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Thread: Sunbeam EM6910 ,playing up!

  1. #1
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    Sunbeam EM6910 ,playing up!

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hello coffee loving people,
    Now I should be able to fault find this machine's problems however,I'm presently not in the ideal place to do that on this occasion.
    This machine has arrived and it's 's history is this:
    Machine would leak all over the bench when turned on,sorted!
    Silicone hose to main pump was fractured just below the zip cable tie,I readjusted the bend of the hose and trimmed excess and re-secured the hose.
    The main problem is machine will begin to heat up and then unexpectedly short out the circuit breaker.
    At this point there is no water causing this short that I can identify,I wish to pick the collective brains as to what should I look at first,as possible reason?
    I have another machine that will serve as components to exchange parts to eventually locate the source however,in an attempt to quickly locate the troublesome cause,what would the first suggestion be to check?
    All helpful assistance is most appreciated,thank you.
    Kind Regards,
    Mick.

  2. #2
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    G'day Mick

    My first steps for any machine with that issue are
    1) out with the multimeter & look for shorts or unusual resistance values - usually the latter from your symptoms. Wriggling the parts at the time may help identify the culprit.
    2) Spray everything in sight with circuit cleaner - does the behaviour change?
    After that, onto the bench and start tearing it down.

    Good luck.

    TampIt

  3. #3
    Senior Member Xanthine's Avatar
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    Hi Mick
    Not sure if it is taking out the earth leakage breaker or the normal breaker. If it is earth leakage it could just be due to condensation - you could try drying the machine out for an hour or two in a hot car sitting in the sun or with a hair dryer then re-trying. The heating elements in all these machines, by their nature, tend to leak current to earth and the condensation in the machine could be just taking it over the edge.
    Trev

  4. #4
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    TampIt and Xanthine,
    Thanks for you prompt input,yes to the earth leakage tripping rather then over current,I'll open the case right up and go through as per your advice,thanks again.
    I have a spare circuit board which I can use as replacement to eliminate the possibility of failing circuit components (TampIt).
    Cheers,
    Mick

  5. #5
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    If you have an insulation tester you can quickly check the water solenoid coil and the two coils that run the steam and water pumps. Intermittent fails trip the RCD even if the ohm meter registers acceptable resistance.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Xanthine's Avatar
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    Just watch out for the pump coils. They have inbuilt diodes in series with the coil - not sure what their max reverse voltage is but 1000v setting on megger may be too much if put across the terminals.
    They are also a trap when measuring their continuity as they show o/c in one direction or odd readings with some DVMs on resistance ranges. Best to use the diode test setting on DVM (for continuity not leakage!)

  7. #7
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    Good point! I set my Megger on 250v for a sustained test although I've yet to fry one at 500v for long enough to obtain a reading.

  8. #8
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    The Ulkas have a terminal that depicts diode direction on the male spade terminal: I'll take an image of a spare I have on the bench.

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    sprezzatura/Xanthine,
    Thanks for the hint,my megger too has the 250/500/1000 volt range,I'll be careful not to fry any coils, I too have seen the directional symbols on the pumps,most important.
    Its great to have such competent advisors on hand,many thanks.
    cheers,
    mick.

  10. #10
    Senior Member sprezzatura's Avatar
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    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1445599292.311447.jpg

    Here's the water pump forward bias measurement. Switch leads to get a OL (hopefully)

  11. #11
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    My 6910 was doing the same thing. Traced it to a fractured solenoid valve.
    Xanthine likes this.

  12. #12
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    gruntguru,
    Interesting challenge it was too,turned out to be a fractured tube liner of the solenoid in three way valve which then appears to have directed excessive pressure to the steam pump,this resulted in distorting the plastic body of the UKLA steam pump,allowing water to pour into the base of the machine.
    Replaced both the complete three way assembly together with the steam pump.(both from functioning second hand machines).
    No leaks and or shorting now,with the result owner is again, happy and contented.
    Cheers,
    Mick.
    Xanthine likes this.

  13. #13
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    Hello again,
    Now I will need some additional (operational) replacement parts to return my donor em6910 to fully operational condition.
    As seen in the attached image,steam pump plastic body has been deformed to the point of serious leakage and solenoid liner was found to be fractured,I haven't seen that happen before.
    Parts required are both items,so what do you think you could assist me with?
    Very happy to pay general postage to 3690 for these parts,most appreciated if someone has these available.
    Cheers,
    Mick.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #14
    Senior Member noidle22's Avatar
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    I can supply these but unfortunately I can't do it cheap as the parts will be brand new. Send me a message if you are interested and I'll see what sort of deal I can do.

