Results 1 to 33 of 33
Like Tree46Likes
  • 1 Post By MrJack
  • 1 Post By TC
  • 1 Post By Fard
  • 1 Post By Journeyman
  • 1 Post By Rusty
  • 1 Post By Javaphile

Thread: Problem with EM7000 - Grind, tamp or other?

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    4

    Problem with EM7000 - Grind, tamp or other?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi,
    Long time lurker, first time poster.
    I have just bought an EM7000. My EM6910 lasted nearly 7 years before she needed to head to a well deserved retirement.
    I was hoping to upgrade to a Silvia + Rocky (or Gaggia or similar) but funds would not allow as we have just bought a house. We were able to get the Sunbeam espresso + grinder with redeemed rewards vouchers and my wish to learn the intricacies of the Silvia shall have to wait til another day!
    Any-who, after 6-7yrs of pulling shots on the 6910 I'm sure you can imagine I was able to do them almost in my sleep (which I'm sure I did many a time since two kids have arrived in the time we had owned her).
    Now I am struggling and am hoping to receive some sound advice (other than to just save up).
    This is my problem:
    When a single shot is pouring the pressure gauge sits in the orange (boarding on red zone), the espresso drips out. The pour is rich in colour but the crema is thin and dissipates too quickly.
    I feel the grind is too coarse.
    I think my tamp is too heavy but the shot seems sour to me.
    The puck has good form (maybe too tight?).
    I've tried grinding finer and reducing my tamp pressure but the puck taps out sloppy.

    Please help with with your thoughts/ advice so I can enjoy my morning coffee without disappointment again.

    ps. Although I still regard myself a novice, I have used other machine in the past too (incl commercial).

  2. #2
    Senior Member shapeshifter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Newcastle
    Posts
    726
    What beans are you using, how old, where from?

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    4
    Campos; bought from popular local cafe. Being popular, I assume they wouldn't have beans sitting on the shelf for too long.
    I too wondered if it may be that the beans are too old but we have used beans from the same place about two weeks ago at a friends' place and the coffees produced were fine.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    979
    If you are worried about sloppy pucks just increase the dose. Aim to get 15-20gm of coffee in 25-28 seconds for a single shot. Its hard to say from your description if things are running too fast or too slow. Thin and weak creme also rings some bells for possible channeling. Single baskets can be a bit more challenging.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,376
    Have a crack at grinding coarser, but keeping the grind mass the same.
    bissym likes this.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Vinitasse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Mornington Peninsula VIC
    Posts
    1,251
    Quote Originally Posted by bissym View Post
    Campos; bought from popular local cafe. Being popular, I assume they wouldn't have beans sitting on the shelf for too long.
    I too wondered if it may be that the beans are too old but we have used beans from the same place about two weeks ago at a friends' place and the coffees produced were fine.
    Not always the safest of assumptions. If the staff at the cafe were doing their jobs properly, they would be rotating the stock by pulling older bags of beans forward and, as such, quite often the bags front and centre on the shelf are the oldest ones there. It's always best to check the roasting date if at all possible.

  7. #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    4
    Thanks for the suggestions.
    Too slow muppet_man. The pressure gauge doesn't go into the red but for how slow it's coming out I'm checking the gauge fully expecting it to.
    Def. cannot increase dose, maybe my dose is too much and I'm packing it to tightly...but then I'd expect the pressure gauge to red line.
    If it was channelling, would it be dripping rather than 'honey'?
    I will give an even coarser grind a go...

    I miss crema

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    4
    All this research made me curious so...even though it's 10pm I couldn't help myself. Ha!
    I think the problem is bean age and my tamping pressure.
    Checked:
    * changed the beans - roasted 7 days ago...not sure date on previous bag :/
    * grind - really don't want to increase coarseness there but will try one click up tmw morning.
    * my dosing (which is fine, shouldn't haven't doubted myself there).
    * tamping (was slightly too hard I think).

    Result: much smoother taste, no sourness, crema much better but will hopefully increase with time as we get to know each other...still haven't had machine for a week yet.

