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Thread: Breville BES920 Dual Boiler - Owners thread

  1. #2351
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    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Hi all

    Who has done a pump replacement on a 920? Any booby traps to look out for?

    C
    I have. Easy peasy. No booby traps. Once you remove the back panel, there are four screws, two top and two bottom. They come straight back out, so no need for tiny hands or delicate maneuvering in tight spaces.

    It will be easier if you remove four more screws and shift the computer out of the way, and clip off a zip tie and shift a wire bundle out of the way. So grab a cutter and a couple of small zip ties in addition to the screwdriver.

    You will fish the pump out the top with the OPV still attached. Uncrew the OPV from the pump and screw it onto the new pump.

    If you were thinking of converting to a brass OPV, get the version of the pump with a brass neck...EX5 instead of the stock plastic neck pump (EP5).

    -Peter

  2. #2352
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    Quote Originally Posted by robdridan View Post
    My 920 is about 4 yrs old, typical 1 cup per day average. Lately it's started not priming during the pre infusion- sounds a little buzzy when attempting to pre infuse and no pressure, but them when main pressure kicks in its fine. Once 1 shot is poured pre infusion works fine also.

    So it's obviously losing water to low pressure pump for pre infusion and needs to be primed with a quick full pressure (usually hold single shot down). Regularly cleaned and escaped. Anything else I can do or 8s it needing a new pump?
    This is what mine began doing, (a nearly six year old -900), and eventually even doing the "main pressure" trick would no longer work. AND in my case, changing to a new pump didn't fix it, either. Breville USA offers a $350, off warranty service/repair charge which includes post both ways. So I paid it. They couldn't, or didn't think it was worth it to fix it, and they were out of factory refurbished machines, so they sent me a brand new in the box, -920.

    Point is, some of the Breville repairmen on this forum have had good luck fixing your problem by swapping in a new pump. New pumps are cheap and easy replace, so it's worth a try. But this did NOT work for me. And Breville USA didn't want to fix it either, so I wonder if there wasn't an issue with a controller on the main board? But that would be a guess.

    -Peter

  3. #2353
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    Can you point me in the direction of a new pump with said brass Opv please

  4. #2354
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    Quote Originally Posted by robdridan View Post
    Can you point me in the direction of a new pump with said brass Opv please
    Here is the pump I got. You will need to find it in Aussie voltage. Shouldn't be a problem because Ulka is an Italian company and don't they use about the same voltage and frequency as Oz?
    https://www.amazon.com/Ulka-EX5-Vibr...words=ulka+ex5

    And this is the OPV I used. Any prosumer or commercial OPV designed to fit Ulka pumps (the industry standard) should work. It does not have to be a Vibiemme. You also should not have to order one from a USA company. Plenty of people in Oz have commercial/prosumer E61 machines with vibe pumps. Still here is specifically what I got: https://www.espressocare.com/product...pass-valve-opv

    A proper espresso machine service business should be able to get you both easily enough.

    -Peter

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    Thanks for that. Yes I did find 230v version to suit. Is the Ulka better than the Breville pump or just cheaper replacement

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    Quote Originally Posted by robdridan View Post
    Thanks for that. Yes I did find 230v version to suit. Is the Ulka better than the Breville pump or just cheaper replacement
    The stock Breville pump is also an Ulka. It's the EP5 version, with a plastic neck, but otherwise identical the brass neck EX5. Don't let the fact that the BDB a "consumer appliance" fool you. There are key components in the flow path that are Italian: The Ulka pump and the Olab solenoid, (or is the Olab solenoid form Germany? I forget).

    -Peter
    Last edited by pcrussell50; 21st November 2018 at 01:45 AM.

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    Thanks Peter. Ordered the pump off ebay

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    Thanks for all that Peter. There looks to be a fuse or something glued to the side of my pump. I'm sure its just being held there, not connected as such.

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    There is usually a pocket moulded into the Ulka pump housing to hold a thermal cutout. It should be in series with the power supply to the pump so that it cuts the power to the pump when it detects excess temperature (eg from the pump running dry for too long) rather than allowing the coil to heat further and burn out.

  10. #2360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Thanks for all that Peter. There looks to be a fuse or something glued to the side of my pump. I'm sure its just being held there, not connected as such.
    Yes, it is a soft glue. Use a small screwdriver or whatever small tool is convenient and peel enough of that glue away that you can slide out that thermal cutout and slide it into the same pocket on the new pump. Maybe add a dot of silicone to keep it coming out. I didn't, but should be no harm if you felt like it.

    -Peter

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    I'm hoping someone can shed some light on the problem I am having with my Breville 920 dual boiler. Just some history on the machine first... bought brand new from Myer about 4 years ago been very happy with the machine up until about 4 months ago when all of a sudden it was leaking water out from the base of the machine, turned out to be o ring failure on the steam boiler. Bought new o rings and fixed it. This morning went to turn it on and noticed the cup warmer plate on top was very hot and I had full stem pressure when the steam wand was on yet the machine has been off since yesterday afternoon? I have unplugged it from the power socket and put it out of service until I can get it sorted, has been a great machine always great coffee, shame that its now unusable and unsafe.

  12. #2362
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    There is a circuit board attached to the underside of the warming tray, not far from the top of the steam boiler. Your symptoms are congruent with one of the things that happens when there is moisture trapped in that circuit board. See if you can unscrew the cover for it and run a hair dryer at it until you are certain it is bone dry... Several hours with good air flow. Obviously your espresso machine should be unplugged before you uncover the board, and the hair dryer should not be too hot. Do it and report back.

    -Peter
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    I would like to ask a question of folks in this thread. MY BES920XL makes a buzzing sound when I press a button to start the extraction and seems to be getting very hot at the top of the housing. It is also getting steam in the pressure display and the menu display. Does anyone have a suggestion as to what the problem may be?

  14. #2364
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    Quote Originally Posted by John1938 View Post
    I would like to ask a question of folks in this thread. MY BES920XL makes a buzzing sound when I press a button to start the extraction and seems to be getting very hot at the top of the housing. It is also getting steam in the pressure display and the menu display. Does anyone have a suggestion as to what the problem may be?
    1) buzzing sound: probably the solenoid. Remove it, disassemble and clean. Reassemble and reinstall. If that doesn't fix it, replace it. Here in the USA, they are about $42 USD.
    2) the other symptoms: sounds like you have a steam leak. this is to be expected if you have gone between two and four years without replacing the size #007 o-rings on top of the steam boiler. This is a regular maintenance item every couple of years. Fortunately, it is easy and cheap.

    -Peter

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    Whatever you do - when you work on the machine make sure you un-plug it from the wall so that you don't become a statistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcrussell50 View Post
    1) buzzing sound: probably the solenoid. Remove it, disassemble and clean. Reassemble and reinstall. If that doesn't fix it, replace it. Here in the USA, they are about $42 USD.
    2) the other symptoms: sounds like you have a steam leak. this is to be expected if you have gone between two and four years without replacing the size #007 o-rings on top of the steam boiler. This is a regular maintenance item every couple of years. Fortunately, it is easy and cheap.

    -Peter
    Thank-you Peter for the reply. I think I will send it in for repairs by a repair depot, since I am old and awkward. Kind of clumsy these days so I don't want to break something.
    John

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    Anyone know where I can get a cheap portafilter? Wanting a 2nd for when I have family come around as I turned my current into a naked and wanting to make singles out of my double basket for them. Cheers

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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    If anyone's chasing a Xmas special on a Breville BES920, the 'Bay has 20% off from 10am today (17/12/18) at The Good Guys bringing the price down to $799. If you want the BCG820BSS Breville Smart Grinder Pro, buy it seperately for $215 with the discount. Pick up in store to save on delivery costs.

    You won't see it pop up on the 'Bay until 10am and you'll probably need to log-in to see the discounted price on the actual ads.

    This is listed on the "ozbargain" website currently.
    Last edited by CafeLotta; 17th December 2018 at 08:54 AM.
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  19. #2369
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    @CafeLotta the cheapest recurring price I've seen is $710 from Bing Lee when they have 20% off on the Bay. So wait for that one if you wanna save an extra $90.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mstrelan View Post
    @CafeLotta the cheapest recurring price I've seen is $710 from Bing Lee when they have 20% off on the Bay. So wait for that one if you wanna save an extra $90.
    Just sharing the deal (I'm not looking to buy one ). Appreciate the additonal info, some others may find it useful. For people in Victoria, The Good Guys may be useful for a walk in pick-up.

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    Just a quick question. I've just done my first clean cycle, and from what I have seen on youtube, I was expecting to see water and cleaning solution come out from the portafilter, but no liquid came out at all. The tablet was dissolved, which leaves me wondering where it went? I'm guessing liquid should come out since they recommend you to empty the drip tray. What could I have done wrong?
    Cheers

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    The 920 has a blanking rubber disk. The lesser models have a hole in the disk and you will see water out of the portafilter.

    From what I know it resolves and then goes out through the opv so it cleans the screen and opv also

  23. #2373
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    hi birddog,

    I have a new model,

    the solution comes out the bottom into the tray.

    You have done nothing wrong.

    I put a cup under the portafilter the first time I had to clean and was confused as to why nothing was in the cup.( I previously owned a BES860).

    Hope this helps,
    TheMurphs.

  24. #2374
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    Quote Originally Posted by themurphs View Post
    hi birddog,

    I have a new model,

    the solution comes out the bottom into the tray.

    You have done nothing wrong.

    I put a cup under the portafilter the first time I had to clean and was confused as to why nothing was in the cup.( I previously owned a BES860).

    Hope this helps,
    TheMurphs.
    As did I. Thatís why I lnow the blanking plate on the 860 has a hole and the 920 doesnít. I use a blind filter to clean mine now.

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    Thanks for the replies! I didn't want to get a shock on my next morning coffee with a mouth full of cleaning solution!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birddog727 View Post
    Thanks for the replies! I didn't want to get a shock on my next morning coffee with a mouth full of cleaning solution!
    When I do mine, I wash everything and let it do another clean cycle with no chemical.

  27. #2377
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    As per the manual I run the cleaning cycle with chemical, then pull a shot and discard it. Next shot is back to normal and drinkable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by troels View Post
    .Apparently you have to search for BES008 to find the filter on their site..
    well, it's changed yet again. just called Breville today to order in the CS filter, they've quoted a new part no. BES008WHT (which currently isn't listed on their w/s).

  29. #2379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mart3y View Post
    I had issues descaling my 920 last time. I couldn't get the boilers to empty properly, much the same as the error you are getting.

    The advice I received from Breville Australia was to follow the attached Attachment 18101 (updated) process, and during the draining part, tilt the machine forward to get the water out.

    Worked for me, so hopefully it helps.
    Why didn't I think of that! Thank you for the PDF instructions from Breville Australia + the tip to tilt the machine forward

  30. #2380
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    I find if you follow the instructions the water cools down too much. I keep turning the machine on briefly to check the temperature, wait until it's between 60-70 and you're good. Just be aware the water / steam will come out quite hot, but it all comes out quite happily, especially if you open the water / steam valves when emptying the respective boilers.

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    Hi all, I have run into a problem after doing a descale on my 920 dual boiler. Machine has been faultless for several years but a message came up recently saying to descale. So I followed the instructions and did the descale but now the steam boiler won't turn off. I turn the machine off with the Power button but the steam boiler remains on. So the steam wand will still work even if the machine has been off for several hours! I've read that having steam problems after running the descale procedure is a common issue with these machines. But from what I've read, the common problem is the steam wand not working at all because of the element burning out during the descale process. My problem is different but possibly related.

    Has anyone got any ideas on how to fix this? Is there a solution? Should I could run through the descale process again?

  32. #2382
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    Sounds like a related problem. Instead of the element blowing from being on for too long one of the components that switches the element on and off has failed. Maybe the relay that switches it has welded closed, maybe the temperature sensor has failed open, maybe the triac switching the relay..... It needs a tech to fix it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Sounds like a related problem. Instead of the element blowing from being on for too long one of the components that switches the element on and off has failed. Maybe the relay that switches it has welded closed, maybe the temperature sensor has failed open, maybe the triac switching the relay..... It needs a tech to fix it.
    Thanks. I'm an electrical/electronics guy. So can probably diagnose and fix it. Where's the best place to buy spares. (I'm in NZ). Is there any technical info available online?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfella View Post
    I'm hoping someone can shed some light on the problem I am having with my Breville 920 dual boiler. Just some history on the machine first... bought brand new from Myer about 4 years ago been very happy with the machine up until about 4 months ago when all of a sudden it was leaking water out from the base of the machine, turned out to be o ring failure on the steam boiler. Bought new o rings and fixed it. This morning went to turn it on and noticed the cup warmer plate on top was very hot and I had full stem pressure when the steam wand was on yet the machine has been off since yesterday afternoon? I have unplugged it from the power socket and put it out of service until I can get it sorted, has been a great machine always great coffee, shame that its now unusable and unsafe.
    Did you get this fixed? If so, what was wrong? Mine's got exactly the same problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seasport View Post
    Did you get this fixed? If so, what was wrong? Mine's got exactly the same problem.
    Shorted triac which powers the steam boiler. Remove the lid and trace the wiring from the steam boiler to the triac board attached to the lid to determine which triac is for the steam boiler.

    The triac will have a code written on it, you should be able to order is from RS Components. I don't remember the triac part number.
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  36. #2386
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    Quote Originally Posted by noidle22 View Post
    Shorted triac which powers the steam boiler. Remove the lid and trace the wiring from the steam boiler to the triac board attached to the lid to determine which triac is for the steam boiler.

    The triac will have a code written on it, you should be able to order is from RS Components. I don't remember the triac part number.
    Thanks! Looks like the triac is OK but the "on" control signal is still being sent to the board when the machine is turned off. Could it be a faulty sensor on the boiler? It appears that the boiler keeps on heating. I'm figuring the heat of the descale process has killed something. What a nightmare.

  37. #2387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seasport View Post
    Thanks! Looks like the triac is OK but the "on" control signal is still being sent to the board when the machine is turned off. Could it be a faulty sensor on the boiler? It appears that the boiler keeps on heating. I'm figuring the heat of the descale process has killed something. What a nightmare.
    That's a strange one then. On the machines that I have seen with constantly on boilers or group head, a new triac board has fixed the issue.

    There are optocouplers on the PCB, perhaps the steam boiler opto has shorted causing the triac to stay on. You can probably just replace the opto as well, or, replace the whole PCB.

  38. #2388
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    Hey everyone, my now several years old BES920 has suddenly decided to not turn on. I'm getting a little twitchy as I have not been able to get my morning fix!
    Have checked that all steam and water knobs are in the off position.Worked fine yesterday, just not wanting to play this morning... any suggestions, please??

  39. #2389
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    Not turn on as in no lights/sounds of any kind? Try another power point (and something else in that power point) and if that fails it'll need a tech to look at it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noidle22 View Post
    That's a strange one then. On the machines that I have seen with constantly on boilers or group head, a new triac board has fixed the issue.

    There are optocouplers on the PCB, perhaps the steam boiler opto has shorted causing the triac to stay on. You can probably just replace the opto as well, or, replace the whole PCB.
    Replaced the opto isolator chip and the Triac and everything is working again. The Triac self destructed during the testing (nothing I did - must have been shorted somewhere) taking out the mains fuse and some of the resistors on the board. All replaced and now back up and working. Seems too much of a coincidence that this happened straight after descaling. Maybe leaving the steam boiler on for a long period of time caused the Triac to fail.

    Thanks for your help.
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  41. #2391
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    Hi all, I was wondering if anyone has had similar experiences to me with my sage bes920uk and know a solution? I have two potentially related problems.

    The unit is about 3 years old and I regularly clean and annually descale.*

    (1)
    While doing a recent descale, I discovered the machine wouldn't let me go through the full sequence in that the display shows "valv" after I've replaced water in tank with descale solution and emptied the boilers. It's when I proceed to the next step (pressing the illuminated brew button) that "valv" is displayed. This makes it impossible to descale using the instructions.

    As a result I have tried to manually descale by turning off the machine and then back on and letting it fill the boilers with solution, leaving it to sit for a bit, then running the solution through the group head etc.

    I then switch off, then try to follow the descale instructions again in order to drain the boilers and flush - repeating this twice in order to flush the system.

    This doesn't permanently get rid of the "valv" message when going through the descale procedure.* I've contacted sage customer support and they suggested a descale (which I'm obviously having a hard time doing by following their instructions), then to contact their recommended repair partners for a quote.


    (2)
    After the above descale I found that the brew pump seems to be getting a bit "stuck" on the first shot after being turned on. Here is a video demonstrating it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJVu1-6ylLc

    I have repeated the above manual descale 3 times now, as I had thought there had been too much scale build up in the boilers originally and so the descale solution had become fairly saturated with minerals and had re-deposited them in the pump, hence causing it to be a bit "stuck".

    I note that most of the time the machine still displays "valv" on the display at the same stage in the official descale process, however there has been 2 instances where it hasn't - i.e. it appears to be working properly. I'm not noticing any pattern to it.* Certainly after a manual descale, the stuck pump appears to be improved for abot a dozen shots, but then it returns to the same behaviour as before - sticking on the first shot after being turned on.

    I'm handy and have replaced a bunch of the o-rings in the machine previously and an game to try a repair.* Any suggestions would be welcome. Thanks.

  42. #2392
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    It looks normal to me. What do you mean by stuck? The lower pressure at the start is the pre-infusion stage.

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    Thanks Seasport.

    No, that's not right. The pump is actually not operating at all until 8sec in. I know this coincides approx with the pre-infusion 100% level. The water you see coming out is just because a valve has been opened and not because the pump is operating.

    I know the pump is sticking, and that it is only un-sticking when it is near full power going to it.

    When pulling shots and the pump sticks, I've found that I get much less espresso out. First shot of the day with it stuck gets about 25%-50% of the volume of the second shot 2min later.

    I can work around the problem by pressing and holding my finger on the double shot button (bypassing pre-infusion). This has the effect of applying full power to the pump immediately and the pump un-sticks immediately, rather than slowly ramping up the power and un-sticking at 8sec in.

    Is there any chance the brew pump can accumulate scale internally?

    Thanks

  44. #2394
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    Quote Originally Posted by ActionJoeJackson View Post
    Thanks Seasport.

    No, that's not right. The pump is actually not operating at all until 8sec in. I know this coincides approx with the pre-infusion 100% level. The water you see coming out is just because a valve has been opened and not because the pump is operating.

    I know the pump is sticking, and that it is only un-sticking when it is near full power going to it.

    When pulling shots and the pump sticks, I've found that I get much less espresso out. First shot of the day with it stuck gets about 25%-50% of the volume of the second shot 2min later.

    I can work around the problem by pressing and holding my finger on the double shot button (bypassing pre-infusion). This has the effect of applying full power to the pump immediately and the pump un-sticks immediately, rather than slowly ramping up the power and un-sticking at 8sec in.

    Is there any chance the brew pump can accumulate scale internally?

    Thanks
    Got you. I see what you mean. On my machine, the pump operates for the first 8s but then ramps up for the rest of the 30s. Looks like your pump is not operating at all in the first 8s. Sorry, not sure what's causing this. The pump could be clogged up. Maybe they apply a lower voltage to the pump during the pre-infusion process? Not sure. Maybe time for a new pump.

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    Seen this post above?

    Originally Posted by robdridan
    My 920 is about 4 yrs old, typical 1 cup per day average. Lately it's started not priming during the pre infusion- sounds a little buzzy when attempting to pre infuse and no pressure, but them when main pressure kicks in its fine. Once 1 shot is poured pre infusion works fine also.

    So it's obviously losing water to low pressure pump for pre infusion and needs to be primed with a quick full pressure (usually hold single shot down). Regularly cleaned and escaped. Anything else I can do or 8s it needing a new pump?



    This is what mine began doing, (a nearly six year old -900), and eventually even doing the "main pressure" trick would no longer work. AND in my case, changing to a new pump didn't fix it, either. Breville USA offers a $350, off warranty service/repair charge which includes post both ways. So I paid it. They couldn't, or didn't think it was worth it to fix it, and they were out of factory refurbished machines, so they sent me a brand new in the box, -920.

    Point is, some of the Breville repairmen on this forum have had good luck fixing your problem by swapping in a new pump. New pumps are cheap and easy replace, so it's worth a try. But this did NOT work for me. And Breville USA didn't want to fix it either, so I wonder if there wasn't an issue with a controller on the main board? But that would be a guess.

    -Peter

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    Hi all, Looks like I have a blocked dual-wall 2 Cup filter. When I try to use it (even with no coffee in it), the pressure goes way up and next to no water comes out.

    I tried soaking it in cleaner for a few hours and that did the trick - it worked but then for one brew only! Now it's blocked again. I tried heating it over a gas flame as per internet search but it remains blocked.

    Any tips on how to clear it or should I just buy a new one?

  47. #2397
    Senior Member
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    I never use the dual wall filters. Can't you clear the holes with a needle point?

  48. #2398
    Junior Member
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    Oct 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry_Duncan View Post
    I never use the dual wall filters. Can't you clear the holes with a needle point?
    Will try this but there is only one tiny hole visible from the bottom. Tried unblocking this. It seems there are two steel plates in close proximity. The top plate has heaps of holes and the bottom one only a few but the two plates are pretty much touching. So must be relying on a small gap between them to generate the pressure.

    What grinder settings do you use for the single wall filter? Might try this. When I've tried previously, I get too little pressure. Bad technique I guess.

  49. #2399
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Nov 2013
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    I've never heard of anyone with a 240V machine not fixing the preinfusion problem by replacing the pump, as long as it's done no later than not long after the preinfusion stops working entirely.

    You should only clean basket holes with the included cleaning tool, one end has a cap that comes off with a tiny pin. The reason you should only use this pin is that the cleaning pin has parallel sides and won't damage the edges of the hole. If you stick a needle in it until stops the rounded sides of the needle will damage the edges of the hole and change the flow rate of the water through it. Heating with a blowtorch will warp the metal ever so slightly, again changing the size/shape of the hole and affecting the flow rate.

    If you get too little pressure with the single wall basket it is most likely due to the beans you are using being too old. If they were roasted within the last 6 weeks (note this has nothing to do with the expiry date) and still not getting enough pressure it's probably your grind not being fine enough.
    Seasport likes this.

  50. #2400
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    Sep 2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Not turn on as in no lights/sounds of any kind? Try another power point (and something else in that power point) and if that fails it'll need a tech to look at it.

    Cheers, nah, the PowerPoint was fine. Just this one visit to the tech vindicates my decision to get the 3xtended 5 year warranty.



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