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Thread: Le'Lit PL60 vs Nuovo Simonelli Oscar

  1. #1
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    Le'Lit PL60 vs Nuovo Simonelli Oscar

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I've had a look at both of these machines online but so far have not had any direct experience with them.

    I'm leaning somewhat towards the Le'Lit and not just because of appearances, but more because it's a dual boiler machine.

    Has anyone who has had experience with these two machines could elaborate on the major differences?

    I know the Oscar is a HX type machine. I am aware the PL60 has no PID. Does the lack of a PID make any appreciable difference in the quality of the shots?

    I think the idea of two separate boilers makes some sense as it keeps them at two different temps/pressures so that should at least in theory eliminate any bitter shots from overheated water going through the extraction.

    I have been thinking that the Le'Lit offers better value for money. I have spoken to Brad at JetBlack and the Le'Lit looks like it's the better deal for me, but I wanted to know more about these machines from others who have used them with regards to power consumption, shots, which grinder is most suitable and what I can expect out of these machines in terms of espresso and milk drinks.

    I am aware the dual boiler machine will use twice the power of the HX machine and that is a consideration for me as well.

  2. #2
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    I still think the PL60 is the better choice. I've had a look at the differences between HX and DB machines and the DB machines tend to be more reliable than HX machines. The only benefit of the HX machine is lower power consumption. The Oscar only uses 1200w whereas most dual boilers use over 2000w.

  3. #3
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    There's a lot more to it than that mate....

    Way better (for you) to head into a specialist retailer such as one of our Site Sponsors (Jet Black for instance), and try the different machines out for yourself....

    More than just the numbers,
    Mal.

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    I've already planned to drop in and check out the machines, especially the PL60. I think this one might be my best bet.

    Strangely enough I was considering the Breville Dynamic Duo before I stumbled across the Oscar...but now the PL60 looks like a better deal.

  5. #5
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    The oscar doesn't have an anti vac valve (unless it's changed recently?) which is a pita as you can't use a timer and need to attend to it to while it heats up initially.

    Power wise I would guess they both use similar amount of water stores which would use a similar amount of energy to heat up and keep warm, so power usage should be similar. The lelit has two elements so it's rating is higher but you would expect it to heat the water quicker.

    Cheers

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    The lack of an anti-vac valve on the Oscar is a big let down. I plan to use a timer to get it ready for when I wake up so the Le'Lit is the better of the two for me.

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    The anti vac valve can easily be fitted and it is cheap (and easy) to do...but if you're willing to spend money on a dual boiler then that's what I would do.
    Oscars do produce good espresso though if you have a good grinder. Crazy steam too. Lelit make nice machines. I used to own a lower end model and the simplicity of the internal design is a real winner and a safe bet.
    Personally I wouldn't like the idea of having a db without a PID. I would be adding that cost into the equation.
    Try to find a way to play with both if you can before making a decision.

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    Is there any major difference between a PID and non-PID Lelit double-boiler? I would think the differences would be minimal, but of course I could be entirely wrong.

  9. #9
    TC
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    Quote Originally Posted by benj2008 View Post
    Is there any major difference between a PID and non-PID Lelit double-boiler? I would think the differences would be minimal, but of course I could be entirely wrong.
    Yes benj, there is a heap of difference.

    Firstly, the PID DB version (P60T V2) employs a 58mm group. Accessories are much more more common than for the 57mm non PID PL60. In addition the non PID version uses bimetallic strip thermostats on the brew boiler. This leads to significant fluctuation in brew temp unless brew temperature is managed by the user. Nevertheless, I have been known to say that I'd back myself on the PL60 over a less well trained user of a P60T V2.

    There is a $500 difference, but that goes into the cost of the PID and SSR as well as the more expensive group.

    Hope that helps....

    Chris
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    Looks like I'll spring for the Vibiemme Domobar Jr or the Expobar Leva...
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    I would be most interested to find out what your decision is in the end. It seems that many of us go through the same thinking process along the way, DB or HX, ...

    Good luck on your journey!

    Quote Originally Posted by benj2008 View Post
    Looks like I'll spring for the Vibiemme Domobar Jr or the Expobar Leva...

  12. #12
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    One difference worth considering is that warm up on a Lelit DB is 10 minutes (and most DBs are sub 20) versus 40+ on a HX. Also, if you get a DB with PID you also have display and a control of brew water temperature (not a "must have" for most people but usually in the "nice to have" category).

    Specifically with the PL60 (and on single boiler Lelits without PID) the brew path has some temperature "smoothing" built in to decrease the temperature swing associated with the use of bimetallic thermostats. (Basically the brew water comes out of the boiler and back through a little heat exchange pipe before going into the group head. This design results in less swing than a brew path which is directly from boiler to group head (as per Silvia).

    charlie

  13. #13
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    If you're now up in that $2500ish range you need to go into a supplier to check a few out. You're obviously in or near Sydney so you have Jetblack and Di Bartoli as walk in options as well as Coffee Parts in the Botany area (appointment only I think?). Jetblack have Lelit, including the Mara and Diana; Di Bartoli have Expobar and Bezzera I think. Your decision will be made easier by seeing this stuff in the flesh as from my experience most things look different (usually better) than on a computer.
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    Well, I am now the proud owner of a Domobar Junior HX, a nice Pullman tamper, and various accessories, cups, 15g VST basket, and some water hardness test strips.