    I had a 6910 in store today with this problem, it's very common and also dangerous as well as causing damage to other components usually.

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    noidle22,
    Thank you for kind offer however,playing with espresso machines in more of a leisure activity for me,having purchased ,on one occasion,five (four em6910's one em6900) of these machines for $80.00 of which you received the only non viable corpse (in bits).
    My present machine had to donate it's two missing parts to allow a collegue's machine to live again,successfully.
    I am very grateful for your offer however,I will probably go the E or Gum way again and pick another sunbeam (or two) at a price too good to refuse.
    Kind regards,
    And Cheers,
    Mick,

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mulquemi View Post
    noidle22,
    Thank you for kind offer however,playing with espresso machines in more of a leisure activity for me,having purchased ,on one occasion,five (four em6910's one em6900) of these machines for $80.00 of which you received the only non viable corpse (in bits).
    My present machine had to donate it's two missing parts to allow a collegue's machine to live again,successfully.
    I am very grateful for your offer however,I will probably go the E or Gum way again and pick another sunbeam (or two) at a price too good to refuse.
    Kind regards,
    And Cheers,
    Mick,
    G'day Mick

    Good timing mate. I have to go near CC today anyway, I will see what I can scrounge for you. Yours for the cost of postage if I am successful. FWIW, I do have a used steam pump here together with an "iffy" steam controller knob (both from a 7000). Definitely no 3-way solenoid.

    TampIt

  17. #17
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    Tampit,
    Thank you for your consideration,again most appreciated,parts as per the image (above) can't see I would have much use for the em7000 gear unless i can shoehorn them in,to 3690 pack and post ,wouldn't be too expensive ...would it.
    What ever you have I probably use one way or another eventually.
    Cheers,
    Mick.
    Unsure whether you have my address or not otherwise I can Pm' it!

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    Poor Sunbeam 6910 (again)

    Hello again,
    Just reporting back with outcome of my rebuild,I was lucky to have one of my earlier 6900's return (exchange for upgrade)which I then gutted for it's steam pump and three way valve and despite the fact this earlier model is slightly different,everything is working with my 6910 again........beautiful coffee again with steam ,steam and more then enough steam.
    This is particular 6910 that went for a fall recently and I advertised it here then moved on to a southern Victorian who didn't like it and eventually returned it for refund,actually couldn't find anything wrong with it at all.This machine actually gave up it's solenoil valve and steam pump,as mentioned earlier.
    I really believe my machine is a little less noisy now,with the replacement of the steam pump with the flexable braided hose ,rather then the solid copper connection.
    Well I'm quite pleased my sunbeam is back again,despite it's less then porportional appearance (fall damage),they are great machines though occasionally these models can give some grief,overall I reckon they are a great and very functional (albeit noisy) coffee maker.
    Cheer's,
    Mick.

  19. #19
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    Another great result. Yep, the 6910 can pull great shots if minimum maintenance standards are followed. A friend recently bought a week5 2008 one - more grunt than any other 6910 / 7000 out there I have played with. Outstanding for the money ($200 seems to be the going rate for a decent one) - and really noisy...

    TampIt

  20. #20
    Senior Member noidle22's Avatar
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    Be careful with the EM6900 pump, it has no relief valve. When you shut the steam tap, the pump cannot relieve the pressure between the pump outlet and tap, this can damage the pump over time.

    To remedy this, just leave the steam tap slightly open (as to be open but not engaging the switch) to vent the residual pressure. Once vented, you can shut the tap.

  21. #21
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    noidle22,
    Thanks for that,strange thing was I didn't even consider they were any different as I did compare both the failed unit (from 6910) with the valve from the 6900 and to me,appeared identical in every way,has there been any time in the evolution of these machines that an improved solenoid valve made it's appearance or just with the introduction of EM6910?
    The issue of excessive pressure on the pump wouldn't bothered me at anytime because I've learned to (every steamer use)must be proceeded by the obligeratory easing off of pressure before switching off knob , after removing wand from frothed milk.
    Thanks again for your support.
    Cheer's,
    Mick.
    (Tampit) quick question,without notice,how is one to determine the age of build of a machine?
    Last edited by mulquemi; 20th November 2015 at 01:52 PM. Reason: additional query!

  22. #22
    Senior Member noidle22's Avatar
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    The solenoids are the same but the steam pump is different.
    The EM6900 used a small Ulka pump with the black flex hose and the 6910 used a Chinese manufactured pump from several manufacturers.

    Easy ways to date the machine:

    2007-2009/2010 (i think they were released in 07, not sure):
    Dull silver drip tray, round float in the drip tray, small raised metal bits on the steam and hot water wands

    2009/2010-2014: Shiny silver drip tray, oval float in drip tray, rounded steam wand tip and flat hot water tip

    There were machines manufactured in the changeover period of the old and new types that sometimes shared several components.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Xanthine's Avatar
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    Hi Tamplt

    A friend recently bought a week5 2008 one
    How did you date this machine? - I think I have read somewhere that it is possible to do this from the serial number under the barcode on the back panel under the door.

    Trev

  24. #24
    Senior Member noidle22's Avatar
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    All Sunbeam products have a date of manufacture stamped on them.
    I've never investigated the format even though i see them everyday but if it's the same as other manufacturers, the format is week of manufacture then year.

    For example, a week 5 of 2008 model would have the date of manufacture as 058.
    Once the products hit 2010, the DOM changed to 4 digits.

    I'll confirm if this is the correct way to read the DOM's.
    I always write them on my warranty claims but never really pay attention to them.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Xanthine's Avatar
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    Aha! - now I understand.
    It seems I was close, but not close enough.
    I was looking at the barcode number which is obviously the serial number.
    It was not until I got a torch and examined the black "Caution" label underneath that I spotted the three digit number stamped into it - in this case "397".
    It's obviously one of the early 6910s so it explains why the insides looked a bit the worse for wear - steam pump has been replaced as evidenced by the cut through the upper rubber mount but it did have a handwritten label stuck inside the back panel listing some of the services carried out on it and the control board may have been replaced judging by the screws used in the bottom mounts.
    Thanks for the info noidle - much appreciated.

    Trev

  26. #26
    Senior Member noidle22's Avatar
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    I hate the cut mount shortcut when people replace the steam pump. It's literally only an extra 30 seconds or so to do the job properly.
    I've seen machines that have come from other Sunbeam service centres with this done. It's shameful that a business representing the Sunbeam brand see fit to carry out repairs like that.

    I saw another machine from the same service centre actually, they replaced the collar and not only did they snap one of the collar to thermoblock screws upon reassembly, they totally forgot to install the 4 screws to mount the collar to the chassis.
    I made sure to call Sunbeam and tell them that one.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by noidle22 View Post
    I hate the cut mount shortcut when people replace the steam pump. It's literally only an extra 30 seconds or so to do the job properly.
    I've seen machines that have come from other Sunbeam service centres with this done. It's shameful that a business representing the Sunbeam brand see fit to carry out repairs like that.

    I saw another machine from the same service centre actually, they replaced the collar and not only did they snap one of the collar to thermoblock screws upon reassembly, they totally forgot to install the 4 screws to mount the collar to the chassis.
    I made sure to call Sunbeam and tell them that one.
    G'day Noidle

    After years of working with precision electronics and military grade computer parts I know how frustrating it is to have to fix some amateur's stuff up when an initial 5 minute problem can morph into hours of my time. As a result I used to have a policy of not pulling machines under warranty apart, no matter what aggravation ensued. A true repair shocker changed all that as far as coffee machines go!

    The only reason I got into the mechanics of a 6910 was a 5 senses SNAFU well above and beyond the usual bad service incompetence of really poor organisations. They used a 6900 collar which they presumably had lying around somewhere. Undeterred by the completely different & utterly incompatible mounting points, as I am sure you know, they proceeded anyway to fit it into my 6910. To further demonstrate their "initiative" they then warped the 6910 frame and used a variety of mismatched self tappers to enforce a merger. Needless to say it leaked like a sieve after a few days and they refused to fix it. The flood also damaged the kitchen bench badly by running under the bench and rotting the particle board. Luckily for 5 senses I was up to my neck in the bitter legal divorce from from ex-wife 2 so I did not have the time to pursue it further at that time. Moreover, also fortunately for them, I didn't see the bench damage until months later - why would you look when the top was OK? We had not managed even a minor spill apart from the 6910 leak (still haven't, it is not the normal working surface of that kitchen).

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...tml#post507869 has the whole sordid saga.

    Needless to say, hell will freeze over before I use 5 senses for anything again. Incompetent neanderthals... and that is on a good day. SB themselves were also unusually useless on that occasion. I now do my own 6910 work and refer friends to Perth's other SB quality service people. Personally, I recommend the one located at Hilton for any CS'r's in Perth area.

    The 5 senses "effort" still rates as the most botched repair job I have ever encountered in ANY industry. Considering I come from two families of engineers and I have seen many shockers which actually resulted in deaths it is a pretty amazing achievement for 5 senses to notch up. Their unwillingness to even attempt a fix reminds me of certain shoddy home builders (wreckers?).



    TampIt







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