but to summarise, I solved mine like this:

    1. Remove shower screen and seal.
    2. Clean everything and check the surfaces the seal will mate with are smooth. Clean as described above.
    3. Check the seal is ok (no obvious splits, little bits missing etc)
    4. Reassemble carefully (put the seal in and run your finger around it to make sure it is seated properly first. Then check the shower screen is fitted properly in the seal before you put the screw in (the screw should just hold everything together, not force the screen into the correct place).
    5. Run with a double floor basket and the rubber disk and check carefully for leaks. IF leaks at this stage, I would first try a new seal (given your collar seems OK) and repeat 3->5.
    6. If no leaks at this stage, do the 5c test to check your dose.

    Good luck. :)

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    From what I could see in the video, it seemed like you may have been overdosing.
    My EM6910 prefers alot more headroom so the showerscreen doesnt imprint immediately on the top of the puck.

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    Quote Originally Posted by 2E253D372B2A28212B33440 link=1302410356/7#7 date=1302488691
    From what I could see in the video, it seemed like you may have been overdosing.
    I agree.

    How long since you last changed the seal?

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    Thats a massive overdose.You want around 7.5 mm of clearance. Notice how your pump started to pulse, big no no. Mine also cops 1 kg / 55 cups per week. My collar is worn but still works fine. Ive never replaced the seal.

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    does pulsing = overdosing?

    I always thought pulsing was related to over-compacting where the pump struggles to maintain the pressure. Please correct me if Im wrong....

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    I am by no means an authority on the subject but lots of prior experience tells me the entire combination of dose / tamp / grind has drastic effect on extraction pressure. If I do the perfect dose using the right grind and tamp my gauge reads just shy of 1 oclock. Using the same grind and tamp and underdosing give me about 11 oclock and overdosing makes it pulse so Im not sure what the reading is, but its past 1. So doing the sweet spot test gives me about 11.30 but my best shots are 12.30 ish. My pucks are a bit sloppy on top but still knock out firm and 1 piece.

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    Thanks everyone. The seal was replaced quite a while ago, maybe 18 months. I will take off the shower screen and do all the cleaning as mentioned and check for any splits in the seal, probably a Saturday job.

    The water spraying out happens with the double floor / blind filter so I wont be able to solve the problem by dosing less, but that will obviously help to prevent this from recurring.

    Also if its relevant I have a Synesso double ridgeless basket and Synesso PF spring. This problem started about 6 weeks after switching to these, but Im not sure if thats related.

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    PS Here is my dosing



    (yeah yeah slightly uneven)



    Everything looks so dirty when its close up

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    Quote Originally Posted by 627C7B7D6A636E610F0 link=1302410356/12#12 date=1302559040
    The seal was replaced quite a while ago, maybe 18 months.
    From memory Sunbeam recommend seal changes about every 12 months.
    That would be at a lower usage than yours.
    I suspect it may be the seal...however....

    Quote Originally Posted by 627C7B7D6A636E610F0 link=1302410356/12#12 date=1302559040
    Also if its relevant I have a Synesso double ridgeless basket and Synesso PF spring. This problem started about 6 weeks after switching to these, but Im not sure if thats related.
    I think this is part of the problem.

    The problem could be partly and old seal and partly your new basket.

    Compare the profile of the Synesso basket to that of the Sunbeam one.
    Ill bet they are shaped a little differently.
    If they are, it may explain why you arent getting a good seal now.

    Have you tried using the old Sunbeam basket again since the problem developed?

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    Get those double floor baskets and chuck them waaayyyyy up the back of the cupboard mate. Only use them to check the sweet spot.

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    Get those double floor baskets and chuck them waaayyyyy up the back of the cupboard mate. Only use them to check the sweet spot.
    I dont think Ive ever put coffee in the double filter basket, just the blind filter someone suggested in another post.

    Have you tried using the old Sunbeam basket again since the problem developed?
    Yes I have used the double floor basket with the blind filter and it didnt hold the water in. Although I think that was with the Synesso spring.

    Will inspect the seal on Saturday.

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    So I took the seal out and had a look at it. There was no visible cracking or stretching so I gave it all a good old clean and put it back together. This did not help. I have found that if I pull the group handle in an upwards manner for the start of the shot it doesnt leak the water. Im convinced that its either the seal or the collar, and can only be determined via trial and error.

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    To get you going again, you can install a thin spacer between the grouphead and seal - cereal packet cardboard works well. Just remove the seal, trace around it then cut out and trim to fit if needed.

    If it still leaks with a new seal installed, you can also install a spacer under the new seal - but this is only a temporary measure until you can get a new grouphead installed.

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    New seal did not help at all. I made a spacer and it now works great. Have a collar on order but theyre not available until the end of July.

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    I found that having a spacer would frequently bust seals. I went through 3 seals while having a spacer. This included both the spacer I made myself and a spacer I bought off ebay. Did the 5c test as well and Im not overdosing.

    Now that my collar has arrived everything is resolved.

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    Just curious, howd you change the seal? I own a 6910 as well and my PF locks in at about 5 oclock so I think I should change mine as well yeah?

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    Seal is really easy to change, you just pull it out with pliers. I cant remember but I think you have to unscrew the shower head first, there is one screw right in the middle when you look up at the group head. You can buy them off Ebay for around $25.

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    Re: EM6910 dirty water spraying from group head

    but if its the collar that needs to be replaced then its harder and more costly. see http://home.exetel.com.au/waz/cs/EM6910_Collar_Replacement_-_How_To.pdf



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