    Can you take beans back to the shop? Bought them on Saturday.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    North Shore, Sydney
    Posts
    47
    I bought Campos for 2 years in Lane Cove, quite a good bean. They have roast date label that I can even choose anyone of them (they are all within 1 week), I only get 250g for use in 2 weeks. Most of my pulls got beautiful crema, but its double basket and light tamp with finer grind. hope it helps

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    274
    Are you having any issues getting the double shot right also?

    the nature of the single baskets makes them a pain in the butt to use your usual grind, dose, tamp techniques.
    I found that with my 6910 i could use the same grind setting, but it needed to be dosed right up with a lighter tamp,
    When the puck swelled with water, it provided more resistance against the shower-screen.
    as such the pucks were never solid like a double with full weight tamp would be.
    Using a full weight tamp would just choke the machine

    I use the same technique with my new Lelit PL60 and I can get consistent singles without choking the machine or needing to change the grinder.
    but i rarely use the single basket anyway, it's only an option if you have an odd number of people to make coffee for at once,
    but I'll just prepare a normal double and stop the shot short (usually keeping this one for myself.. )

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    46
    I am in the same boat. Having no trouble in pulling a great shot(s) with the double basket but all sorts of issues with the single basket.
    I have read on this site that there are some after market baskets available that could help is this the case? I have only just purchased the 7000 yesterday after 6 years with the 6910. I also purchased at the same time the new EM 0700 grinder, very impressed with this straight out of the box on a double a 35 sec pour and almost perfect shot. Just a pain in the backside if I have to change grind settings each time in need a single shot. Any help will be great.

  12. #12
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665
    Quote Originally Posted by Fard View Post
    I am in the same boat. Having no trouble in pulling a great shot(s) with the double basket but all sorts of issues with the single basket.
    I have read on this site that there are some after market baskets available that could help is this the case? I have only just purchased the 7000 yesterday after 6 years with the 6910. I also purchased at the same time the new EM 0700 grinder, very impressed with this straight out of the box on a double a 35 sec pour and almost perfect shot. Just a pain in the backside if I have to change grind settings each time in need a single shot. Any help will be great.
    G'day Fard. It's an age old problem caused in part by the fact that a single is never 1/2 a double. Those (very few) who bother to use them at the coal face generally compensate with dose, rather than grind- but as you have found, you can actually do either.

    I compensated by throwing my singles in the bin many years ago and I don't miss them at all. FWIW, buying an alternate single is unlikely to present you will a bullseye which requires no change in technique from that which you use with your double.
    Fard likes this.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    G'day Fard. It's an age old problem caused in part by the fact that a single is never 1/2 a double. Those (very few) who bother to use them at the coal face generally compensate with dose, rather than grind- but as you have found, you can actually do either.

    I compensated by throwing my singles in the bin many years ago and I don't miss them at all. FWIW, buying an alternate single is unlikely to present you will a bullseye which requires no change in technique from that which you use with your double.
    Thanks Talk Coffee,
    I will compensate the same way was you have done and toss them in the junk draw and work with only the double.
    Andy likes this.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Journeyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Bendigo
    Posts
    1,029
    Quote Originally Posted by Fard View Post
    I have read on this site that there are some after market baskets available that could help is this the case?
    That's probably VST baskets - one of the design criteria was apparently to ensure all sizes could be used with the same grind rather than having to adjust for each basket. But even with them, the single is a bit problematic to use. (I don't have one yet, just going by others' experiences)

    I have a 15g and a 22g VST and they both extract very nicely with the same grind.
    Fard likes this.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    46
    Thanks Journeyman I may look into the 15 and 22 myself.

  16. #16
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    22
    argh same issue...just upgraded my old Breville Café Venezia BES250 to a Sunbeam EM7000 and can not for the life of me make a good coffee on this thing.

    Switched from the single shot to double shot and I am much closer to what I was getting on the Breville, but its much stronger (more bitter and less creme) than I was used to as I think the basket is much bigger.

    Using fresh beans roasted a few days ago and Sunbeam EMO440 to grind.

    Should I be using the 2 cup auto program thing ?

  17. #17
    Senior Member Journeyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Bendigo
    Posts
    1,029
    It is a very different machine, which means you're back to Grind/Dose/Tamp process. But the EM7000 seems a more powerful shot-maker than the EM6910 so there is a possibility you're grinding finer than you need to for the 7000 and the machine is still extracting.

    Given the results I get from my 7000, the implication would be you've been drinking rather weak coffee up till now. But bitter taste implies over-extracted - how long is it taking to get your shot and how big is the shot in the double? Is the crema good?

