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Thread: Temp surfing

  1. #1
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    Temp surfing

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Could anyone explain what tempreture surfing is? I have read it a lot in relation to the Silvia and wonder what it means, I have tried the search engine but I think I must be doing something wrong as I keep getting no results :-?

  2. #2
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    Re: Temp surfing

    Espresso boiler machines use like a crude temp ranging switch to control temperature, they usually have like a 10-20C switching range, so the heating element in the boiler will stay on till XX, then switch off till it hits its lower range and repeat etc.

    The only problem with that, is extraction will be ideal at usually a more precise range, and the Silvia has as offset group head not directly below the boiler.

    End result is your looking, or in this case surfing, for that sweet spot in the cycling range of the switch, which is where you know the right temps are coming out of your machine to make the best shot.

  3. #3
    brett230873
    Guest

    Re: Temp surfing

    This is customarily where AM chimes in and asks did you set the search time for greater than a week? Heaps of info... Having said that I was very happy with Silvia without temp surfing, even post HX purchase; however, my machine was bought from a retailer that would bench evey machine and check/tune it (is there such a thing?). Good luck.. Give Dr Googe a try failing the CS search feature.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5E454453471B2A0 link=1303385818/0#0 date=1303385818
    Could anyone explain what tempreture surfing is? I have read it a lot in relation to the Silvia and wonder what it means, I have tried the search engine but I think I must be doing something wrong as I keep getting no results :-?

  4. #4
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    Re: Temp surfing

    Quote Originally Posted by 67776071713736353D3236050 link=1303385818/2#2 date=1303390115
    I was very happy with Silvia without temp surfing, even post HX purchase; however, my machine was bought from a retailer that would bench evey machine and check/tune it ...
    I cannot see any situation where any amount of pre-sale "tuning" would have an effect on what temp surfing attempts to correct. Temperature in Silvia (as well as other SBDU machines in this class all the way down the the "economy" machines) is controlled by button ("click") thermostats. These have a wide deadband. The temperature in the boiler swings through a wide range as the thermostat opens and closes the heating circuit. Temp surfing tries to center in on a place where the temperature is closer to "correct" for espresso. This wide swing is why PID additions to Silvia are so popular. It is a well-designed machine with junk thermostats in regards to espresso quality.

  5. #5
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    Re: Temp surfing

    Totally Agree.... tuning a Silvia?????....afraid not.

    You dont do any more than bench test to make sure all the functions are working as intended. Thats it.

    If the client is buying a grinder or brings in his own grinder, then time is spent dialling them in together with the beans to be used.

    After that, temp surfing Silvia is quite easy although I will admit it would seem daunting to a relatively new owner at first.

    I know Ive done atleast a couple of posts on simple temp surfing in here over time but they were done as replies to various posts here and there and not as a topic by itself. If you search anything to do with Silvia you will probably get thousands of posts but will make interesting reading for you and eventally you will dig up stuff on your topic of interest.

    You could also cut to the chase and ask the retailer that sold you the machine.


    Rgrdz,
    Attilio.

  6. #6
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    Re: Temp surfing

    Thanks for the help everyone, as yet I dont have a Silvia but have been researching them and a couple of other machines to replace my old Saeco VV. I have had the Saeco for a number of years but have not been that into the finer points ofhow things work untill now as I want to upgrade. do machines like the Isomac Zaffiro, Vibiemmie Piccolo and Lelit have this same issue with temp? If I dont get the Silvia Im not sure which way to go just yet as I cant afford a $2500 machine.

  7. #7
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    Re: Temp surfing

    The Lelits internals are very close to the Silvia and should have very similar temperature swings.* The Zaffiro/Perfetta/Piccolo level machines have a much bigger boiler and lots more brass in that e61 head which will help smooth things considerably.* I _think_ one or more of them also had tighter band adjustable thermostat(s).

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A716B707768180 link=1303385818/1#1 date=1303389728
    the Silvia has as offset group head not directly below the boiler
    I think, in theory, this is where the Silvia has a slight advantage over the Lelit design.* The offset should help isolate the head a bit from the swings of the boiler body and it allows a longer water path through the brass of the head for better heat transfer and hence temperature stability of the water by the time it reaches the puck.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Temp surfing

    Quote Originally Posted by 45555744534F360 link=1303385818/6#6 date=1303513428
    I think, in theory, this is where the Silvia has a slight advantage over the Lelit design. The offset should help isolate the head a bit from the swings of the boiler body and it allows a longer water path through the brass of the head for better heat transfer and hence temperature stability of the water by the time it reaches the puck.
    I think the Silvias main advantage is its reputation. Both machines have been around for a long-time, the Lelit badged under numerous names.

    Its an interesting theory you have regarding the offset, however, left standing, both machines will sizzle at the group and the fix is the same. Simply draw off enough water to stop the sizzle and away you go!

    :)



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