    An OE Lido E grinder and a portable Aquapure water filter are on their way to my loving arms.

    My water is pretty soft - between 0 and 50ppm from the colour indicated on the strip...so my filter should last a bit longer than it would if my water was harder.

    I tried to make some microfoam to use with a hot chocolate as my first attempt at milk texturing...well, I have quite a bit of practising to do
    The steam this machine produces is nothing short of brutal. I'm not sure if a 500mL jug is large enough for the sheer power of the steam this machine puts out. I often wonder if there are 4-hole tips that can be ordered online, but I will seek the advice of anyone who knows the Domobar better than I do...I'm all ears!

    I owe a debt of gratitude to Brad at Jetblack, for showing me a few different machines, and for the espresso sample that I had the pleasure of tasting. Now that is how great coffee is supposed to taste. Finally I realised that these machines are well worth their asking price. I could have bought one of those cheaper department store machines that would never be able to produce good shots and end up needing replacement in a few short years, but I decided to go for gold and get something that will last at least 15 years, maybe more, and produce excellent shots. One of my friends has a coffee machine he bought in September 1990, and it still works very well over 25 years later, and the shots he pulls out of his are phenomenal. I think from memory his machine was worth $3000+, but he got it on special through an auction (from memory)...that was in 1990...not sure what the brand, but it started with F.

    Hopefully the Domobar will see me into my old age.

  15. #15
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benj2008 View Post
    Well, I am now the proud owner of a Domobar Junior HX, a nice Pullman tamper, and various accessories, cups, 15g VST basket, and some water hardness test strips.
    Well done. Vibiemme are very highly regarded by most. High quality components and good build quality.

  16. #16
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benj2008 View Post
    One of my friends has a coffee machine he bought in September 1990, and it still works very well over 25 years later, and the shots he pulls out of his are phenomenal. I think from memory his machine was worth $3000+, but he got it on special through an auction (from memory)...that was in 1990...not sure what the brand, but it started with F.

    e.
    Faema? Fiorenzato?

  17. #17
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    I'm pretty sure it was a Faema. It had the E-61 group head and I think he mentioned it had a 1.8litre boiler.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by benj2008 View Post
    Well, I am now the proud owner of a Domobar Junior HX, a nice Pullman tamper, and various accessories, cups, 15g VST basket, and some water hardness test strips.

    An OE Lido E grinder and a portable Aquapure water filter are on their way to my loving arms.

    My water is pretty soft - between 0 and 50ppm from the colour indicated on the strip...so my filter should last a bit longer than it would if my water was harder.

    I tried to make some microfoam to use with a hot chocolate as my first attempt at milk texturing...well, I have quite a bit of practising to do
    The steam this machine produces is nothing short of brutal. I'm not sure if a 500mL jug is large enough for the sheer power of the steam this machine puts out. I often wonder if there are 4-hole tips that can be ordered online, but I will seek the advice of anyone who knows the Domobar better than I do...I'm all ears!

    I owe a debt of gratitude to Brad at Jetblack, for showing me a few different machines, and for the espresso sample that I had the pleasure of tasting. Now that is how great coffee is supposed to taste. Finally I realised that these machines are well worth their asking price. I could have bought one of those cheaper department store machines that would never be able to produce good shots and end up needing replacement in a few short years, but I decided to go for gold and get something that will last at least 15 years, maybe more, and produce excellent shots. One of my friends has a coffee machine he bought in September 1990, and it still works very well over 25 years later, and the shots he pulls out of his are phenomenal. I think from memory his machine was worth $3000+, but he got it on special through an auction (from memory)...that was in 1990...not sure what the brand, but it started with F.

    Hopefully the Domobar will see me into my old age.
    Congrats on the new gear. Don't be afraid to use all the steam. Using less will usually lead to bubbles in the milk.

    charlie
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by benj2008 View Post
    I tried to make some microfoam to use with a hot chocolate as my first attempt at milk texturing...well, I have quite a bit of practising to do
    The steam this machine produces is nothing short of brutal. I'm not sure if a 500mL jug is large enough for the sheer power of the steam this machine puts out. I often wonder if there are 4-hole tips that can be ordered online, but I will seek the advice of anyone who knows the Domobar better than I do...I'm all ears!
    keep your steam tip vertical in the middle of the jug. As you turn the steam on, raise the wand to stretch the milk to the desired amount.

    Once you have the desired amount of stretch, lower the tip down into the milk and watch as the milk tumbles and the bubbles slowly dissipate.

    It can take a fair bit of practice with small amounts of milk as it heats up quickly, before all the bubbles dissipate.

    I have the VBM Super.



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