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Thread: Naked portafilter EM 6910

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    Rbn
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    Naked portafilter EM 6910

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I am not sure where to put this one.

    I cut out the bottom of a portafilter to create a bottomless one.
    However, the espresso seems to splash around and go where I don't want it, making a bit of a mess.

    I guess my grind is wrong, the espresso does not seem to be as thick as it should be.

    What do I need to do?

    And, a silly question I guess.
    What difference does having a naked portafilter make, apart from a mess! In my case.

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    Hi Rawill,
    Naked is naked in more ways than one
    Nowhere to hide... but it will inspire you to perfect your dosing and tamping! Practice makes perfect, even if it is a bit messyy

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    Senior Member Journeyman's Avatar
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    How much of the bottom did you cut out? If you look upwards, does the hole expose ALL the filter holes? It needs to do that - if the hole is less in diameter than the diameter of the pattern of holes in the filter, the coffee will be hitting the metal on the way out in the first stages and splashing.

    But more likely is a need to work on consistency and correct Grind, Dose, Tamp. Get them right and the flow almost instantly becomes one central stream that doesn't splash anywhere. On occasion you might get 2 or 3 VERY BRIEF streams that almost immediately amalgamate into the central one.

    Watch the pour from beneath - where the coffee is coming from gives you clues as to what you might be getting wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Journeyman View Post

    Watch the pour from beneath - where the coffee is coming from gives you clues as to what you might be getting wrong.
    Not too close or you may get a shot of coffee in the eye.

    Barry
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    Rbn
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    Well thank you very much people.

    I will be careful not to look too closely!

    Yes I have uncovered all the holes, I am using a single dose cup, I might try using a double as an experiment.
    All the holes are uncovered with the two cup as well.

    I figured some might me to get my grinding, dosing, tamping right!
    As I wondered if that might be the issue.

    Again, thank you.

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    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry_Duncan View Post
    Not too close or you may get a shot of coffee in the eye.

    Barry
    You say that as if it's a bad thing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by rawill View Post
    Yes I have uncovered all the holes, I am using a single dose cup, I might try using a double as an experiment.
    All the holes are uncovered with the two cup as well.

    I figured some might me to get my grinding, dosing, tamping right!
    As I wondered if that might be the issue.
    Hi Rawill

    Some quick points:-
    1) What baskets are you using? I have a few that spray everywhere as a no cost option... including one whole set of SB 6910 originals.
    2) What do you mean by a single / double dose cup? A naked is open at the bottom so anything under that to hold the coffee is OK. See things coffee (site sponsor) website
    Things Coffee | Pullman Tamper, Coffee Tamper, VST Filter Basket, VST Refractometer, Hottop, Coffee Roaster, KN-8828B-2
    and hopefully that is what yours now looks like!
    3) As identified, nowhere to hide. Your grinding, dosing & tamping are critical. Journeyman's "my new machine" has a fair bit of info about that...
    4) All things being equal (looks up for pigs) a double basket is easier to dial in initially. Singles are more hairtrigger on a naked and are much harder to sort first.

    Have fun experimenting

    TampIt

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    Rbn
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    I will check the link, and do more reading and experimenting.

    i am using the single walled, single basket that came with the coffee machine.

    Sorry for the use of incorect terms.

    And yes my naked portafilter looks like the one in the link now, except there is an internal lip on the bottom maybe about 3 mm around the circumference.

    However I will be trying a finer grind, as I believe, my Bar Aroma CG 450 is not grinding fine enough.
    It needs the second mod to get it finer.

    I can see "bubbling", with a normal 2 spout Portfilter.

    I just had a try with the double basket on the naked P/F, it is a lot better than with the single basket, a single stream shortly after the start, but still a few splashes.

    Maybe I should try taking a video, and get you guys to check it out.

    Many thanks

    Robin

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    Senior Member mwcalder05's Avatar
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    Hey Robin,

    It is often said that the single filter baskets are quite inconsistent and hard to use. I haven't seen one in a naked PF so I can't comment but from what you're saying it sounds that way. Unfortunately, to get consistency and great coffee, a double filter basket is most helpful which seems wasteful for some but completely worth it to others.

