Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 53

Thread: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    26

    Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi All,

    You may have seen my earlier post about my dying Sunbeam. Well I have decided to put her out of her misery and get a replacement.
    I have poured over these forums to learn as much as possible and have narrowed it down to the following:
    Diadema Perfetta.
    Isomac Zaffiro
    Rancilio Silvia.
    I would have loved a twin boiler of HX machine but its out of my price range, I have a limit of $1600. I am sticking with my current Sunbeam grinder.
    Anywaymy question is are the Diadema and the Isomac really worth the extra money. I have to say I am really sucked in by the way they look but will I gain anything by spending the extra $800 - $1000.

    What I am trying to achieve.......First of I am not a coffee fanatic I appreciate a good coffee but not fanatical about it.
    I am really looking for reliability I dont want to have to replace it after 6 years like my Sunbeam. My wife and I will mainly use it on the weekend for about 4-5 coffees a day each. I would also like to be able to make 4 - 5 in one go if we have visitors.

    Thanks for taking the time to read this and I appreciate any advice you may have. :)

  2. #2
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    445

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Not trying to push it onto you, but any reason why the breville dual boiler isnt on the list ?

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    26

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    The only thing that keeps me away from it is its a breville. When I bought the Sunbeam I thought I was buying a decent machine and I have had a few issues with it. Its made me wary of these type of brands and though I might be better of sticking with a brand that has developed a good reputation over the years.
    I have heard good things about though.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    445

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    I think many of us, including myself felt the same way too, i guess when you think Breville the first thing that comes to mind is "Common mans home appliance"
    And none of us want just a common mans home appliance we want a special tool that creates that magic drink, which does need more than just pushing some hot water through beans, it needs refinement and control..

    Trust me Dasher, i thought the same thing. When i was on the hunt for a machine i thought to myself, its gotta be able to do X, Y and Z, do it well and do it over and over. Im open to any brand, but it needs to be good quality, do X Y and Z, look good on the bench and not burn my wallet.

    I honestly wouldnt rule out the BES900. I have one and I am in no way dissapointed with what I have bought. I drink around 5 cups of coffee per day on average, my gf around 2-3 cause caffine knocks her around bit more.

    To come back to your point, your not a fanatic, well i am and i love this machine so not being a fanatic should make you love it more than me as the results will impress. The quality of the machine is great, have a trawl through the thread here with the owners, Any of them will tell you its a great machine.
    Its really easy to use, continutely repeats amazing cups each time and just an enjoyable experience to use.
    This machine was developed by professionals in the coffee industry and has many features that a full on commercial machine has. Dont compare this machine to the lower end machine cause they are entirely different

    Im in no way saying the other machines wont provide the same or if the BES900 is better or worse.
    But for your budget you can easily pick up the BDB and a smart grinder if your wanted to change to the grinder for less than $1400.
    It is a great machine and like all machines in this class with the correct maintenance i see no reason to not get at least 10 years service from the machine.

  5. #5
    Member chonski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    75

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    If those 3 are the ones on your list...I can comment on the Silvia as I own one...
    For a double or 2 singles at a time I think its great

    With regard to making a few in succession it can do it but just be mindful that it is a slightly more time consuming process.
    You need to re-prime the boiler after steaming and wait for the temperature to re-stabilise. Without a PID theres a bit more guesswork as to when it is ready to roll again but you do learn how to get it done with practice

    Its still a machine Ive been very happy with given the price

    I havent used the other machines but to me the main differences look to be the e61 group head and the fact that the boiler capacities are 2x the Silvia.
    Those differences in theory should give you better temp stability/recovery.

    Perhaps thatll make life a lot easier with making multiple coffees, however Ill leave that for someone who owns one to confirm / deny though* :)

  6. #6
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    445

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    This is 1 thing i liked about the BES900 you can shoot coffee back to back no problem. As you have full control over the temperature also to first crack. You set it between 85-96c. But ive shot 6 coffees back to back and all turned out really great, only difference was how much attention i paid to froffing milk

  7. #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    26

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Hmmm your starting to convince me where is the best place to get the Breville these days online or the old fashioned way?

