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Thread: Sunbeam EM7000/7100 single/double dosing issue

  1. #1
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    Angry Sunbeam EM7000/7100 single/double dosing issue

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all, I recently bought my first coffee maker, a Sunbeam EM7100 and just wanted to confirm the trick to pulling good shots in this thing. It seems the standard single wall single basket (8g) needs to take about 16 to 17g and the single wall double basket (16g) needs to take about 23 to 24g of coffee to get the pressure gauge in the optimal zone otherwise it gushes out and under extracted. ie once tamped it seems to need the coffee to be about 2mm from the top. Does this sound right?

    I'm using freshly roasted coffee beans (medium dark roast) from a local roaster on a cheapish Delonghi KG 521.1M grinder appliance on it's finest setting! Or do I need to buy a more expensive stepless grinder to be able to grind the coffee much finer and dial it in better?

    I have looked in other threads here and it seems a lot of people have similar issues on the EM7000 but I'm still trying to determine the root cause or do I just need to accept the baskets need to take heaps more ground coffee? I've tried tamping just once to 3 or 4 times, coarser settings in the grinder but it seems the main key is to just get the higher coffee dose weight correct?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    I would ignore the single basket when starting out (and forever?....)

    Use the double, far more forgiving and easier to get repeatability.

    Do the 5 cent test to get your tamped dose level as the maximum. Keep this constant and adjust grind to get the flow you want. Generally 60ml from a double in 30 seconds is considered "standard". Adjust to your tastes.

    Not familiar with your grinder but it's a small conical. Should be fine for the task as long as it can grind fine enough. It may need to be shimmed if you are still getting gushers at finest setting?

    The grind should feel like coarse flour between your fingers, not too gritty. Ie quite fine.

    Cheers
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  3. #3
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    Forgot to add, 2mm tamped level from the top seems too high, you are probably hitting the shower screen and disturbing your puck and getting channelling. The 5 cent test with confirm the required tamped level.

    Cheers
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Cups View Post
    Hi all, I recently bought my first coffee maker, a Sunbeam EM7100 and just wanted to confirm the trick to pulling good shots in this thing. It seems the standard single wall single basket (8g) needs to take about 16 to 17g and the single wall double basket (16g) needs to take about 23 to 24g of coffee to get the pressure gauge in the optimal zone otherwise it gushes out and under extracted. ie once tamped it seems to need the coffee to be about 2mm from the top. Does this sound right?

    I'm using freshly roasted coffee beans (medium dark roast) from a local roaster on a cheapish Delonghi KG 521.1M grinder appliance on it's finest setting! Or do I need to buy a more expensive stepless grinder to be able to grind the coffee much finer and dial it in better?

    I have looked in other threads here and it seems a lot of people have similar issues on the EM7000 but I'm still trying to determine the root cause or do I just need to accept the baskets need to take heaps more ground coffee? I've tried tamping just once to 3 or 4 times, coarser settings in the grinder but it seems the main key is to just get the higher coffee dose weight correct?

    Thanks
    G'day 2Cups

    Firstly, I have never used that particular "small conical" DeLonghi, however I used a similar looking "non electronic panel" one a while back (probably its father / grandfather model). It worked well enough to generate good espresso. That one could have done with more / finer adjustments in the espresso range. I have used quite a few 6910 / 7000 / 7100 SBs, and still routinely use them at home. They work well enough, although the "auto milk frothing" of the 7000 / 7100 really, really annoys me personally.

    Single basket - the SB one is almost untampable (if that is a word) as the sides are too sloped for any tamper to fit correctly (as are so many single baskets). Not recommended unless you are a masochist. I use 7g VSTs which have "almost vertical" sides and a custom made tamper - mind you, I used a "Smartwater bottle & lid" for a year or so first, and that fitted well enough. I dose the VST to 7.2g and adjust the grinder to give about 25 second (NOT counting preinfusion) shots. That is my standard daily shot - it amuses me that on CS most people worship everything Italian and ignore the fact that a single shot is actually around 7g of coffee. Properly optimise your shots and any larger basket rapidly becomes too strong. Even my "chain smoking friend" finds my 22g shots too strong, let alone my 28g ones (yep - I also have a couple of 28g quad baskets - mainly for Russian Black Rye bread making these days).

    Double basket - the SB one has steeper sides so it is possible to tamp it properly. It is a nominal 16g capacity. If you are overdosing the double the 7000/7100 is moderately capable (try a La Pavoni 2 group, a LM Linea or an "older style" SB 6910 which handle massive overdosing with a lot more aplomb if you doubt that statement). However, you will almost always get a better balanced cuppa by grinding a lot finer and dosing it closer to spec. If you prefer ristrettos, grind it finer again, run the shot for less time and it will usually still be a better shot than the overdosing you described.

    Just my 2 cents worth whilst enjoying a 7.2g single shot of Ethiopian Siddamo from my Vario into my SB 7000.

    TampIt
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  5. #5
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    Hi TampIt,
    I don't overdose the baskets by choice and would love to get away with using 7g and 16g but find I need to otherwise just water comes out. I even bought an Espresso Parts HQ 14g ridgeless basket which I am needing to overdoes to about 24g as well. The ground coffee appears ok to my novice eyes, it is not super fine like flour, but I would say reasonably gritty sand like as what the professionals seem to recommend, but even if I do need to try grinding finer I can't with this new DeLonghi grinder, and it doesn't use shims, hence was wondering if a different grinder is needed. Would love to get the Sette270 so may look into that.
    I will try the 5 cent test but suspect it will give me the same dose settings I am currently using to get decent shots.
    I did read that the EM7000/7100 shower head is not at the typical height hence why people seem to need to overdose their baskets.
    If it definitely just needs over dosing then I will accept that and just try to tweak what I have to optimize my shots.
    Cheers

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Cups View Post
    Hi TampIt,
    I don't overdose the baskets by choice and would love to get away with using 7g and 16g but find I need to otherwise just water comes out. I even bought an Espresso Parts HQ 14g ridgeless basket which I am needing to overdoes to about 24g as well. The ground coffee appears ok to my novice eyes, it is not super fine like flour, but I would say reasonably gritty sand like as what the professionals seem to recommend, but even if I do need to try grinding finer I can't with this new DeLonghi grinder, and it doesn't use shims, hence was wondering if a different grinder is needed. Would love to get the Sette270 so may look into that.
    I will try the 5 cent test but suspect it will give me the same dose settings I am currently using to get decent shots.
    I did read that the EM7000/7100 shower head is not at the typical height hence why people seem to need to overdose their baskets.
    If it definitely just needs over dosing then I will accept that and just try to tweak what I have to optimize my shots.
    Cheers
    G'day 2Cups

    My crystal ball foresees a new grinder in your future... BTW the 6910 / 7000 / 7100 does not NEED to be overdosed, they just handle it well compared to a lot of similarly priced "small single boiler" machines. Basket / group height has nil to do with it IMO - it is a grinder limitation. Clearly your Delonghi cannot grind anywhere near fine enough for real espresso use without adjustment / major service / whatever.

    I recently posted on the Sette thread in CS about Sette and Vario after living with them both for a while.

    Summary: For Turkish to espresso, Vario wins hands down. Anything coarser and it is the Sette all the way - to the point that I am probably going to buy one at the start of summer so I can do cold steep / drip / modified plunger etc without having an RR45 domestic (size and noise - it is totally banned from the house).

    I would suggest that if you do a variety of coffee prep methods and only want one grinder then the Sette is probably a better option. Up the cost chain - grab a Vario and add a $30ish set of optional steel burrs for coarser grinds. Although I haven't had a chance to compare them directly, the steel burrs on the Vario are pretty impressive around the "finer plunger grinds" so they would also suit an aeropress well. Whether the pain of changing burrs every time you switch coffee ranges (i.e. Turkish / espresso to plunger / drip) is a PITA would depend upon how often you switch. The next option (my preferred) is to have a Vario for fine stuff and a Sette for coarser grinds. After that, the sky is the limit on cost.

    Hope this helps


    TampIt

  7. #7
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    With the new EM7100 I think I will just be sticking to Espresso forever.

    Over here in NZ the Vario costs over $300 more than the Sette 270, and also at the moment the supplier has an included special of a free 6 month supply of roasted beans valued at almost $200 when buying the Sette. My budget is pretty limited sadly, does this sound like the better deal/option overall?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Cups View Post
    With the new EM7100 I think I will just be sticking to Espresso forever.

    Over here in NZ the Vario costs over $300 more than the Sette 270, and also at the moment the supplier has an included special of a free 6 month supply of roasted beans valued at almost $200 when buying the Sette. My budget is pretty limited sadly, does this sound like the better deal/option overall?
    Bloody good question!

    I guess I would go for the Vario if you are one of those OCD people who will keep tinkering to get every shot as close to perfect as you can. All things being equal, the Vario burrs will also last a lot longer. My older one has done well over 200Kg's* and those burrs are still identical to my newer one which has done about 10Kg's - I suspect the burrs are unlikely to ever need replacement in any domestic setting (short of dropping some hard stone or metal into them - and even then the $5 gear wheel is designed to break first).

    If you are a "near enough - it is great coffee" then go for the Sette (and it should be great coffee given a decent roast). The extra beans makes it really tempting...

    I guess I would also add the comment that it is always a lot harder to go down in quality. I reckon if I hadn't lived with my Varios for so long I would have been perfectly happy with the Sette at home for espresso - it holds it own to most domestic / semi commercial grinders (and trounces a few of them). Anyway, if the upgrade bug bites I reckon you could buy a Vario later. Ditto if you want to experiment with alternative coffee methods.



    TampIt
    * My older Vario has done few stints at a cafe whilst their traditional commercial Italian grinder needed parts. It did just over 40kg's a week of decaf there on a few occasions. It surprised me that the Vario handled that gracefully, although I wouldn't want to try their "production grinder's" circa 200Kg's a week. Anyway, I ended up colour coding the burrs as I cannot tell the older and newer Varios apart and I am a fundamentalist Murphy's Law believer: "Interchangeable parts won't".



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