Post By TampIt
Silvia Double basket
Hi everyone. This is my first post.
I own a silvia with a naked portafilter. I still run the original rancilio basket (14g) and own a triple which is massive.
On coffeeparts.com there are a couple of unbranded double 18g baskets which have been mentioned on here as suitable.
Specifically for my naked portafilter could someone advise which may be the suitable model.
Precision and VST(more expensive) basket usually are recommended, ridgeless maybe better but it's personal preference, fit won't be a problem for your naked PF as the basket won't bottom out.
I don't believe this thread falls under "Point End" though :P
EP HQ (espresso parts high quality), psudeo (made by IMS), Pullman and VST all make good baskets. Some say VST can finicky but found the other three use to use (haven’t use VST). Think I listed them in price. Pullman and VST state a size tolerance so you know the size variance in case matters to you.
coffee parts stock them all and if local they will show you them all. Take your tamper so you can see how it fits the new baskets or just buy a new tamper, they have plenty to choose from!
I went to a Pullman 18g basket and find it the best for me to use. Others may have different opinions but to me it is more forgiving and more consistent than the VST. Again, could be my technique, but the Pullman suits me.
I also have all of thr Pesado baskets. 24, 26 and 28g. They are huge. I doubt I will ever use them and think it was a waste of money as they are so big. Not sure what. I was thinking when I got them. Others may have a use for them, but I don’t how I making my one long black a day.
I dose 16g in my Pullman basket btw.
I’d say it depends on the flavour you like in your coffee.
Vst type baskets will give more fruit floral type flavours that are arguably truer to the beans.
A synesso type basket will give more choc, caramel type flavour
Ronin, I'd be interested to know the science behind different baskets bringing out different notes in the coffee..
I use Decent Espresso and VST. Find them great.
Not got good enough taste buds to make comments as others have though.
But certainly better than stock sunbeam baskets.
I use mostly 7gm and 15gm, also have a 20, and 20/22, (different brand) but seldom use it.
Also now weigh my dose, and use a spring tamper from Decent Espresso.
I think this has made my shots more consistent.
TBH I can’t give you the exact scientific answer. I’m not really into refractometers tds etc because if you are if you are desolving the most amount of crap flavours it’ll still be crap.
Originally Posted by Esky
From an engineering point of view, the high end baskets are more of a square type shape. Thus water flows more evenly over all of the grounds, with good distribution and even tamping this should extract the most out of all of the coffee which will highlight top end flavours.
Synesso style baskets, or at least the older ones (can’t speak for the newer ones as I’ve not seen them) are more of a tapered basket, bit like a single. Water gets funneled into a smaller surface area of coffee. The theory is that the bottom of the basket will be more over extracted as the same amount of water flows over a smaller surface area of coffee causing it to run across those grounds faster.
Neither is bad if dialed in correctly, but they are different.
Hope it makes sense.
I find this a bit of a stretch.
Originally Posted by Ronin
I have both VST and EP baskets, different flavours? certainly not for me.
Probably because the VST and EP baskets are the same ‘style’ of basket
Originally Posted by Yelta
I use an LM double on my Silvia (inc. bottomless portafilter) and am getting good results with it - certainly better than the stock Rancilio double but that's probably due somewhat to technique and the strength I like my coffee.
Originally Posted by Esky
The science behind the VST is widely available if you look for it (below is the main two links I kept). How that affects taste is anyones guess. Subjective tasting is (IMO) pretty inconsistent and easily skewed (that is why proper chefs "cleanse their palate" between tastings) - one man's chocolate is another's incinerator...
The two areas where a VST rules objectively are pretty straightforward:-
a) much higher extraction rate (i.e. flavour quantity, close to 50% more - from circa 15% to 23%) out of the same bean dosage before bitterness strikes. Easily measurable with a refractometer.
b) Much higher flow rate (also about 50% more than most of the baskets I tested a while back). Easily measurable via dosage, volume and shot timing.
Then it becomes subjective again: to balance / optimise the shot flavour of a VST you need have a much finer grind together with a more even particle spread. Too many grinders (including a number of upmarket ones) remain incapable of that - hence the use of sieves as an particle spread / flavour equaliser. Then the time sieving takes means that oxidation may start to impact upon the flavour (sigh). The only other option is to use a more standard espresso grind and overdose way outside the VST recommended range (and personally I find those shots tastes pretty poor, and the extraction rate drops substantially as well).
Anyway, after adjusting for those factors a fairer comparison may be made. General consensus of top baristas - who use the VST for almost all competitions including the world barista championships - is that the flavour of a VST is cleaner and clearer. I also find the VST is easily the most consistent basket I have used (probably why the barista championships use them).
In WA, some of the cafes I know have accountants who love the VST - more coffee flavour for the same quantity of beans. The annual cost saving can be significant.
I first heard about VSTs via the coffee grapevine in the US. This is the oldest article I have stored reviewing the VSTs.
CoffeeGeek - Can These Filters Change the World of Espresso?
This is Vince Fedele's pdf about the VSTs - mostly before they worked out how to produce them if I recall correctly, I haven't looked at it for quite a while.
Given the trick engineering behind the VST I really doubt that the level of precision is duplicated in any of the competitors - perhaps they are subcontracting the factory output to other vendors? I cannot comment on Decent or Pullman baskets, however using a magnifying glass (or microscope) the 2013 EQ / HQ precision ones are not in the same state, let alone ballpark.
Hope this helps
Last edited by TampIt; 25th April 2018 at 12:47 AM.
Had the LM double basket too back when I had my Silvia.
Originally Posted by Rate
I’ve been using the Synesso 14g double basket on my Silvia for the past 12 months. I can’t really say why it works for me, but for $25-30 (I think...), it’s worth trying and seeing if you like it.
I used to use the LM double on my Silvia too and it was a great setup.
Originally Posted by Rate