  8. #8
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    PRL
    Posts
    2,699

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by 4164766D6077050 link=1334362022/0#0 date=1334362022
    I would have loved a twin boiler of HX machine but its out of my price range, I have a limit of $1600. I am sticking with my current Sunbeam grinder.
    Id be tempted to ask some pros about whether your Sunbeam grinder might under-perform relative to your new machine. In which case spending $500 of your budget on your grinder might get you a better overall result.

  9. #9
    Senior Member DavidW1960's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Kariong NSW
    Posts
    545

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Theres a second hand near new BES900 in the for sale section here - 2 year warranty - $900 I think was the last price.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    1,275

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by 0623312A2730420 link=1334362022/0#0 date=1334362022
    I am really looking for reliability I dont want to have to replace it after 6 years like my Sunbeam. :)
    Ref the above.
    Make sure you read all the threads & reviews ( use Google) before you get convinced what to buy.
    There are other good Hx m/cs in your price range including the Expobar Office and the NS Oscar, to name but 2 !

  11. #11
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    445

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Im not saying get a BES900, but i asked why you didnt include it and you said because of the tainted branding and for that reason i suggested it. Its in a league of its own compared to any of the lower class breville machines. There is also a good reason why many Coffeesnobs on here have them,

    Also the advice given above about grinders definately consider it highly on your list. Id scratch the grinder you have and dedicate some of your funds to the machine, after all having a good machine is pointless if your putting bad grind in.

    Think of it like a car, if you had a nice car, but run it on poor fuel, it would do an ok job, but wouldnt be performiing at its best,

    Investing in a good grinder is just as important as the machine. For example if you did pick up a used BES900 and you spent around $600 on a grinder youd be making very good quality coffee and definately reconsider ever wanting to going to 90% of the cafes out there.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Bosco_Lever's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    QLD
    Posts
    442

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Dasher,
    Do you want new or second hand?
    If 2nd hand, there are plenty of good HX machines and grinders out there.
    For your budget you can buy a used commercial machine and grinder that will outlast and outperform any of the above mentioned machines.
    It all depends on how much room you have in the kitchen, what "look" you are going for, and what appeals to you.
    As an example:
    These are big units, but will outlast everything.
    Boema 1 group. [prices vary, from $500 up, depending on condition]
    Gino Rossi grinder. [$400 for a good 2nd hand unit , $800 new]
    Boema are Australian made workhorses. Parts are readily available, they are easy to repair, and technicians will come out to your house to repair these, they will not for domestic units.
    Quite a few people have or have had these units, including the site owner.

  13. #13
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    26

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by 3D3B27393C233F3E500 link=1334362022/7#7 date=1334368320
    Quote Originally Posted by 4164766D6077050 link=1334362022/0#0 date=1334362022
    I would have loved a twin boiler of HX machine but its out of my price range, I have a limit of $1600. I am sticking with my current Sunbeam grinder.
    Id be tempted to ask some pros about whether your Sunbeam grinder might under-perform relative to your new machine. In which case spending $500 of your budget on your grinder might get you a better overall result.
    I am sure there are better grinders out there however as the Sunbeam isnt working at all I figure this is the weakest link* :)

    I am sure you guys are all right about a better grinder giving better results but at this stage I do not have permission from the boss for that. I will get the best coffee machine and re negotiate later. I have found you need to plan your strategies sometimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by 14312639340761696660500 link=1334362022/8#8 date=1334369813
    Theres a second hand near new BES900 in the for sale section here - 2 year warranty - $900 I think was the last price.
    Thanks for that, the Breville does look like an impressive unit.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2324313E33500 link=1334362022/11#11 date=1334380929
    Do you want new or second hand?
    If 2nd hand, there are plenty of good HX machines and grinders out there.
    I have no objections to a secondhand machine if they are in good condition in fact I am a big fan or pre loved items. How do the older H/X etc machines hold up if they have been looked after?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2324313E33500 link=1334362022/11#11 date=1334380929
    For your budget you can buy a used commercial machine and grinder that will outlast and outperform any of the above mentioned machines.
    That would be nice but I have a small kitchen so a big domestic size is all the space I have.

    Maybe someone out there can clear something up that I am still a little confused about. I watched a vid on you tube about the Rancilio Silvia and they said it takes about three minutes to go from brew to steam. Do all single boilers take this much time as thats a looong time and will be a pain in the a.ss. since we always have milk?





