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Thread: Help! Breville*BES920 Dual Boiler*won't produce steam after descale

  1. #1
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    Exclamation Help! Breville*BES920 Dual Boiler*won't produce steam after descale

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi everyone! I'm new to coffee snobs and in dire need of help. Did my first descale last night and the everything seemed to go ok, but after switching the machine on this morning it doesn't want to produce steam.

    I've done another descale today hoping last night's process may have simply caused some build up to create a blockage but unfortunately I'm no closer to steam.

    Hoping there's something silly I've done and haven't caused too much damage. If anyone can provide any advice before I take it into the shop I'd very much appreciate it.

    Thanks everyone!

  2. #2
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Unfortunately there is a known issue with all 920s sold up until a certain point that the programming for the descale leaves the steam boiler element on without any water in the boiler. This kills the element. Call Breville tomorrow. It will need to go in for repairs, or they will tell you how to fix it.
    Last edited by level3ninja; 5th June 2017 at 07:14 PM.
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Bad luck, is it still under warranty?

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    Help! Breville*BES920 Dual Boiler*won't produce steam after descale

    If its a known issue probably no wiggle room for breville not to fix regardless of product warranty status

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    Hopefully it's tripped the thermal fuse before the element has blown. That's what the fuse was designed to do.

    The 920's that I have repaired for this problem have only ever needed a new fuse. Unfortunately it's still a complete disassembly, boiler out job which is a massive pain.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Mine had bits of the element (I assume, something that looked and smelled metallic) come out into the drip tray.

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    Did I read somewhere there's a new procedure for the descaling? Sure I saw mention in a long thread of failed steam heaters.

  8. #8
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    Consumer affairs says your contract is with the shop or dealer from whom you purchased it. Not Breville. Return it to the shop it's their responsibility.
    When I went to a Breville authorised repairer it took ten weeks to tell me the part was out of stock.
    The shop where I bought it got me a new machine.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Did I read somewhere there's a new procedure for the descaling? Sure I saw mention in a long thread of failed steam heaters.
    Yes go to the Breville web site and look for the first software version.

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    Hi Guys, new to this forum...

    Saw this and seems we have to go quite a long way for someone to hit the nail on the head. noidle22 is correct with the diagnosis, I have the same machine, the Thermal Fuse is conveniently placed in the most inaccessible place, obviously attached to the main steam boiler, which involves a complete strip down! I have had this issue twice now, despite following the "older model" instructions on how to descale, and yes, just 3 months out of the warranty!!

    Whats confusing me is that the Thermal fuse was replaced before under warranty and again has gone, the TF is the correct one 167 degrees, 10 amp. The element is giving near 50 ohms, so thats OK. what really confusing me is that the boiler is fitted with a thermal cut-off sensor, which should also stop the current when the boiler reaches temperature, or am I missing something?
    the boiler operates at around 130 degrees Celsius apparently, therefore how does the thermal fuse blow? is it likely to be a faulty Thermal Cut-off sensor which is strapped to the cylinder? If this was defective the boiler would continue to call for heat wouldn't it?

    I thought of fitting a 150 degree resettable thermal switch instead of the thermal fuse such as this:
    eBay link removed as per Site Posting Policy

    This way if the boiler ever got above the 150 degrees, it would reset automatically once the temperature had been below that for 1 minute, enabling me to diagnose other possible issues without having to strip the entire machine down again just to replace the damn fuse.

    Any comments appreciated.


    Thanks
    Last edited by Javaphile; 18th December 2017 at 01:47 PM. Reason: Removed eBay link

  11. #11
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    If the boiler is dry (or low on water). The thermal cutout will not read the temperature correctly, the element will continue to cook itself.

    Think of a kettle, it won't know when to turn off, if there is no water on the temp sensor

  12. #12
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    I haven't had one apart, so not really sure of how the thermal fuse works.
    It maybe that it melts after a time with the element on (over current), or it melts as its closer to the element and gets its temperature.

  13. #13
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    I had the exact issue yesterday but have had it before where I got no steam and th dreaded 3 beeps. The first time it was like the boiler was dry but after a short time it started working again. Yesterday it was nothing...luck I drink espressos so I went about my business this morning making a coffee and checking the steam. After a while I started hearing the boiler start drinking more water. I thought that maybe my other boiler was shot too. I checked the steam again and what do you know, it is alive!! Good luck with your machine JimfromIreland.

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    Hi all Google led me to this wonderful forum.

    As all the above, never had a single issue with the machine until said to descale. Bought correct stuff to do descale, followed the instructions from Breville step by step. These were original instructions which were with machine when purchased in 2015. Switched all back on in the morning and the steamer wont work and the 3 beeps. Googled it read all of this, called Breville who played dumb that they know nothing about this being an issue and just said not much can do other than telling me there are new descale instructions which she sent me by email. Which may I add are COMPLETELY different to the first ones. Why change them if no issue? Can you all let me know how you went in regards to repairs and being compensated (if you were at all) and proving this as I cannot locate a Breville statement of course admitting there is an issue, only all the posts I have read on numerous forums of the exact same issue that the process cooks the elements and fuse when descaling. I have emailed place purchased from who doesnt want to know me so after some advise how you guys proceeded, if repaired the machine and any help is appreciated. Please note 4 hours later last night after running the new descale process that they advise takes 1 hour (crap) the steam still does not work.when i hit the wand it let out the smallest spurt steam for half a second then nothing but beeps. The water coming out of draining the boilers also is hot which hope is a good sign. I live in regional area so for me to fix this its going to financially be a nightmare.

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    was this under warranty? when they replaced or out of?

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    Red face Found a trick to get the boiler working but you need to open the machine.

    Why this happens:
    What happens is the descaler makes the machine think the boilers are full (different resistance than water). Once the descaler coats the sensors, the machine will continue to think water has hit them even when it hasnt. We esentially need to trick the machine to fill with clean water in order to rinse the descaler off the sensor.


    How to "trick" it and fix it:
    1) With machine OFF and unplugged; Open Machine. (two screws left and right of group head. Two more on back of machine. Be careful there are wires going to top lid. Just prop the top UP.)

    2) Locate sensor wires of boiler. (Red and blue, on right hand-side steam boiler)

    3) Disconnect one of the sensor wires (red or blue does matter, they should should be unplug-able. SEE PICTURES here: https://imgur.com/a/QZkqDWU).

    4) Put steam lever into ON position (important not to put pressure on the steam boiler pump).

    5) Plug machine back in; Turn ON and you should hear the steam boiler filling. Let it go until you see water going through the steam wand (takes pretty long, make sure to start with plenty of water).

    6) Turn off the machine and then drain the steam boiler.

    7) Reconnect the sensor, power ON the machine.

    8) At this point it should fill the steam boiler again, if it does, reassemble the machine. If not you can try repeating the process (steps 1 through 5).


    Keep in mind, this will likely happen next time. I think one possible way to avoid it would be to dilute your descaler more, but it won't be as effective. I just got to the point that taking apart the machine has just become part of the process of descaling.

    Really hope this helps someone, I RMAed my machine and even the new one had this issue. It's pretty disappointing for a $1000+ machine but still great outside of this big flaw.
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  17. #17
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    Is there a re-set or some way to get the machine to NOT bug you to descale? I do what the commercial shops and owners of high end machines do... I use scale-free water. I never descale because I never need to. So it would be best for me with my -920, if when it starts bugging me to descale, if I could just reset something and make it stop bugging me, since I already know I don't need to descale.

    -Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcrussell50 View Post
    Is there a re-set or some way to get the machine to NOT bug you to descale? I do what the commercial shops and owners of high end machines do... I use scale-free water. I never descale because I never need to. So it would be best for me with my -920, if when it starts bugging me to descale, if I could just reset something and make it stop bugging me, since I already know I don't need to descale.

    -Peter
    You can reset the entire machine machine but you lose all your settings. I beleive you do it by starting with the machine off, then hold the one-cup button while power on. at this point you should see rset on the screen and you just hit menu to reset it all.

    In all honesty it's probably better to either ignore it, or just run through the descale process without descaler. This should not give you the issue and it does not hurt to flush your boilers anyways.

  19. #19
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    The quicker way to do it I believe is to run the devalue function 3x but cut it short each time. It looks for multiples of 3 for some reason so if you do 4 or 5 it will keep bugging you.

  20. #20
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    Norbs, thanks for that. I do drain the boilers monthly or so, especially the steam boiler, to try to reduce mineral buildup (not scale but other minerals).

    Say, what is the "devalue" function? If it is an auto correct error, it's still escaping me. Good observation on the "rule of threes though". Love it.

    -Peter

  21. #21
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Yes autocorrect, "devalue" was meant to be "descale"

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Yes autocorrect, "devalue" was meant to be "descale"
    It isn't called "Autocucumber" for nothing - that autocorrect thing.
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  23. #23
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    Thanks @norbs12

    you said
    5) Plug machine back in; Turn ON and you should hear the steam boiler filling. Let it go until you see water going through the steam wand (takes pretty long, make sure to start with plenty of water).
    How long on average do you wait? Itís been 30mins so far and no water has come out of the steam wand.

  24. #24
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    I called up the UK service company Sage/Breville recommends (they fixed my solenoid valve last year!).
    they have said the 3 beeps for the steam wand is due to the steam boiler not heating up. It could either be:
    1) Probes have lost continuity or have corroded - (Norbs12 possible solution I guess would fix the continuity issue)
    2) Thermal link may be broken
    Have said either are easily fixable- will be two weeks before then can come out though.

  25. #25
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    A friend of mine just had this happen on his machine. Did the boiler fill/flush a few times by disconnecting one of the level probe wires as above. The boiler now fills correctly but stays cold.

    Are there any tricks to pulling out the boiler to get to the thermal fuse?

    Hopefully it is just the thermal fuse and not the element.

    Cheers

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by noidle22 View Post
    Hopefully it's tripped the thermal fuse before the element has blown. That's what the fuse was designed to do.

    The 920's that I have repaired for this problem have only ever needed a new fuse. Unfortunately it's still a complete disassembly, boiler out job which is a massive pain.
    On a scale of 1 to Ďpay a professional to do ití how hard is it to get to and replace the thermal fuse? I think I blew mine

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimfromIreland View Post

    I thought of fitting a 150 degree resettable thermal switch instead of the thermal fuse such as this:
    eBay link removed as per Site Posting Policy

    This way if the boiler ever got above the 150 degrees, it would reset automatically once the temperature had been below that for 1 minute, enabling me to diagnose other possible issues without having to strip the entire machine down again just to replace the damn fuse.
    Did you ever end up installing the resettable thermal switch?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by yojabbajabba View Post
    On a scale of 1 to ‘pay a professional to do it’ how hard is it to get to and replace the thermal fuse? I think I blew mine
    Pay a professional to it, it's a hateful job. I have a steam boiler swap coming up on an Oracle, boy am I not looking forward to that.
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