    It may also be worthwhile upgrading to a VST basket/s. From personal experience on my 6910, the 22g has changed my coffee at home quite a lot. But to get rid of the mess, concentrate on distribution of the coffee and how even your tamp is . After all, no fancy equipment can repair poor technique.

    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwcalder05 View Post
    Hey Robin,

    It is often said that the single filter baskets are quite inconsistent and hard to use. I haven't seen one in a naked PF so I can't comment but from what you're saying it sounds that way. Unfortunately, to get consistency and great coffee, a double filter basket is most helpful which seems wasteful for some but completely worth it to others.

    It may also be worthwhile upgrading to a VST basket/s. From personal experience on my 6910, the 22g has changed my coffee at home quite a lot. But to get rid of the mess, concentrate on distribution of the coffee and how even your tamp is . After all, no fancy equipment can repair poor technique.

    Mike
    Hi Mike

    I fully agree with VST 7g singles in a naked being hard to use, however they are a model of consistency if your grinder & technique is up to it. Most VST issues seem to come down to one or the other: "nowhere to hide". FWIW, Jim Schulman now seems to think singles can give better coffee, so I am not alone in that thought...

    Grinder: VST's hate excessive fines & stale grinds.

    I have no experience with Robin's grinder, however a cheap conical will generally give a better result than a cheap flat burr (less fines at the "VST finer espresso grind" end of things). Lucky Robin!

    "no fancy equipment can repair poor technique" Wow. Nailed it. Much more direct than I have seen.

    Hope this helps,

    TampIt

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    Rbn
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    Well, I am going to persist with my grinder, and try to get my tamping, dosing technique a bit more sorted.

    But I have put on a bid on the Sunbeam coffee grinder EM0480 that is recommended to go with the EM6910.
    My son has this grinder and it seems to do a good job.

    So we will see what transpires.

    thank you all for your interest.

    Robin

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    Hi Mike and Tampit

    If i get two VST baskets, to replace the standard 6910 baskets I guess I would get a 7 and a 22.
    If I am wrong please correct me.

    I only make a coffee for myself in the morning, hence using the single basket, maybe it is a 7 in VST baskets, or is it more like 11, half of a 22.
    And of course, if buying one basket for me, I might as well buy another for the times I make coffees for guests.

    Robin

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    For what its worth i have an 18g VST in my em6910 and it was perfect size. Iw anted a bigger one but was swayed because i drink those myself and can split if need be. I wouldn't be assed changing the baskets all the time as they are quite a tight fit.

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    Senior Member mwcalder05's Avatar
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    Hey Robin,

    This is something that comes to personal opinion and I can't answer for you! However, I would say definitely for the 22g. Strictly speaking, this is in fact a triple shot basket. But i think it works best for splitting. So the single..for me personally I would purchase the next basket size up from the 7 which is 15 because I prefer a bigger, fuller flavor, especially with a low end grinder. Not too sure if the VST 7g baskets fix the dreaded single shot basket inconsistency.

    If you do purchase the 22 or 15, make sure you purchase ridgless! I don't think there's a choice with the 7g

    Thanks
    Michael

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    Senior Member mwcalder05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcism View Post
    I wouldn't be assed changing the baskets all the time as they are quite a tight fit.
    Did you get ridged or ridgless? Because mine are quite easy to change over in my 6910.

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    I use the 22 (dose 26g) to make two "doubles", and the 15g (dose 18-19g) to make one large extra strength coffee for one.

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    Senior Member mwcalder05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfalz View Post
    I use the 22 (dose 26g) to make two "doubles", and the 15g (dose 18-19g) to make one large extra strength coffee for one.
    Dose 26?? How does that even fit?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwcalder05 View Post
    Dose 26?? How does that even fit?!
    EM7000 has a higher shower head than E61/commercial/high end domestic machines. ~2mm maybe for 4g difference in dose. EM6910, only going from the Greg Davies instructional DVD, may be even higher (or might be about the same).

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    Senior Member Journeyman's Avatar
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    I need a better set of scales - the only ones I have go to max of 10g with a tiny tray - trying to measure stuff into it is problematic so after a few goes when I first got my machine I didn't bother - plus with an EM0480 what goes in is not necessarily what comes out.

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    Rbn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journeyman View Post
    - plus with an EM0480 what goes in is not necessarily what comes out.
    What do you mean by this, too many fines or ??

    I just bought one!

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    Senior Member mwcalder05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawill View Post
    What do you mean by this, too many fines or ??

    I just bought one!
    He just means the weight of the beans that you put in won't match the weight of the output. This is due to various chambers holding or retaining some grinds. Or you could pick up some retained grinds from the last try so you might end up with more mass!

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    *grins* Don't freak out rawill, it's a good grinder. It's just as Michael says, the grind retention means you can't be sure of just how much you get out the spout. If I had a better set of scales I could measure the output properly by grind/dose/tamp, put the filter and grind on the scales and then into the PF; as it is, by the time I measure my dose and then transfer it into the filter I'd have 5 minute old grounds - not good for coffee quality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwcalder05 View Post
    Hey Robin,

    So the single..for me personally I would purchase the next basket size up from the 7 which is 15 because I prefer a bigger, fuller flavor, especially with a low end grinder. Not too sure if the VST 7g baskets fix the dreaded single shot basket inconsistency.

    If you do purchase the 22 or 15, make sure you purchase ridgless! I don't think there's a choice with the 7g

    Michael
    Hi Michael

    Your "bigger, fuller flavour" is logical but may be incorrect for 480 / 6910 when using VST's in a naked p/f (I have two of each of them, amongst other makers / grinders). I also have two complete sets of VST ridgeless / 7g ridged.

    How filter baskets affect espresso taste and barista technique - Reviews • Home-Barista.com is a 2011 link I missed at the time from Jim Schulman.

    My experience from the last few years agrees with him. A sorted 7g VST single / naked p/f gives a far "bigger, fuller flavour" than I have ever had from a double or triple. Considering I would have made (perhaps) 5 singles from 1970 to VST purchase date, it surprised me too. I found that (after dialing it in) the 22g VST was far too strong (way, way stronger than any triple I have ever encountered). It was also difficult to balance as it lost too many high notes. Working my way slowly downwards through the 20g, 18g & 15g I found the same thing. When I reached the 7g I was amazed at the clarity, detail and sheer punch. It often beats the bigger baskets for the rich chocolatey "low note" tones (as per JS thread) however it always nails them on the high notes even when the larger baskets are correctly balanced. IMHO most CS'rs are probably using the larger baskets as ristretto's (whether knowingly or not) which actually trades the high notes for even more lows. HB has dozens of threads over the last 10 years about larger baskets and reaches the same conclusion on the vast majority of them.

    The other two stray thoughts: 7g is the traditional single espresso shot for the last hundred years. Surely they cannot all be wrong over such a time period... The new Nespresso pod machines (no, I do not own one) use a 4 to 5g shot. If you put a decent coffee in them (think CS sponsor Di Bella currently & deservedly cashing in by providing quality pods) they are not down on strength in any way.

    Why do singles do this? I have several guesses but it seems to me (penciled in very, very lightly) most likely due to the increased distance for the coffee to travel in the basket. Every grain the water goes past must have an effect.

    Anyway, something for you to play with.


    TampIt

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    Quote Originally Posted by rawill View Post
    Hi Mike and Tampit

    If i get two VST baskets, to replace the standard 6910 baskets I guess I would get a 7 and a 22.
    If I am wrong please correct me.

    I only make a coffee for myself in the morning, hence using the single basket, maybe it is a 7 in VST baskets, or is it more like 11, half of a 22.
    And of course, if buying one basket for me, I might as well buy another for the times I make coffees for guests.

    Robin
    Hi Robin

    The standard 6910 "double" is 16g. The 6910 single is roughly a large 7 / small 8g (haven't measured it, it is a gnat's whisker bigger than the 7g VST by eye). See prev post for some more info. Using a naked (i.e. not splitting it), a 22g is far too big for most people / roasts when it is dialed in.

    Splitting a 22g will often give a worse outcome than splitting a 15 or 18 unless the roast is old and you are determined to avoid the bitterness by running it short. Splitting any coffee will give a worse result than running separate equivalent shots (worked that out years ago "on the front line"). Depends on the guests I suppose (segue: one CS'r bought Vittoria from the local supermarket to prevent them from getting spoilt).

    I would suggest you get a 7g and a 15g first and play with them before you go up in size unless you like dark roasts and also happen to smoke. http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...w-machine.html starts with an EM480 and goes on for several pages morphing into 6910 stuff somewhere in the middle. It has more than enough info to sort the rest of VST / naked p/f's out (and he or I would usually be available for detailed specifics via a PM). Sorry to dob you in JM.

    Cheers


    TampIt

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    Rbn
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    Many thanks to you all.

    I never imagined my "little question" would morph into such an interesting and informative read.
    And with great links for furter reading.

    My "hobbies" go in cycles, so sometimes I am not here for a while, but it seems most times I come back there is something more to learn.

    Again many thanks.

    And with some improvement in tamping things have improved, but I still get stray "water spouts"!

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    Senior Member mwcalder05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    Splitting a 22g will often give a worse outcome than splitting a 15 or 18
    How? Evidence? I went from splitting my original 6910 double basket to splitting my 22g VST (WITH AN 0480) and needless to say, it was definitely a step up. I don't know where you are getting all these wild ideas from TampIt..

    To the OP, I would say go for the 22g and work your way down. I drink a double ristretto shot (probably less than a dbl as I cut it before blonding) with my 22g and 0480 and 6910 and the result will be exactly the same with a naked pf. I would like to add, it can be confusing listening to all us snobs with different opinions but listen to your tongue. Buy what you like and stick with what you think tastes well

    Michael

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwcalder05 View Post
    How? Evidence? I went from splitting my original 6910 double basket to splitting my 22g VST (WITH AN 0480) and needless to say, it was definitely a step up. I don't know where you are getting all these wild ideas from TampIt..
    Hi Michael

    I gave you one link. There are quite a few others that are starting to pose the same Qn. Oh, and JS has probably forgotten more about coffee than I will ever know.

    The other issue: VST themselves are worth a read: they have a lot of recommendations about the use of their baskets esp. in terms of dosing. So does Ben Kaminsky on Espresso: Why you hate it and how to fix it [video] - Tips and Techniques • Home-Barista.com from the latest Nordic conference. Wild ideas? Who knows? BK doubles the extraction and keeps the same TDS - that is pretty wild too, however he back it with figures.

    The elephant in this room is possibly the grinder. Most grinders (even good commercial ones like Robur SJ's) give far too many "additional fines" when you set them finer than standard espresso and it futzes the whole coffee equation up. I stand by my statements. EM480's are what I call cheap conicals, they tend to perform better than "cheap flat burrs" at those very fine settings (which is why I bought a second one in a twofer deal). You can bump the VST extraction rate up a lot by grinding it finer and then adjusting your dosing & tamping to match. When you get a 7g (shelved?, not really ridged) or 15g 18g / 20g /22g ridgeless "in the zone" it becomes an interesting comparison. Also personal tastes vary as much as roasts, so you may prefer more low notes. Nothing wrong with that, however it is not the only way.

    Quote Originally Posted by mwcalder05 View Post
    To the OP, I would say go for the 22g and work your way down. I drink a double ristretto shot (probably less than a dbl as I cut it before blonding) with my 22g and 0480 and 6910 and the result will be exactly the same with a naked pf.
    Not with a good fresh medium SO it won't, not even close... Dark roasts tend to reduce the difference somewhat. We may have to agree to differ on that. Robin is already using singles, so AFAIAC a 7g or maybe a 15g is his best starting point. Considering VST's are well under $50 each and any machine is a lot more $$$'s, it is not like buying a new car...

    Quote Originally Posted by mwcalder05 View Post
    I would like to add, it can be confusing listening to all us snobs with different opinions but listen to your tongue. Buy what you like and stick with what you think tastes well

    Michael
    Totally agree. That is why it is always worth experimenting. I posted somewhere on CS that if someone said three years ago that I would be changing from my 22g (then) to 7g singles (now) for most of my coffees, I would have thought they were crazy. Yet here we are. The BK talk was only 9th of last month, so I will be trying to get higher extractions out of my 15g+'s over the XMAS break and see if I happen to have fluked the 7g first. All good fun.

    Enjoy your cuppa


    TampIt

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    Rbn
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    And I enjoy my cuppa.
    I like it mild, with silky milk, and now I find I do not like the coffee I get from cafe's.

    Today I pick up "used' my EM380.
    Was only NZ$100.00, so if it is not good, nothing much lost.

    Will be fun, then I will get a VST basket or two!

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    Good luck with it rawill - don't despair if you find it doesn't grind fine enough - a shim under the bottom burr fixes it. Depends how old it is - apparently the newer ones aren't as prone to the problem or maybe they started shimming them before leaving SB? Mi9ne went fromabout a 2 to get a reasonable pour to 13 and my EM0450 from 1 on the decaf (only when new, as soo as beans aged it was gusher time) to a 23 (thicker shim.

    Other than that they seem to be pretty good grinders and the price is unbeatable for the quality.

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    And it is of course an EM 0480, not 380 like I posted above.
    And I am sure it needs a shim, I am thinking far toooo course on even the finest grind.

    I will find out in the morning!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rawill View Post
    And it is of course an EM 0480, not 380 like I posted above.
    And I am sure it needs a shim, I am thinking far toooo course on even the finest grind.

    I will find out in the morning!
    It was far far too too coarse!

    Ah well back to my old grinder for the morning coffee.

    Tonight after a day at the motor racing, and watching the Sydney V8 Supercar round I,
    Decided to see what is involved in putting in a shim.

    Then found the top burr was only "sitting there", thought something seems strange about the aligning marks, they weren't lined up and the burr just lifted out and slipped back in, wasn't locked down.

    That is a bit odd I thought, but knowing nothing thought, wonder what i could do, found the lock unloc button, played around a bit, found I could use that to put in the top burr and the marks were aligned! and the burr was locked down.

    Set it up on finest grind and gave it whirr, oops no grinds coming out!

    Cleaned it out again, big mess on the floor!

    Set it on about 10, now nice fine grinds come out.
    Must have been blocking up on the finest grind.

    So roll on the morning coffee, time for another experiment,

    but not ready to Junk my Breville grinder yet.
    It might be consigned to the campervan.

    I only have a little "whizzer" in there, but it does do a fair job for me while we are away "camping"!

  32. #32
    Senior Member mwcalder05's Avatar
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    How are the shots going?

    Michael

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    Have a read of http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...w-machine.html for some detail on the grinder and how it all goes together. Sounds like you resolved the issue but check it out anyway - for example there's a 'flat spot' on the upper burr that should go to the rear of the machine when you insert it. Helps in working out the alignment marks. (mine weren't there)

  34. #34
    Rbn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journeyman View Post
    Have a read of http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...w-machine.html for some detail on the grinder and how it all goes together. Sounds like you resolved the issue but check it out anyway - for example there's a 'flat spot' on the upper burr that should go to the rear of the machine when you insert it. Helps in working out the alignment marks. (mine weren't there)
    I will check out your thread, funny I was thinking I had read about this issue somewhere.
    My top burr seems to have two flat spots that go into 2 recessed sections, and when fitting it "correctly" to my novice eye, the aligning marks line up properly.
    That is different from the way it arrived, but it is a used one what can I expect.

    I am about to go try my first coffee with it.


    Well well now - that is different!~!

    First grind was aobut 8-9, compering this grind with my old grind by touch I thought it was a bit finer and agood place to start. NO NO
    too fine, and I have to add I had progressively tamped, as I was doing with my old grinder.

    Shot would not go through the machine! right around in the red!

    So set the grind to 12, filled the basket and tamped it once.
    Slow to start, no water spouts, a single dark flow then blonding.
    Tastes different too!~!

    Now another learning curve begins!

    Thanks again to all contributors.

    Rbn
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  35. #35
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    14 seems a bit coarse, 12 seems alright, as I said above 8-9, is just too fine, so I will try 11 and see how that is.
    But I am there or there abouts with 12, and not a progresssive tamp, like 2 or 3 tamps like with my Breville grinder.

    Rbn

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    Something I found with the VST's (from advice by TampIt) is to grind finer than normal and to then dose lower. i.e. if 11 dosed to 3mm below rim gives a nice coffee, grind at 10 and 4mm below. Not sure how that would go with a normal basket but couldn't hurt to try. The difference in the VST coffee is palpable. (as in the mouth can feel it )

  37. #37
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    OK, I will give it a go.
    I think the finer grind is giving me more to "play with", untill I find the right approach.

    And on VST baskets, I believe I should go for a ridgeless, that is if I have read and picked up all the info properly.
    Please confirm this is right.

    Robin

    Note: I a really pleased to see the coffee coming out of the basket the way it does, big improvement from where I started.

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    Yes, ridgeless definitely. Note I don't think there is a 7g VST ridgeless but all the other sizes are available. Pullman tampers Things Coffee | Pullman Tamper, Coffee Tamper, VST Filter Basket, VST Refractometer, Hottop, Coffee Roaster, KN-8828B-2 have the cheapest VST's I found and Mark is good to deal with. You might just find some other goodies that are suddenly 'must have' categories.

    I think Jetblack and Coffeeparts have them also so they might be closer to you. (i.e. less freight?)

    I got a 22g and a 15g - 15 is plenty strong enough for me and my normal café coffee is a double shot (sometimes triple) macchiato. I tried the 22g when I got them and could feel the buzz - bloody good for 2 strong doubles though.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawill View Post
    OK, I will give it a go.
    I think the finer grind is giving me more to "play with", until I find the right approach.

    And on VST baskets, I believe I should go for a ridgeless, that is if I have read and picked up all the info properly.
    Please confirm this is right.

    Robin

    Note: I a really pleased to see the coffee coming out of the basket the way it does, big improvement from where I started.
    Firstly, congrats: you are well in the way to nailing it. The only problem it gives me is when I go out for a cuppa. Most Oz cafes are quite capable of doing terrible things to coffee. Mind you US is far worse for a random coffee / cuppa charcoal.

    Secondly: 7g is "shelved" for lack of a better description. All the rest are available in ridgeless - definitely better (even VST research says so). I did the ridged / ridgeless comparison about a year ago when setting up a LM Linea in a cafe for a friend / desperate owner. Result: Way more difference than I expected or even imagined. The owner is now running ridgeless, after scrapping over a dozen ridged VST's. All animals are equal, just some are more equal than others (Orwell).

    According to VST underdosing their baskets is preferable to overdosing. I concur. Assuming a good grinder, I find grinding near the limit of basket hole size and (under)dosing to get a circa 30 seconds flow is a good starting point on almost all gear. That is often just a little finer than the traditional espresso range. If it is bitter, check the grinder is clean or do the "paper test" and check for excessive fines.

    Have fun


    TampIt
    PS: Progressive tamping: must be very light (circa 3 to 4Kg) or you will get a choker.
    Last edited by TampIt; 10th December 2013 at 11:40 AM. Reason: Added PS
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  40. #40
    Rbn
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    Thank you to the posters.

    I am happy with where I have got to, haven't got a VST basket yet.
    However, on an 11 grind setting, and "my tamp" the pressure guage goes to the end of the yellow section during the pour.
    The crema is darker than when I used my Breville grinder, coffee is a little stronger, so maybe I will try a 7gram VST basket.

    All is good.

    Robin

  41. #41
    Rbn
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    VST basket, 7 gm, ordered and paid for, freight NZ half the price of the basket.

    We will see how it goes.

  42. #42
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    I've got the 15g & 22g (& doing quite well with the 15 - 22 only gets used with the double spout handle when there are visitors) so I don't have experience with the 7g. Apparently there are some things to learn with it that aren't needed with the larger baskets. Maybe have a chat with TampIt if you strike issues?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawill View Post
    VST basket, 7 gm, ordered and paid for, freight NZ half the price of the basket.

    We will see how it goes.
    Hi Robin

    Brave man starting w a 7g. Errors in dosing may do your head in for a while, however long term it will improve you technique (or you will go over to teabags).

    Thanks JM for dobbing me in. Robin you are welcome to PM me for some extra tips.

    Tip: Initially, do not go coarser on your grind or raise your dose. Now I have my scales, 7g of my finely ground, tamped coffee does not even fill the lower level (by about 2mm) of my 7g VST. Essentially, when I thought I was underdosing, I was still well above the rated basket capacity. Yes, other roasts will differ quite a lot. Dose less & use progressive tamping (gently at first) to slow the pour to something sane. If you get a choker, smile: you can dose less again. If you get a gusher, grind finer. That should be enough to get you in the zone after a few shots.

    One other issue: I do not know if "smart water" is available in NZ, however the full bottle inverted makes a "good enough to get the concept" tamper for the nether reaches of the basket. You need to have something flat which bottoms out about 2mm before the bottom of the lower level to get the critical first tamp correct or it will spray everywhere with your naked. It is the only lid I found over here that fits "properly". Feel free to improvise away....


    Have fun


    TampIt
    Last edited by TampIt; 17th December 2013 at 03:36 AM.

  44. #44
    Rbn
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    Hi Robin

    Brave man starting w a 7g. Errors in dosing may do your head in for a while, however long term it will improve you technique (or you will go over to teabags).
    Have fun


    TampIt

    hehe,
    it will be a cold day in **** before that happens!

    I know I have read heaps about using the double basket to get a better result, and tossing half the pour out!.
    But my "income level" dictates I do not waste the good beans!

    And it will be fun, I am sure.

    Thanks again, oh and the guys at Pullman were so fast and efficient, JM thanks for the link.
    TampIt likes this.

  45. #45
    Rbn
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    AND, this mornings coffee, I decided to tamp twice, using my single basket, with the double spout back on, not using the nake P/F for now.

    So taking Tampit's suggestion re the 7 gram VST basket, I tamped the first part of my stock single basket, not a hard tamp.
    Basket was filled to only juut above the ridge.

    Well the pour was great, pressure went straight into the red, but only just.
    Coffee tasted great, I will try the naked P/F with this approach next time.

    Oh and I filled the basket to slightly above the rim untamped, tamped it and I thought it was a bit under dosed, but decided, no just leave it and try it.

    As I said, all good.
    TampIt likes this.

  46. #46
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    and so the pleasure begins...

  47. #47
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    I finally got my Naked PF for the EM7000 today from Things Cofffe. I could see it was a challenge to modify with the design changes by Sunbeam to their stock PF, you need to tamp it at the edge of the bench for example due to the angled handle, and the rim is a bit sharp. It's also very deep which means it can take a quad basket with ease but also means you need to crouch at quite the angle to see the bottom of the basket screen.

    My shots coming out looked pretty good. Was hard to gauge the blonding point (got some impressive beans which are giving massive volume) - seemed to just want to pour forever. No squirting or anything but there is some very fine "micro-splatter" - is this normal?

  48. #48
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    What do you mean by 'micro-splatter'? Mine (for the 6910 so perhaps not relevant) starts with a few bubbly drops across the bottom that almost instantly become 2 or at most 3 streams that almost instantly become one stream. I get good views of it and there are no micro-drops coming off it at all.

    Does the edge of the PF hole clear the edges of the basket? Just wondering if you are getting droplets from the sides of the filter that might be hitting the edge?

  49. #49
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    I mean I get a few dots of coffee on the sides of the cup, machine etc.

  50. #50
    Rbn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfalz View Post
    I mean I get a few dots of coffee on the sides of the cup, machine etc.
    Me too, especially when I started with my Naked P/F.

    Now with better grinding (finer) and tamping 2x, first in the bottom of the single shot basket, the "drops" are way down, to almost nil.
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