    What is your process like? I've learned to drop the dose below the recommended levels and also use progressive tamping at a much lighter level than the normal tamping method.

  18. #18
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    22
    Made a coffee this morning, pressure on the gauge is right in the middle of orange where it should be but the pour takes about 40 seconds which is what about 10 seconds to long? This is with double basket and 2 cup function button.

    Should I grind coarser until its pouring in 30 seconds? Or is this just going to drop the pressure below idle?

    Taste of the coffee was less bitter and closer to where I want it but certainly not perfect.

    I don't steam milk, just 30 second in the microwave and pour the coffee straight into the warm milk in the cup.

    Has anyone written a guide anywhere on how to systematically test the Grind/Dose/Tamp/Pour to get the perfect coffee on any machine?

  19. #19
    Senior Member Journeyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Bendigo
    Posts
    1,029
    The gauge is, at best, merely an indicator, accurate mainly with itself. i.e. when you find the perfect shot, the gauge might be almost anywhere on the scale - and the next good shot will be around the same. Mine does best with pressure a little above the top of the colour segments.

    Sounds like you're getting in the range. You could try 1 step finer and tamp a lot lighter than the 15kg or so and see how that goes. I have had blissful coffees pour in 45secs and even 1 or 2 that took maybe 60secs with no sign of blonding and tasted great. Again the time of 60ml in 25secs is just an indicator - depends on the bean, the grind, the machine and your tamping.

    Something to remember - most grinders adjust best when either empty of beans or when running. It confused the hell out of me for a while as I would make an adjustment and either see no change or even have it go the wrong way. One good thing about an EM0480 grinder is the switch at the side - you can flick it up and the grinder runs while you use both hands to adjust. It's a bit awkward with the EM0450/440 to try to press the button and still adjust things. (not sure which grinder you have)

    I usually just empty it, clean any stuck beans from the grind surfaces and make the adjustment - experience usually means I get it right within one or at most two adjustments, but it's a bit of a piss off to empty, adjust, fill, grind, empty, adjust etc. Makes for fast learning.

    I've also found the SB baskets seem to work better with the tamped coffee at least 4mm down. With both the 6910 version and the 7000 version, that sits the ground weight at about 15g - 16g. (my scales only do gram accuracy)

    Discussions based on the following paragraph have been moved here. Further posts based on the following paragraph will be deleted.

    A word of warning - one of the worst things to microwave is milk. MW works by breaking apart molecules to release heat and some milk byproducts are toxic. Also, the reason why there's a 'best' temp for frothing milk is to avoid getting the milk to where it begins to break down. The steamer on the 7000 is pretty good, so it isn't really much of a chore to use.
    Last edited by Javaphile; 19th June 2014 at 11:16 AM. Reason: Off topic discussion moved

  20. #20
    Senior Member Rusty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Carlingford NSW
    Posts
    691
    Quote Originally Posted by noise36 View Post
    Made a coffee this morning, pressure on the gauge is right in the middle of orange where it should be but the pour takes about 40 seconds which is what about 10 seconds to long? This is with double basket and 2 cup function button.

    Should I grind coarser until its pouring in 30 seconds? Or is this just going to drop the pressure below idle?

    Taste of the coffee was less bitter and closer to where I want it but certainly not perfect.

    I don't steam milk, just 30 second in the microwave and pour the coffee straight into the warm milk in the cup.

    Has anyone written a guide anywhere on how to systematically test the Grind/Dose/Tamp/Pour to get the perfect coffee on any machine?
    Good coffee is made in a preheated machine in warm cups. Always run some hot water through your machine first.

    You are looking for in an ideal pour which is a rich dark reddish brown honey syrup like drippy suspended, oozy lava like, you get the picture, that’s espresso.


    Depending on the brand and freshness of coffee, the time to brew a shot should take 18-30 seconds. Time the shot from when you hit the switch until the top of the crema reaches the 20 to 30 mil line on the shot glass. Stop the shot if the crema turns pale.

    Ideal extraction will produce a full and persistent crema.
    Little or no crema indicates that the grind is too fine.
    A full crema that dissipates quickly indicates the grind is too coarse.

    If your shot is pouring too fast.
    And the colour is quite pale then usually the coffee grind is too coarse
    - needs to be a ground finer.

    OR there is not enough coffee in the handle
    - increase dose.

    OR the machine group head and or group handle is not hot enough
    - run hot water through the group head before brewing.

    If the shot is taking too long.
    You are burning the coffee - the grind is too fine
    - needs to be ground coarser.

    OR you are overdosing.
    - use less coffee


    Standardize the following:
    Dose
    Tamp

    Vary;
    Only the grind
    zeezaw likes this.

  21. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    46
    Time to get back on track sorry. Just pulled a shot out if the 7000. Tried different grind setting on the EM 700.
    The setting is on 18. It gave my best shot yet nice and syrupy over 30 sec. The manual for the grinder says 7 to 15 so sitting just outside this.
    This was done with a dbl basket. Will now try the single and use a lighter tamp.

  22. #22
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Earth!
    Posts
    15,582
    Off topic posts have been moved here: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/off-topic/...k-bad-you.html


    Java "7000 What?" phile
    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

  23. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    46
    Quote Originally Posted by Javaphile View Post
    Off topic posts have been moved here: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/off-topic/...k-bad-you.html


    Java "7000 What?" phile
    Great idea but you moved my post that was on topic with all the others.

  24. #24
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Earth!
    Posts
    15,582
    Quote Originally Posted by Fard View Post
    Great idea but you moved my post that was on topic with all the others.
    All nicely back in its proper place.


    Java "Move what?" phile
    Fard likes this.
    Toys! I must have new toys!!!

  25. #25
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    3
    hi all, i'm new here and i am happy that i have found this place

    i have just purchased the em7000 along with the smart grinder 820. And i have few of questions:

    1- does your espresso machines make a "clicking" sound every ~7 seconds when it is on?
    2- each time i pour a shot the "coffee biscuit"<--- not sure what's it called, got stock in the group head ?? can you think of a reason why is this happening?
    3- i tried to back flush the machine but water would come out just as you are pouring a shot and the pressure don't reach the grey zone <-- is that normal?

    thanks in advance
    Last edited by eeboo; 19th June 2014 at 03:59 PM.

  26. #26
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by eeboo View Post
    hi all, i'm new here and i am happy that i have found this place
    1- does your espresso machines make a "clicking" sound every ~7 seconds when it is on?
    Yes, that seems normal to me, normally you can hear the thermostat cutting the heating elements in and out, that would be called a clicking noise.

    Quote Originally Posted by eeboo View Post
    2- each time i pour a shot the "coffee biscuit"<--- not sure what's it called, got stock in the group head ?? can you think of a reason why is this happening?
    That's not normal, not sure why

    Quote Originally Posted by eeboo View Post
    3- i tried to back flush the machine but water would come out just as you are pouring a shot and the pressure don't reach the grey zone <-- is that normal?
    thanks in advance
    Sounds like it may be a poor seal between the group head and portafilla? maybe related to the above issue ? More descriptive information?

  27. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    274
    My 6910 used to stick to the shower screen ONLY IF i over-loaded the basket

  28. #28
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Moonta SA.
    Posts
    6,866
    Quote Originally Posted by Robbks View Post
    My 6910 used to stick to the shower screen ONLY IF i over-loaded the basket
    I suspect Robbks is correct, sounds like over dosing to me.

    Check this out http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...ents-test.html the 5 cent piece test will get you into the ballpark and should help solve your problem.

  29. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,376
    Quote Originally Posted by eeboo View Post
    3- i tried to back flush the machine but water would come out just as you are pouring a shot and the pressure don't reach the grey zone <-- is that normal?

    thanks in advance
    Silly question, but are you using a blind filter or backflush insert, or just using an empty filter basket?

  30. #30
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    3
    Not silly at all, I am using an insert.

  31. #31
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    3
    Bty i just wanna say thanks for the responds. I really feel overwhelmed !

  32. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    274
    The insert has a hole in it so that people who don;t really know whet they're doing, don;t end up over-pressurising everything for a long period of time. As the machine doesn't have an OPV (Over Pressure Valve)
    The backflush still works though

  33. #33
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Earth!
    Posts
    15,582
    Off topic post has been moved here.


    Java "Moved!" phile
    Toys! I must have new toys!!!



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •