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Thread: Single Boiler PID vs E61 temperature stability

  1. #1
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    Single Boiler PID vs E61 temperature stability

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi,

    I have done a quick search on the forums but can't find a definitive answer:
    Does a PID on a single boiler machine (Silvia etc) provide better temperature stability than an E61 on a single boiler?
    If so does the large thermal mass of the E61 provide any other advantages to shot consistency?
    Just curious.
    thanks
    Taan

  2. #2
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    To answer my own question, the temperature stability at the point of measurement will be more stable with a PID. The E61 allows for reliable pre-infusion.

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    Is this thread about intrashot temp stability or multiple shots consistency? Recovery time a factor in this discussion? as far as I know, E61 single boiler machines are HX and are usually the next step upgrade from small single boiler machines like Silvia and Gaggia.

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    Thanks for that. There are quite a number of single boiler machines with E-61 group head that are not HX machines (eg Diadema Perfetta). I guess I was really asking if you could pull more consistent shots from a single boiler with PID or with E-61, only taking those two factors into account. But it's possibly not a very relevant question as other factors in the machine make it impossible to do an apples for apples comparison - boiler size, build quality etc.
    Taan

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    I have a Gaggia Classic with an Auber PID for brew and steam. My shots are pretty consistent but recovery time between shots is no less than 4 minutes. I am not sure if the recovery time on a Silvia with PID is shorter considering the relatively bigger boiler.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saeco_user View Post
    I guess I was really asking if you could pull more consistent shots from a single boiler with PID or with E-61, only taking those two factors into account. But it's possibly not a very relevant question as other factors in the machine make it impossible to do an apples for apples comparison - boiler size, build quality etc.
    Taan
    I think it's a relevant question. Of course you could have both. I have an Isomac Zaffiro (larger capacity E61 single boiler). I have no intention of adding a PID but I know that sometimes people with Zaffiros do. I would be interested in knowing more about the ideal recovery time.

  7. #7
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    G'day Taan...

    Don't know about one being better than the other but certainly within the same ballpark, so long as the PID/SSR installation is given adequate consideration to obtaining best performance...

    Mal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JojoS View Post
    I have a Gaggia Classic with an Auber PID for brew and steam. My shots are pretty consistent but recovery time between shots is no less than 4 minutes. I am not sure if the recovery time on a Silvia with PID is shorter considering the relatively bigger boiler.
    G'day JojoS...

    Four minutes recovery time between shots sounds fairly excessive from my experience mate.
    Do you have a link to a thread describing your installation with photos? Or, maybe describe your
    installation with photos here...

    Model details of your Auber Controller would be handy and that of your P.I.D. parameter settings
    too if possible. Should be getting much better performance than what you describe.

    For example, with an Imat Mokita I once owned, performance during a pour was nothing short
    of excellent, being a Temperature Droop of less than 1.0C for the duration of the shot. Recovery
    between shots was also excellent with zero wait time. In fact, you could pull a string of shots,
    one after the other, with no degradation of performance. The short time it takes to knock-out,
    clean, grind, dose, distribute and tamp was all the time necessary to recover the lost 1.0C from
    the previous shot.

    If you need to prepare several milk coffees, then the usual caveats apply when using a Single Boiler,
    Dual Purpose machine. You need to prime the Boiler after every Steaming Session, which is usually
    every two milk coffee prep's. I used the PID Controller for Steam Control too, as this is by far the
    best way to maintain consistently high quality, high pressure and dry Steam. After each milk
    texturing session (and after boiler priming) and heading back into espresso pour mode, you need
    to flush some cooling water through the Boiler to ensure a quick return to Brew Water Temp.

    Found that the above worked well for me and if a particularly large group of relos or friends need
    to be catered for re: milk coffees, then milk was warmed up on the stove and everyone enjoyed
    Flat White coffees. Never had a complaint....

    Anyway, a very brief summary of my own experience...

    Mal.

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    The recovery time I mentioned is purely based on Auber's recommendation based on their tests. My PID parameters are set on Auber's default settings. I make my lattes one at a time on a daily basis, first for my wife who insist on a single shot but I pull a double so I have a single espresso to enjoy and determine if a grinder adjustment is needed. The usual cooling flush after steaming then enjoying my single shot. Before I know it, more than enough time have lapsed before I get back to making my double shot latte for myself. The equivalent of a triple espresso is how I like to start my day.

  10. #10
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    No worries...

    If you're happy with how things are, then that's all good...

    Mal.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    No worries...

    If you're happy with how things are, then that's all good...

    Mal.
    Yes I am happy with my espresso setup and the skill that I have acquired over the time I have spent honing it. I still dream of a Cremina and HG One once in a while.
    Dimal likes this.



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