  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    395

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    You say you want a HX/multiple boiler, yet youve overlooked one of the simplest no frills model on the market, IE, the NS Oscar. Its pretty solidly constructed (or so they say, Ive never actually seen one in the flesh) and is a steal at a tad under $1300 (which enables you to get a better grinder if your wanting to bargain with the missus)

    Failing that, theres always something out of left Field (the PV Lusso) which is a HX style Lever machine (or even the export, for a smaller footprint if space is an issue, not that the Lusso is a big machine anyway) for I believe, a smidgen over 1500.

    Sorry, More choice isnt always a good option, I know

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    1,275

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by 0227352E2334460 link=1334362022/12#12 date=1334396356
    Maybe someone out there can clear something up that I am still a little confused about. I watched a vid on you tube about the Rancilio Silvia and they said it takes about three minutes to go from brew to steam. Do all single boilers take this much time as thats a looong time and will be a pain in the a.ss. since we always have milk?
    No, the Silvia can be steaming milk ( @ 120 C)..within 1 min of pulling a shot. !
    They mean it can take 3 mins before the steam thermostat switches off @ 145C .
    This is one advantage of a digital temp gauge...so you know what temp the boiler is at !
    I you go for a Silvia, get the PID version.

  16. #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    26

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D40544649484F46605567405544210 link=1334362022/13#13 date=1334403544
    You say you want a HX/multiple boiler, yet youve overlooked one of the simplest no frills model on the market, IE, the NS Oscar.
    I have seen this one and from what I hear its a great unit. The only problem is its too ugly with too much plastic. I know its stupid but if I am going to spend a bit of cash on a decent machine I dont want it to look like it came from Big W.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D40544649484F46605567405544210 link=1334362022/13#13 date=1334403544
    Failing that, theres always something out of left Field (the PV Lusso) which is a HX style Lever machine
    These things scare me. I am no expert when it comes to making coffee and I am not sure I am up to this.
    Thanks for suggestions none the less.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D40544649484F46605567405544210 link=1334362022/13#13 date=1334403544
    Sorry, More choice isnt always a good option, I know
    I had a laugh thats true but I must admit I really enjoy the pre purchase phase so I dont mind looking around.

    Quote Originally Posted by 434D444F451413210 link=1334362022/14#14 date=1334409256
    No, the Silvia can be steaming milk ( @ 120 C)..within 1 min of pulling a shot. !
    That makes more sense considering they are so popular I was surprised by the three minute time.

    Thanks to the suggestions above I have considered a few others:

    Breville BES900
    Lelit PL60T Dual Boiler - Cant find many reviews?
    Was also considering the Izzo Vivi from Chris but being in Melbourne has become a problem.
    I cant help but keep going back to the Diadema Perfetta.

    I think the question is how much of a hindrance is a single boiler with lattes. It will be mainly used on the weekend for the two of us. To be honest I never steamed the milk at the same time as pulling a shot with the Sunbeam, I am not that advanced,but i didnt have to wait either.

    Two more questions if you dont mind.

    Sure a dual boiler of HX would be nice for milk styles but does it have to be a deal breaker?

    what are your thoughts on second hand? I notice a new add for a 6 year old machine in Melbourne. Being that I want to get ten years out of my next machine this would put this at 16 years old at the end. Will a second hand item live that long?

    I suppose my point is sure its a better machine but is a mild inconvenience of a single boiler worth the trade off of an older machine, does that make sense?

    Cheers



  17. #17
    Senior Member David8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Annerley, QLD
    Posts
    559

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Hi Dasher, I own a perfetta, and love it. I bought it second hand, I havent had it that long, so cant comment on its lifespan. But so far, aside from needing a few seals replaced, there have been no problems.

    I only drink lattes, or picollos, so always need milk. I dont find its a huge problem at all. Its nice to have that time to wipe down the grinder and bench. Dry the jug (if needed), fill with milk and youre ready to go. That way there is very little cleaning once the coffee is prepared. Because then, I just want to enjoy the coffee. :) Which, from the perfetta, is fantastic. And it steams like a tank as well!!

  18. #18
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    445

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Your going to need to look at a robust machine then.. It have no doubts that any of the machines or at least the 900 could last 10 years with some TLC and proper maintenace and provided there is no electrical faults (which can apply to any electrical appliance) i doubt the mechanics would fail.

    However 5 coffees per day x 7 days (1week)= 35cups a week x 4 (1month) = 140cups a month x 12 (1 year) = 1680 cups a year * 10 (10 years) = 16800 Cups that you are prepared to accept no less than. I remember somewhere someone saying Breville punched 15,000 cups through the 900 and kept going no worries.


  19. #19
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    26

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by 4C697E616C30080 link=1334362022/16#16 date=1334490689
    I only drink lattes, or picollos, so always need milk. I dont find its a huge problem at all.
    I thought it was probably not too big an issue, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4C697E616C30080 link=1334362022/16#16 date=1334490689
    Because then, I just want to enjoy the coffee. Which, from the perfetta, is fantastic
    I havent heard to many bad things about this machine.


    However 5 coffees per day x 7 days (1week)= 35cups a week x 4 (1month) = 140cups a month x 12 (1 year) = 1680 cups a year * 10 (10 years) = 16800 Cups that you are prepared to accept no less than. I remember somewhere someone saying Breville punched 15,000 cups through the 900 and kept going no worries.

    With me working and the wife not knowing how to use the machine it will only be used on weekends, (I try not to drink coffee after 5.00pm). It will not have a hard life so I hope it will last.

  20. #20
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Espresso machine longevity is a combination of hygeine and good practice.

    Water quality is critical as is backwashing. When a machines is looked after, it should have a long life. There will however be things to replace along the way. That said, there are 50yo machines still producing fantastic coffee.

    I have seen immaculate 10yo machines and train wreck 18 month old machines. Somewhat surprisingly, they dont always match to my perception of the level of care youd think the owners would show their machine. Just goes to show... ::)

    Key*things to keep in mind:
    *Dont leave it on 24/7
    *Do learn how to prime the boiler of all single boiler machines. Ignore at your own risk- and ultimately, at significant expense.

    I too think you should be looking at the Breville as its a good match to your budget.

    Chris

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,048

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by 03363B3C08143831313232570 link=1334362022/19#19 date=1334531657
    When a machines is looked after, it should have a long life. There will however be things to replace along the way
    Chris, out of curiosity, how would you rate availability of parts and ease of servicing (ie. cost) of a well looked after "electronics" machine such as the 900, vs a well looked after "more, but not entirely, mechanical" machine such as an E61? Or am I opening old threads again? (Sorry I dont read much of the Breville threads).

    Im hoping this would help Dasher find a machine that would easily last more than 6 years.

    For example (and Ive only ever looked inside two espresso machines in my life) I can fairly easily work on and replace parts in my Giotto, but I struggled to pull my Breville apart and find space for anything. Having said that, my Breville isnt a 900 so I dont know what they look like inside.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    445

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    hey talk_coffee.

    I noticed you mention dont leave it ov 24/7. I dont leave mine on 24/7 as i dont drink coffee at night but some days my machine could stay on for 2-4 even upto 6 hours in one sitting, of course it has that power saver mode and that always kicks in, it never sits there HOT and ready to go for that whole time.

    But im just interested as to why you shouldnt.... Some Cafes would leave there machine on from 5am till midnight. i realise we are talking domestic vs commercial.

  23. #23
    Senior Member DavidW1960's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Kariong NSW
    Posts
    545

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    I burnt out a few boilers on my old Saeco because I was leaving it on all day. I asked the same question about the Breville but havent got a reply. Im guessing for the Breville BDB its not an issue.

  24. #24
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,435

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    I would say the main issue with leaving machines on "all day" is that the if the boiler runs dry (eg dripping steam tap), it will burn the element out, mainly single boiler machines.

    I wouldnt think this would be an issue on machines that have auto fill. Eg my Faema fills the boiler from the tank by itself if its low, and if the water tank is low on water and the boiler needs filling it turns the element off.

    Cheers

  25. #25
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    445

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Ah yeah makes sense then.

    When the BDB goes into Sleep mode (flashy power light, you know wat i mean) You can hear the pump running at times, i assume its restocking the boiler ?

    I come back wake the machie up and temp will have dropped however much, but heats back up within 1-5 minutes.

  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,048

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by 7945445F594848431C1E2D0 link=1334362022/24#24 date=1334544190
    When the BDB goes into Sleep mode (flashy power light, you know wat i mean) You can hear the pump running at times
    Sounds like a lower-power mode. It probably turns off some elements and lowers the boiler temp, while still filling it if necessary. Elements are still switching on and off and current is still flowing.

    The only thing I can think of on "auto fill" machines is electronics lifetime. SSRs, elements, thermostats, pressurestats, capacitors, etc will all have a maximum lifetime or number of cycles. If you only used the machine for 4 hours a day instead of 24, you could potentially increase the electronics lifetime by 6 times (assuming its linear), however there are other factors like cold starting, lower power modes, and some components like being on (heat keeps away moisture and hence rust). The more machines you see a day the more real-world idea you have - I only see one ;)

  27. #27
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    445

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    well that is a good point too and what my train of thinking was..

    If i was to let the machine go into sleep mode/low power (i cant remember what its called) and it does keep the elements to a certain warmth, surely that would improve the life of the machine.

    I realise everything has a life span on it, but i guess like those British cabs if they keep them running non stop to keep them warm, surely same could apply to the machine, If you keep it warm and the critical components cool, lubricated, clean etc etc surely it would last longer than warming machine up, then letting it cool when turning off, then up and down ?

    Im unsure...
    I have a feeling the BDB has that low power mode for this reason so you can swtich it on, leave it on all day then turn it off at night (or when you not use it for longer period)
    It will switch off entirely after 4 hours being untouched.

    I think if your machine doesnt have a low power mode tho and just leave it on ready to shoot coffee 24/7 then i can see the issue. The boilers are getting full power for no reason, then again if the pump primes and keeps water upto the boiler, surely then it would be ok too as the element wouldnt burning without water around it ?

    Any coffee machine technicians here care to enlighten us ?

  28. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,048

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    this may be getting into the trees and blocking our view of the forest, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by 053938232534343F6062510 link=1334362022/26#26 date=1334546051
    If i was to let the machine go into sleep mode/low power (i cant remember what its called) and it does keep the elements to a certain warmth, surely that would improve the life of the machine.
    I dont think so, the control board is still on, caps and resistors are wearing out, and some parts are switching and hence degrading

    I realise everything has a life span on it, but i guess like those British cabs if they keep them running non stop to keep them warm, surely same could apply to the machine, If you keep it warm and the critical components cool, lubricated, clean etc etc surely it would last longer than warming machine up, then letting it cool when turning off, then up and down ?
    again, I think a car is different because the engine parts change shape as they heat up, which is why youre supposed to warm up a car and treat it gently while its cool, although modern alloys and production are reducing the impact. A car is designed to be the right shape when its hot.

    Im unsure...
    I have a feeling the BDB has that low power mode for this reason so you can swtich it on, leave it on all day then turn it off at night (or when you not use it for longer period)
    It will switch off entirely after 4 hours being untouched.
    I think the 4 hour off timer is there for exactly that reason - thats probably about the time want to start saving lifetime of your components vs having it ready in 5 minutes.

    I think if your machine doesnt have a low power mode tho and just leave it on ready to shoot coffee 24/7 then i can see the issue. The boilers are getting full power for no reason, then again if the pump primes and keeps water upto the boiler, surely then it would be ok too as the element wouldnt burning without water around it ?
    I think lower-power modes are simply to save your energy bill, and so the competitor doesnt claim rediculous figures like "one tenth the operating cost of our competitor". Pumps are electric motors, and they die for two reasons: 1. overloading, and 2. use (which is a sub-category of overloading but not so bad...) The elements dont do much but corrode, its the switches that turn them on and off that will only last 100,000 times or so.

    Any coffee machine technicians here care to enlighten us ?
    not me, just a wannabe :)

  29. #29
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    445

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    so u reckon after each use, if its not used within 30 minutes, then switch it off... So if i have another coffee say in 1 hour, then go through the warm up process again ?

    Its really no issue to do that.

  30. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,048

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Id say longer than 30 minutes - somewhere up to 4 hours as suggested by its own off-timer setting. I dont think .5 - 4 hours really matters too much, when compared to 24 hour run times.

  31. #31
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    445

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    porbably no different.

  32. #32
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    26

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    just thought I would give a quick update as to where I am at now.
    Well somehow I have extended my budget to around $2000. Not really sure how that happened :o.

    I will keep you posted on the outcome.

  33. #33
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    1,275

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by 240113080512600 link=1334362022/31#31 date=1334618644
    Well somehow I have extended my budget to around $2000. Not really sure how that happened :o..
    Ahh ! .. sounds like a advanced case of upgraditice creep. ! ;D

  34. #34
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,048

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Forgive me for not re-reading the whole thread! Youll really find it hard to beat the Breville BDB for its price. Do you need to go higher? Maybe, but its a big step. You could consider the Izzo Vivi at demo pricing or Lelit dual boiler (perhaps a sideways step) but you probably want a better grinder too.

    I would say a demo K3P would be a great way of using your extra budget, or perhaps a mazzer or macap if you want a bit more bling. You could even buy the K3P and 2nd hand BDB and saved the extra $800 for later.

    Youre talking serious money, so its worth ringing someone local who can show you all/most of the machines mentioned in this thread as theres bound to be something youll only notice "in the flesh" (or "in the steel"!)

  35. #35
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    26

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by 747C7473797F1D0 link=1334362022/33#33 date=1334621829
    Youll really find it hard to beat the Breville BDB for its price.* Do you need to go higher?
    Do I need to go higher....of course not!
    Do we ever need to go higher, nicer car, new TV.

    Quote Originally Posted by 747C7473797F1D0 link=1334362022/33#33 date=1334621829
    You could consider the Izzo Vivi at demo pricing
    Looks like a great deal, unfortunately they are in Sydney so probably wont happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by 747C7473797F1D0 link=1334362022/33#33 date=1334621829
    but you probably want a better grinder too.
    Yep the grinder....I have permission to buy a coffee machine but not a new grinder. I understand everyone will say the improvements will be dramatic. The wife wont go for it all I hear is "your grinder is brand new". So I figure I will get the best coffee machine I can afford and work on the grinder in the back ground. It all comes down to strategy ;)





  36. #36
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,048

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1134263D3027550 link=1334362022/34#34 date=1334622556
    Do I need to go higher....of course not!
    Do we ever need to go higher, nicer car, new TV.
    It was rhetorical, hence the "maybe"! But seriously, this is an important question, and only one you can answer. TBH a well-looked after machine can last (as Chris says) easily 50 years, but (not diminishing their build or shot quality) I doubt you could get parts for a BDB in 50 years. This is partly why I went for a stainless steel "traditional" E61 HX. Its all commonnly available tubes, switches, etc. Even the (minute) control board could be replaced by a different model so long as it can operate the pump and valves at the right time. I could count the number of wires on one-hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1134263D3027550 link=1334362022/34#34 date=1334622556
    unfortunately they are in Sydney
    shame, where are you? still worth going into a good shop with an appointment if you can.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1134263D3027550 link=1334362022/34#34 date=1334622556
    I have permission to
    ask for forgiveness, not permission ;D erm, I hear the sunbeam isnt compatible with a HX because, um, the stator-phase-rotor flux capacitor isnt the right colour. Either that or every HX comes with a free K3P (except that the HX is $400 more expensive than advertised). At least keep $400 out of your budget for a K3P later.

    And dont forget water filter system (plumbed in is best) for $100ish, tamper, knock box, cleaning solution, brush & mirofibre cloths.

  37. #37
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    26

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by 565E56515B5D3F0 link=1334362022/35#35 date=1334625601
    ask for forgiveness, not permission * erm, I hear the sunbeam isnt compatible with a HX because, um, the stator-phase-rotor flux capacitor isnt the right colour.* Either that or every HX comes with a free K3P (except that the HX is $400 more expensive than advertised).* At least keep $400 out of your budget for a K3P later.
    I had a laugh - Its all under control. To get the machine I have used my Christmas and birthday presents up until 2020. Soon she will forget and then I re use them to get the grinder.

    Quote Originally Posted by 565E56515B5D3F0 link=1334362022/35#35 date=1334625601
    And dont forget water filter system (plumbed in is best) for $100ish, tamper, knock box, cleaning solution, brush & mirofibre cloths.
    Damn will you stop making it harder and harder. :)


  38. #38
    Senior Member David8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Annerley, QLD
    Posts
    559

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by 0227352E2334460 link=1334362022/36#36 date=1334632621
    Quote Originally Posted by 565E56515B5D3F0 link=1334362022/35#35 date=1334625601
    ask for forgiveness, not permission * erm, I hear the sunbeam isnt compatible with a HX because, um, the stator-phase-rotor flux capacitor isnt the right colour.* Either that or every HX comes with a free K3P (except that the HX is $400 more expensive than advertised).* At least keep $400 out of your budget for a K3P later.
    I had a laugh - Its all under control. To get the machine I have used my Christmas and birthday presents up until 2020. Soon she will forget and then I re use them to get the grinder.
    Love your work. :)

    Quote Originally Posted by 0227352E2334460 link=1334362022/36#36 date=1334632621
    Quote Originally Posted by 565E56515B5D3F0 link=1334362022/35#35 date=1334625601
    And dont forget water filter system (plumbed in is best) for $100ish, tamper, knock box, cleaning solution, brush & mirofibre cloths.
    Damn will you stop making it harder and harder.* :)
    Another point for the perfetta: it has a built in filter, which sits in the tank. I then use a regular Brita filter jug to filter water before filling the tank.

  39. #39
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,435

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Good idea about using up the next 8 birthdays!! Hopefully your wifes memory is not as good as mine!

    Also, dont mix up water filtering and water softening (ie anti scale), they are different and the brita jugs dont do much for preventing scale.

    Cheers

  40. #40
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,048

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by 193C2E35382F5D0 link=1334362022/36#36 date=1334632621
    Quote Originally Posted by 565E56515B5D3F0 link=1334362022/35#35 date=1334625601
    And dont forget water filter system (plumbed in is best) for $100ish, tamper, knock box, cleaning solution, brush & mirofibre cloths.
    Damn will you stop making it harder and harder.* :)
    well, you have to protect your investment now:

    water filter - contact Bernard (or someone) at Bombora and tell him youre a snob.* Hell supply all fittings you need to go from your under-sink plumbing to either a filtered water tap (supplied), or 3-way mixer (hot, cold, filtered) like I installed at home.* Bunnings has these mixers for under $200, Reece has them for over $600, etc.

    As mentioned, for the machine, its all about scale reduction.* I downloaded water utility reports and sent them to Bernard and he pre-set the filter for my conditions.* If you dont have such nice water as the tropics, you can get chlorine and particle filters as well.

    tamper get the best fitting one you can afford, ask the supplier whats best for the baskets you have (convex, flat, size, etc).* Pullmans are great, but you can get others that are close.

    knock box beats spooning it into the bin:
    http://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/shop/p/coffee-knock-bin-black/
    http://shop.talkcoffee.com.au/collections/knock-boxes/products/concept-art-mini-knock-box


    backflush solution for weekends:
    http://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/shop/p/clean-machine-powder-500g/
    http://shop.talkcoffee.com.au/products/clean-machine-backflush-powder


    brush your [s]teeth[/s] grouphead:
    http://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/shop/p/group-head-brush/
    http://shop.talkcoffee.com.au/products/pallo-grinder-brush


    mirofibre cloths for cleaning the milk frother and s/steel:
    http://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/shop/p/barista-portafilter-and-milk-cloths-orange-blue/
    (see bunnings again)


    [media]cocoa shaker [/media]for covering up bad latte art:
    http://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/shop/p/chocolate-shaker-stainless-steel/


    and whatever else:
    http://www.jetblackespresso.com.au/shop/ac/coffee-accessories/
    http://shop.talkcoffee.com.au/
    (and other sponsors on the left)

  41. #41
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    445

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    is there any way to get more of a removable water softener ? I live in a rental and dont want to leave them with any investments

  42. #42
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6854554E485959520D0F3C0 link=1334362022/40#40 date=1334644643
    is there any way to get more of a removable water softener ? I live in a rental and dont want to leave them with any investments
    This way: http://clean-machine.com.au/Benchtop-Filter-System-inc-CFS117R-Softening-Filter-5-Mic.html

  43. #43
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,048

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Ive heard that jug filters dont remove scale, which is your biggest machine-killer.

    I own/live in my house, so I chose to install an undersink one, however after having done so, it was quite easy and I could easily reverse it. About the same difficulty as replacing tap washers, but more of them!

    If you already have a dishwasher and sink mixer, you can get the aforementioned 3-way mixer so you dont have to add any extra holes, and you can get a dishwasher 3-way T-piece with backflow prevention so it goes mains > T piece > dishwasher, and T piece > filter > mixer. Other options can T off the cold mixer mains.

    The filter itself is a fair-sized plastic thing that hangs off a universal fitting Ive installed with two wood screws into the inside of my cupboard. This can go on the under-top, side, or back of your sink cupboard. You could plug those holes with white spack filler and no one would notice. The tubing is all flexible hose and push-fit connectors, and with cable tidies this can be kept out of the way of the bin etc.

    Most of the cost was in the filter and the mixer (the old one is in the shed). The connections and tubes were minimal and I wouldnt mind leaving them for the next person.

    YMMV - be careful with plumbing as I wouldnt want you to be liable for springing a leak!

  44. #44
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    445

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    The one that Talk cof is mentioning isnt a jug, its inline but connects to your tap rather than inline.

    I can only assume they would use the same filters as the inline, except come in a different case.

    i sent them an email about those particular models and im thinking of getting one....

    Anyway else used one or got one ? Wat about you talk coffee have you personally seen/used one... Do they live upto the job ?

    btw iain, we have a mixer and thats it, not dish washer

  45. #45
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,048

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    you can tee off the mixer inlet as well, but yes on of those bench-top types looks the real deal. The only disadadvantage I can see (beyond having it visible) is that you cant easily chain up multiple filters, which is sometimes needed (chlorine, sediment, ion-replacement, etc) depending on your area. Although I think you can get the multiple filters all-in-one these days, not sure.

    Anyway, definitely listen to what Bombora say, especially if you can find a water quality report from your area, then they can tell you exactly what you need.

  46. #46
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    445

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    yeah i emailed Bombora yesty and got very quick responses, i think ill go for the polish metal benchtop model that you attach to the tap.

    I dont think its economical to make the water THAT pure, but for the small cost to purify the water as much as the benchtop models too i think its worth it.

  47. #47
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    1,048

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    yeah, scale reduction is necessary, but the rest is for flavour I think, which Im still improving just based on technique, so Im leaving the extra filters a bit longer ;)

  48. #48
    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    2,130

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    I think this thread is wandering way off into OT territory.
    Water quality is very important, the OP has been given some options to consider.
    Q&A about water options (unless from the OP) belong in another thread.

  49. #49
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    26

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Hi everyone,

    Just wanted to thank you all for taking the time to offer your advice. I ended going with the VBM Domobar Junior, I hope it will serve me well.

    Quote Originally Posted by 41465345485E78161E1E1E270 link=1334362022/47#47 date=1334711685
    I think this thread is wandering way off into OT territory.
    Water quality is very important, the OP has been given some options to consider.
    Q&A about water options (unless from the OP) belong in another thread.
    I am sure this has wondered off topic but I have found it valuable as the water filter set up would have been my next thread. :)

  50. #50
    Senior Member Thirteen13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    445

    Re: Oh No not another help me pick a machine thread!

    Sounds great ? Any particular reasons why?



Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Izzo Vivi PID machine- discussion thread
    By TC in forum Brewing Equipment - Pointy End ($1500-$3000)
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 26th July 2016, 11:40 AM
  2. Izzo Alex PID HX machine- discussion thread
    By TC in forum Brewing Equipment - Extreme Machines ($3000+)
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 23rd October 2011, 10:18 AM
  3. Yet another machine advice thread...
    By jeffk in forum Brewing Equipment - Pointy End ($1500-$3000)
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 9th July 2009, 10:30 AM
  4. Need help to pick a machine
    By tysson in forum Brewing Equipment - Entry level (sub $500)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 26th June 2009, 08:53 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •