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Thread: Breville BES920 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

  1. #1901
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    Screw hole and shower screen marks are there after the shot.
    The puck is a bit sloppy so after removing and allowing to dry I applied the Razertool and the puck is below the level of the tool even with 20grams in the basket.
    For me and my old BCG800 I have settled on 20grams as the optimum dose.

  2. #1902
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    Quote Originally Posted by mthomas87 View Post
    Using my BES900 at work with a pretty new BCG820 I'm grinding at 13 and about 21g into a double with about 12s til first drips and a 25-30s extraction. Has the grinder been pulled apart at any point that you know of? I think it's possible to stuff up the zero point of the grinder. There's also a burr setting you can change (http://coffeesnobs.com.au/grinders/3...inder-pro.html)

    Has it always been like this? The BCG800 used to have issues with the impeller wearing out but I thought the 820 was stainless instead of plastic.
    .
    Thanks for the reply. I had no idea you could easily change the burr setting. I had a look and mine was set on 6, so I'll make it finer and see if that improves my shot. The grinder hasn't been touched since new.

  3. #1903
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valvster View Post
    Screw hole and shower screen marks are there after the shot.
    The puck is a bit sloppy so after removing and allowing to dry I applied the Razertool and the puck is below the level of the tool even with 20grams in the basket.
    For me and my old BCG800 I have settled on 20grams as the optimum dose.
    There is no point in using the Razor after the shot. Use the Razor to get the level right before the shot. If you then insert the portafilter, the puck won't touch the shower screen. After you remove the portafilter AFTER the shot, there will will be screen marks on the puck. This is correct.
    The used puck should be reasonably dry, not sloppy. It should be firm.

    If you weighed your coffee going into the into the basket, this weight would be the correct weight to use going forward. The correct weight may change depending on the coffee being used, albeit very slightly.

    I'm using a 18g VST basket and 18g is the correct weight for the BES 920. I also have a Izzo Vivi and it needs 19g in the VST basket. This implies the shower screen is shallower in the basket in the Izzo.

  4. #1904
    Senior Member csutak40's Avatar
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    I have upgraded from a BES900 and am having a few problems.
    First... With the BES900 I had the famous flying group handle problem. I was sure that this will not be happening with the 920. Well, it has happened once, but worse, twice now the handle flew off BEFORE I even put coffee in it, while it was warming up! That certainly never happened with the BES900! Has this happened to anyone else?
    The second problem is that I just can't seem to dial in a consistent shot. I have a VST 20gr basket and a naked portafilter, which I had purchased for the 900, but it seems to fit (hmm, maybe it doesn't fit 100% and that is the reason for the fly offs? This thought had just occurred to me)
    I weigh the coffee every day (23gr), even use the Razertool to be sure, time the shot (30 seconds after preinfusion) and hope to get 60ml of coffee. I keep adjusting the grinder to achieve that. The problem is, having achieved it, and changing nothing the next time, I don't get 60ml. Sometimes I get a lot less (say 45ml) sometimes a LOT more. Even as much as 110ml, unless I stop the shot before the 30seconds are up. The only thing that has changed is that the beans are now a day older, but every other variable is exactly the same.
    What am I doing wrong?
    Also, the puck is always wet, which never used to be the case with the 900. I haven't changed any of my "habits" since I got this machine, (except, I have reduced the amount of beans, after reading this Forum and trying the Razertool, seems I have been overdosing all this time. Used to use about 25gr) so I can't understand why I can't get it right.

  5. #1905
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    Quote Originally Posted by csutak40 View Post
    ... a naked portafilter, which I had purchased for the 900 ...
    Unless you purchased the naked portafilter after the BES920 was introduced, you'll have to modify it by grinding a notch in the handle as shown before it will properly fit the 920.

    IMG_1130.JPGIMG_1131.JPG

    If you're going to try this yourself, search for how to grind stainless steel first. The main tip is to use a brand new aluminium oxide grinding wheel. Don't touch the handle with anything that's been used to grind or file normal steel or the surface will be contaminated and it will rust.
    Last edited by Banjo.au; 12th January 2018 at 09:43 AM. Reason: Added grinding tip.

  6. #1906
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlight View Post
    There is no point in using the Razor after the shot. Use the Razor to get the level right before the shot. If you then insert the portafilter, the puck won't touch the shower screen. After you remove the portafilter AFTER the shot, there will will be screen marks on the puck. This is correct.
    The used puck should be reasonably dry, not sloppy. It should be firm.

    If you weighed your coffee going into the into the basket, this weight would be the correct weight to use going forward.
    Just to clarify.....of course I'm aware the Razor should be used before the shot my post was in response to a query from Bismuth a few days ago about the coffee pressing against the shower screen.

    "Hello all, my first post here! I bought the machine in November and have been making some great coffee save one frustration. After tamping (and even checking the dose is correct with the razor tool) the coffee is still pressing up against the shower screen when the group handle is attached (using the single walled double shot basket). If I reduce the dose the flow rate is effected and adequate pressure isn't generated - I would have thought that the suggested dose from the razor tool was at a level that wouldn't be against the shower screen? Any ideas?"

    I have found that using fresh beans + Breville single wall basket + Breville supplied tamper + Razer + old BCG800 grinder I get :
    18gram dose = watery under extracted shot at 5-7bar + wet puck + channelling + puck with shower screen marks
    19gram dose = under extracted shot at 7bar + wet puck + occasional channelling + puck with shower screen marks
    20gram dose = shot extracted at 8-9 bar + wet puck + puck with shower screen marks + tastes luvvly

    I don't use the Razer when dosing and always thought the puck expanded during extraction (otherwise there would be severe edge channelling?)
    Today I dosed at 19gram and forgot to check with the Razer before the shot and got the above result....I checked with the Razer after the puck had
    dried and there was daylight....maybe the puck shrinks?

    Conclusion...I need a properly fitted tamper, new grinder, more precise scales and the Razer is useless.

  7. #1907
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    I have followed all the advice from folks on this site to no avail and a suggestion from Breville USA support suggestions to squirt some compressed air up into the group head water dispensing hole. It still didn't fix the descale problem and now I get no steam from the steam wand. Just 3 beeps and absolutely no steam. I am now really frustrated and ready to ditch this Breville machine if I can't get it fixed. It is out of warranty of course now so I will have to spend a bunch of money to get it fixed since I will have to ship it somewhere for service.

  8. #1908
    Senior Member csutak40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banjo.au View Post
    Unless you purchased the naked portafilter after the BES920 was introduced, you'll have to modify it by grinding a notch in the handle as shown before it will properly fit the 920.

    IMG_1130.JPGIMG_1131.JPG

    If you're going to try this yourself, search for how to grind stainless steel first. The main tip is to use a brand new aluminium oxide grinding wheel. Don't touch the handle with anything that's been used to grind or file normal steel or the surface will be contaminated and it will rust.
    I am not sure what I'm looking for. This is what mine looks like
    2018-01-12 14.44.48.jpg2018-01-12 14.44.14.jpg

  9. #1909
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    I just noticed thishttp://coffeesnobs.com.au/coffee-har...al-boiler.html
    I wonder if that is what's causing it to fly off - he reckons the 920 is slightly bigger
    However, just looked on Breville and it says This item compatible with BES980XL, BES920XL and BES900XL.

  10. #1910
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    That's my portafilter. I think the difference is that the later version works with both the 920 and the 900. If yours is flying off, are you using the stock basket? I found that my VST basket more easily came off during brew, but it was usually temporary, eg after cleaning or changing seal.

  11. #1911
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    Quote Originally Posted by iampivot View Post
    That's my portafilter. I think the difference is that the later version works with both the 920 and the 900. If yours is flying off, are you using the stock basket? I found that my VST basket more easily came off during brew, but it was usually temporary, eg after cleaning or changing seal.
    I am using the VsT basket.
    I am still not clear, is mine different from Banjo.au ?

  12. #1912
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    Compare the naked one to your normal portafilter. See if the ears are different. If your naked flies off more than the normal portafilter, then it's an issue with the portafilter, otherwise, I'd say it's the basket which has a slightly different flange to it.

  13. #1913
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    Quote Originally Posted by csutak40 View Post
    I am still not clear, is mine different from Banjo.au ?
    No, it's effectively the same. Earlier 900 nakeds didn't have the notch in the handle, so they can't be used in a 920 without modification.

    I ground the notch myself and it works fine in my 920. The ears have a slightly different ramp profile to the stock 920 portafilter, but it's never fallen out in use even with VST baskets or after cleaning. I do have to turn it further to lock it in.

  14. #1914
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banjo.au View Post
    . I do have to turn it further to lock it in.
    I have been a bit scared to tighten it too much as the repairer (with my 900) told me that people make a mistake by tightening too much and that is what wrecks it

  15. #1915
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    Quote Originally Posted by csutak40 View Post
    I have been a bit scared to tighten it too much as the repairer (with my 900) told me that people make a mistake by tightening too much and that is what wrecks it
    The repairer is correct, gorilla force combined with over dosing are a bad combination.

  16. #1916
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    Same force, more travel with the same basket.

  17. #1917
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    Quote Originally Posted by John1938 View Post
    I am unable to complete the descale process and cannot get rid of the descale notice on my display. Also am tasting the descale chemicial in my coffee.
    I tried to follow the instructions in the manual to the letter and can't get it to work properly. I did somehow manage to get to the 20 minute routine that filled the boilers with the descale solution but con't complete the procedure. It keeps displaying "Valv" and beeps 3 times. I have tried multiple times but have had no luck in getting past this to complete the flushing out of the solution and refilling the boilers with clean water. I have had to give up on the Descale function and started up normally to fill the boilers and have then emptied them by pressing the manual button to put out water and use the Hot Water function and Steam nozzle many times,
    I really would like to know how to actually complete the Descale process.
    Thanks,
    John
    I had issues descaling my 920 last time. I couldn't get the boilers to empty properly, much the same as the error you are getting.

    The advice I received from Breville Australia was to follow the attached BES920 Descale Flyer_1337 to current_A15_Lowres (3).pdf (updated) process, and during the draining part, tilt the machine forward to get the water out.

    Worked for me, so hopefully it helps.
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  18. #1918
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    Whoops, the "Clean Me" notification has popped up again and I forgot what I researched last time it happened (used the last of my free tablets).

    Can you use a little of the Cafetto Descaler Powder to clean the machine via the filter basket (Clean Me cycle, not descaling)? Or do I need to get the specific "cleaning powder"? Heard the powder was the way to go than tablets.

    Cheers

  19. #1919
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    I would say the actual cleaning powder

  20. #1920
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudy View Post
    Whoops, the "Clean Me" notification has popped up again and I forgot what I researched last time it happened (used the last of my free tablets).

    Can you use a little of the Cafetto Descaler Powder to clean the machine via the filter basket (Clean Me cycle, not descaling)? Or do I need to get the specific "cleaning powder"? Heard the powder was the way to go than tablets.

    Cheers
    DONT use descaler, do use a back flush powder such as Cafetto EVO or similar.

  21. #1921
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    Thanks Rusty & Yelta for the quick response. I see the cafetto powder on eBay for ~$22 for 500g delivered. How much do you use? About a tablet portion? Wondering if I should go the 1kg option for not much more.

  22. #1922
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloudy View Post
    Thanks Rusty & Yelta for the quick response. I see the cafetto powder on eBay for ~$22 for 500g delivered. How much do you use? About a tablet portion? Wondering if I should go the 1kg option for not much more.
    I use a level teaspoon of EVO to back flush, 500 grams will last for ages.

  23. #1923
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    500g is all you need. Iím probably less than a scoop and it will last forever.

  24. #1924
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    I use a scoop of the powder (scoop comes in the jar) and the built in cleaning cycle

  25. #1925
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    I've searched the thread and can't find a previous report of a problem my 4-year old 920 has developed.
    It may have started after I replaced a number of O-rings last week, though I think it was several days after.

    Problem is that on switch-on the temperature display will start flashing to high temperatures, eventually 125-126 deg, then that flashes (sometimes fluctuating to 91) and after 10 minutes or so will settle at the usual 93 deg.
    I wondered if there was an air lock in the boiler, and drained some water out via the drain valve, but behaviour has persisted.
    The main problem is that it takes a long time to get to a stable heat at lunchtime or if have visitors want a coffee at odd hours. In the morning it comes on automatically, so not usually a problem

    Any ideas, please?

    Russell

  26. #1926
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    Yes you have an air lock. Bleed out using the hot water outlet and the trough the group head. If it keeps happening you are drawing air in as the boilers cool. Check the O rings by turning in with the lid off to one side (no fingers in there!). You’ll see water bubbling as it heats, even steam coming from the faulty o rings.

  27. #1927
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    Thanks for confirming that Chris.

    Fully draining the boiler and refilling has reduced the problem markedly, I suspect there's still a little bubble there.
    No signs of any leakage when I opened the case.

  28. #1928
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    Hi all,

    Im new to BES920 family. I have a question about the Clean Me! message.
    I received my machine in mid Dec, I estimate ive done about 50-70 shots. My understanding is that the Clean Me! message comes after 200 shots. Is it possibly counting back flushes, quick shower screen flushes etc?
    Also what I find weird is that the message ONLY appears during warm up, as soon as im at temp the message clears. If you were using the timer function to start the machine, youd never see it. Is what im describing normal?

  29. #1929
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    I think the answers are Yes and Yes.
    I understand the system regards any pump activity over 7 seconds as a "shot." I have seen the message only during warm up.
    As the timer function operates only once a day, most people would have a chance to the see the message on a manual switch-on

    HTH

    Russell

  30. #1930
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    Further to my problem with the air-lock (post 1927), , I'm now getting "Err3". It mostly came when I tried to switch off .
    At first this would reset if I switched the machine off at the wall, but now it seems more permanent.

    I can't see any reports on its significance, except that it appears to need Breville's intervention.
    Is that the only alternative?

  31. #1931
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    Thanks Russell. Next question is, is it safe to ignore the message until ive done approx 200 real shots? They probably need to build some intelligence into the counter. For example, 7+BAR AND 15+seconds = 1 shot.

  32. #1932
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    Hello guys ! My name is Nikolaos and i am new in the forum !
    Today i bought a Breville 920 and i am extremely happy already !
    Before use to had the Barista Express and then Nuova Simonelly Oscar .
    I can easily say that the Breville can be at extraction temperature very quick , like 5 mins is ready to go .
    I love coffee but my problem was that i can never drink it without add a little bit of sugar .
    After play around with the new 920 i realise that you can get fairly difference to the taste of the coffee once you play with the adjustments .
    After the perfect shot i can say that i have drink the first coffee in my life WITHOUT sugar :-) and i am very excited !!!!!!!
    The coffee i use is the Merlo private blend .
    If you guys haven't try it , worth a try :-)

  33. #1933
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    Morning Nikolaos, welcome to Coffee Snobs.

    Enjoy your new machine.

  34. #1934
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    Thank you Yelta :-)

  35. #1935
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    Hi guys, been a member here for a few years but stopped visiting as much as the USA web sites caught up with 900/920 growth and adoption...

    I was an early USA adopter having got my -900 in November 2011. About two years later, it got replaced under warranty with a -900 /B which was the last version before the -920 came out, and uses the -920 brew group and notched portafilters and all. So I'm kind of in between the -900 forum and the -920 forum. So my -900 is basically a -920 save for the ability to drain the boilers, with is moot to me, because I use a commercial espresso machine filtration system that does not produce scale.

    So now, many years off warranty, a little over six years into BDB ownership (for Breville Dual Boiler), and being active on the forums, these are the things that seem to commonly arise:

    1) o-rings: need replacing every 2-3 years, particularly the steam boiler o-rings under the fittings where there are water tubes. Failure to replace these when they are leaking can cause all manner of strange behavior, from constant heating past the set temp, to popping the circuit at the wall outlet as leaking steam wets the triac circuit board under the warming tray. $10USD from Amazon or ebay gets you 100 size #007 o-rings, which is more than you will need for the rest of your life. I used silicone, because I think that's what Breville used. Some use EPDM, and some use regular nitrile. They all cost about the same and I wouldn't be surprised if they all work about the same in this application, despite having different duty ratings.

    2) solenoid: seems good for about 3-4 years. I have not had much luck trying to rebuild one that no longer works. Under $50USD delivered for a new one. I have kept my old one though, in case something comes up where I find good information on how to revive it. But if I had to guess, I'd say the electric bit, the coil, is what is bad, and not leaks or blockages.

    3) steam ball valve: these eventually begin to leak either through the ball in the middle or out the side of the on-off handle. It is oriented vertically in the machine. the bits that screw into the top and bottom of it are unique to the BDB. the bit in the middle, the valve unit itself could be an off the shelf item from about anywhere (probably China), as the world is awash in g1/4 British thread ball valves, which is what this uses. Problem: most of the parts houses I'm aware of are out of these and may be discontinued. Solution: keep the top and bottom Breville bits and find an off the shelf ball valve from somewhere that uses female-female g1/4 British threads that is about the same length as the Breville one and use it instead. Might have to bend up a new clamp to clamp it to the the machine if the Breville clamp is too small or too big. USA 1/4 NPT female-female ball valves may work too in this type of application. They are the same thread pitch as the British g1/4, but are tapered thread. Many people in the automotive hobbies exchange USA NPT with British BSPP and BSPT for mild applications.

    How does this synopsis sound with the experiences you guys are having with BDB ownership? Anything to add that I have missed? What about more rare parts failures? I have yet to see group collar problems reported by USA/Canada users, but they seem more common here in Oz. I have no explanation for that.

    Anyway, I'm really interested in getting caught up on what's happening in the DIY repair scene for the -900/-920 on your side of the world, as it sounds like you guys do a bit more of that than many of us Yanks. Breville USA offers a program where they repair any problems on your machine for $350USD, which includes shipping both ways, and if they can't repair it in (two days I think?), they send you a new one. This has discouraged a lot of Americans from going elbows deep and figuring out repairs for themselves.

    -Peter

  36. #1936
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlight View Post
    Have you taken it for repair? Any machine needs maintenance. If it's lasted edition 3 years with zero maintenance, you've done well. If you've kept it clean, use filtered water and descale it every year, then it should be easily repairable.

    I've had numerous quality Italian machines. They do need maintenance, too. And they cost when you get them serviced. No free ride there.
    So very true. On the USA forums, if a GS/3 needs maintenance that's ok. If a BDB needs maintenance, it gets labelled as piece of junk.

    -Peter
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  37. #1937
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    Do you guys have any experience with preinfusion time ?
    I have change mine , from 4 sec to 6 sec, etc with same coffee . grind setup and amount and can't really see any difference !
    Also there is an option for preinfusion pressure that haven't touch yet .
    I am not an expert and i have read so much online the last days , that is too much information for my brain :-)

    Thanks.

  38. #1938
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickRPT View Post
    Hello guys ! My name is Nikolaos and i am new in the forum !
    Today i bought a Breville 920 and i am extremely happy already !
    Before use to had the Barista Express and then Nuova Simonelly Oscar .
    I can easily say that the Breville can be at extraction temperature very quick , like 5 mins is ready to go .
    I love coffee but my problem was that i can never drink it without add a little bit of sugar .
    After play around with the new 920 i realise that you can get fairly difference to the taste of the coffee once you play with the adjustments .
    After the perfect shot i can say that i have drink the first coffee in my life WITHOUT sugar :-) and i am very excited !!!!!!!
    The coffee i use is the Merlo private blend .
    If you guys haven't try it , worth a try :-)
    Good to hear.

    I use merlo private blend as well. A great choice.

  39. #1939
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    Thank you prydey :-)
    I usually use Merlo private blend for drinks with milk and for my favorite Freddo espresso , i use the Griffiths Kingston .
    Freddo espresso is cold espresso that we drink it a lot back in my country , Greece :-)

    And it looks like that :
    B5h3C7yIIAEmfat.jpg

  40. #1940
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickRPT View Post
    Freddo espresso is cold espresso that we drink it a lot back in my country , Greece :-)
    Interesting Nick, how is it made.

  41. #1941
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    Yelta , there is the Freddo cappuccino too that you add on the top the froth cold milk !
    For both they sell a "special shaker" that i think you can buy only from Greece (i have one on the way coming :-) ) as i couldn't find it on any other website !
    I will attach pictures of it .
    Extracting the espresso to a short glass as the shaker doesn't fit under the machine and then drop it in to the shaker .
    If you have sugar then you need to stir the sugar with the mixer for 2 sec , next step you add 2 ice cubes and you stir again for another 2 sec for the coffee to become cold !
    Then it's ready to drop it in to the glass that is filled up with ice cubes , and if you are PRO is better to use smashed ice cubes !
    If you don't have sugar , you just stir with the mixer and 2 iced cubes for few sec .
    Same is with the Freddo Espresso , you just add on the top the milk !
    Milk need to be full cream and very cold in to the shaker and you just stir with the mixer for 30 -50 seconds and the milk will become a very thick cream .
    Then you add on the top of the Freddo espresso and you have a Freddo cappuccino !
    Excuse my English please :-)
    There is a picture of shaker , mixer and freddo cappuccino :-)
    33025675783_7c0fe5c2d5_h.jpgimg_1988.jpg

  42. #1942
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    Interesting Nick, I reckon a cocktail shaker would do the job, will have a play later in the day.

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    Yes, the only problem is that the cocktail shaker is too big and the mixer will be not long enough to rich the bottom of the shaker :-) , but not sure , you can try it !

  44. #1944
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Will let you know how it go's.

  45. #1945
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickRPT View Post
    Yes, the only problem is that the cocktail shaker is too big and the mixer will be not long enough to rich the bottom of the shaker :-) , but not sure , you can try it !
    Made one this afternoon Nick.

    Used a cocktail shaker, with a cheap milk frothing wand as a mixer, very impressed, nice drink on a hot day.

    I reckon it needs a bit of publicity, why not post the recipe in
    General Coffee Related

    . Thumbs up from me.

  46. #1946
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    Yeah it is for me the best coffee !
    I had this coffee any time of the year :-)
    Try the Freddo cappuccino next with the milk !
    If you do it many times you'll do it much better !
    For the guys that watching here you can youtube it there is many Greeks demonstrate how to do it properly !
    The video is better from me trying explain with my poor English :-)
    I have found that a medium roast coffee work better for me doing that iced coffees !

  47. #1947
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    Also have you guys try VST 20g basket on a Breville 920 ?
    I have one and i have found that i can get better shots from the stock filter !
    Anyone here got any experience ?

  48. #1948
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    Here is a picture from the one i did before :-)
    Related to the post too :-)
    28000854_2168348910112669_101860378_n.jpg

  49. #1949
    Senior Member prydey's Avatar
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    i have a pullman 17-19g basket. can't compare it to stock basket as my tamper is matched to my pullman basket. bit sloppy in the stock one which results in channelling.

  50. #1950
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    Breville BES920 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

    Hi all, I have now diligently followed the descaling video from Beauty and the Barista on YouTube 3 times. I am frustrated to the max as I still have DESCALE! showing on the screen. Can some kind souls who know their machine backwards and successfully descale please view this video and confirm whether the process is correct as demonstrated or not. This is doing my head in.
    https://youtu.be/_VAkjB2qC9c
    thanks so much.

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