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Thread: La Pavoni Europiccola bottomless portafilter dribbling

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    La Pavoni Europiccola bottomless portafilter dribbling

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all,

    Seeking a bit of advice on my la pavoni europiccola;

    I have a bottomless portafilter (from Jetblack Espresso) which most of the time seems to dribble coffee along the handle when I pull a shot. I've tried adjusting the amount of coffee I use and how hard I tamp but to not much success. Has anyone experienced this too and can anyone offer any advice to avoid this from happening?

    I should also note that I'm struggling to get it the pour to nicely converge in the centre too.

    Thanks in advance.
    A

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnishC View Post
    Hi all,

    Seeking a bit of advice on my la pavoni europiccola;

    I have a bottomless portafilter (from Jetblack Espresso) which most of the time seems to dribble coffee along the handle when I pull a shot. I've tried adjusting the amount of coffee I use and how hard I tamp but to not much success. Has anyone experienced this too and can anyone offer any advice to avoid this from happening?

    I should also note that I'm struggling to get it the pour to nicely converge in the centre too.

    Thanks in advance.
    A
    My first thought would be to replace the seal, available from https://www.coffeeparts.com.au/parts...nd-sight-glass
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    Thanks Yelta. Sorry I should've been more specific - the dribble is along the portafilter handle, from the underside of the basket.

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    Senior Member WhatEverBeansNecessary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnishC View Post
    Thanks Yelta. Sorry I should've been more specific - the dribble is along the portafilter handle, from the underside of the basket.
    So just so I am reading this correct, the dribble is coming from the holes in the bottom of the basket and then along the portafilter wall and down the handle? That seems a little impossible. I think it would have to be the seal between the portafilter/basket and the grouphead.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Hmmmmm, think I know what you mean, could well be a dosing/tamping problem.

    I'm not a big fan of bottomless portafilters, seems to me they create more problems than they solve, others will certainly disagree, why not go back to the original PF for a while?

    Give the people at Jetblack a call and discuss the problem with them?

    How long have you owned the machine? they can be a little tricky to master, its very much a balancing act between Grind, dose and tamp, along with extraction pressure on the lever, yes I owned one for about 12 months.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhatEverBeansNecessary View Post
    So just so I am reading this correct, the dribble is coming from the holes in the bottom of the basket and then along the portafilter wall and down the handle? That seems a little impossible. I think it would have to be the seal between the portafilter/basket and the grouphead.
    I can see how it could happen if the bottomless PF is spritzing/spraying toward the handle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Hmmmmm, think I know what you mean, could well be a dosing/tamping problem.

    I'm not a big fan of bottomless portafilters, seems to me they create more problems than they solve, others will certainly disagree, why not go back to the original PF for a while?

    Give the people at Jetblack a call and discuss the problem with them?

    How long have you owned the machine? they can be a little tricky to master, its very much a balancing act between Grind, dose and tamp, along with extraction pressure on the lever, yes I owned one for about 12 months.

    Sounds like you're all over it Yelta - I bought the machine used and without the original portafilter. Thought I'd be and get a bottomless (the vids ive seen online make it look so easy to get a good shot) but rather it's proven to be more difficult. They're great fun to use but like you said, tricky to master. Guess i could give JBE a call or take the machine to someone who knows what they're doing with it

    Why did you get rid of it and what did you go to?

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnishC View Post
    Sounds like you're all over it Yelta - I bought the machine used and without the original portafilter. Thought I'd be and get a bottomless (the vids ive seen online make it look so easy to get a good shot) but rather it's proven to be more difficult. They're great fun to use but like you said, tricky to master. Guess i could give JBE a call or take the machine to someone who knows what they're doing with it

    Why did you get rid of it and what did you go to?
    Evening AnishC, I bought the Pav to use while having some work done on my Bezzera, then continued to use it when traveling, problem was we free camp a lot (no 240 volt power) it was just not getting enough use.

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    Senior Member JMcCee's Avatar
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    I've owned and used a few Pavs but none using a bottomless p/f as I never really cared what the stuff looked like coming out, but how it tasted. I assume you are using a mirror as the contortions involved in managing lever pressure and keeping the thing stable all at the same time as peering underneath makes it a risky business to say the least.

    You haven't said what it tastes like. I suggest getting a normal portafilter and work on getting a typical lovely Pavoni shot and then have a squiz with the bottomless out of curiosity. Don't be surprised if you see multiple cones and a spritzer .

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    Senior Member gonzob's Avatar
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    I had the OP's problem too when I converted my La Pav pf into a bottomless one. The coffee would regularly run down the handle. What was happening was that the coffee was getting onto the outside rim when the coffee was foamy and it was then running around to where the handle was and then running down the handle (because the handle boss slopes down)

    I did the following:



    I cut out the opening on the pf so that the clearance between the opening and the basket holes was large (about 5mm)
    I orient the closest line of holes so that they are perpendicular to the handle
    I cut a groove in the handle so that a ridge was formed on the rim, making it difficult for the coffee to go up into the groove and then down the handle.

    This all makes sense from an engineering perspective, but every now and then I still get dribbles down the handle.

    The reason I like a naked pf is that I want the shot to be as hot as I can get it, and the standard pf is a lot of metal to suck heat out of the coffee.

    Gonzo
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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonzob View Post

    The reason I like a naked pf is that I want the shot to be as hot as I can get it, and the standard pf is a lot of metal to suck heat out of the coffee.

    Gonzo
    If the machine is allowed to preheat the standard PF will be close to the temperature of the machine, very little cooling of the shot will occur.

    On the other hand I'm of the opinion that a bottomless will allow a greater cooling affect as the coffee has further to fall and has greater exposure to air.
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    Thanks Gonzo - what you've described is exactly the problem I'm having and thank you for the fix!

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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Can you pay a picture of the portafilter without the basket in it, specifically to show if there is a lip at the bottom or only the vertical sides of the PF left?

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    Senior Member gonzob's Avatar
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    Not sure if that request was for me or the OP, but mine has a lip, about 2mm.

    Gonzo

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    If it were me I'd open the hole up more to remove the lip. That should help the dribbling considerably if not entirely.

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    Senior Member gonzob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    If it were me I'd open the hole up more to remove the lip. That should help the dribbling considerably if not entirely.
    Yes, I agree, but removing the lip at the handle would remove quite a bit of the handle mounting too, and I'm not keen on that.

    Gonzo

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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Based on the picture above it'd be fine

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    IMG_20180726_183131544.jpgIMG_20180726_183222125.jpgIMG_20180726_183148175.jpg

    (Sorry for the late reply) - Yup, mine has a lip - annoying that JB doesnt fix this if they're supporting LaPav's.
    Its difficult to find someone who can bore the opening wider in Melbourne. Has anyone had any luck and for those that have, how has it fared against rusting over time?

  19. #19
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnishC View Post
    IMG_20180726_183131544.jpgIMG_20180726_183222125.jpgIMG_20180726_183148175.jpg

    (Sorry for the late reply) - Yup, mine has a lip - annoying that JB doesnt fix this if they're supporting LaPav's.
    Its difficult to find someone who can bore the opening wider in Melbourne. Has anyone had any luck and for those that have, how has it fared against rusting over time?
    I go to Perth for a month soon, once I'm back you're welcome to post it to me in Sydney. You pay postage both ways and the rest is on me. Because they're brass you won't get any rust, it will just lose its shine and will start to darken over time.

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    I suspect that the wider hole will solve your problem... Based on the fact that when I cut out my own back in 2012 or so, I cut it to the full diameter of the bottom. I haven't had a single case where it ran down the handle.

    Here is a pic of me holding mine:


    Nowhere near as slick as what Gonzo did. No ridges. Just a simple cut straight down with a grit-type hole saw. About two minutes work.

    I should add that this is a pre-millennium 49mm group, using the a basket from an Elektra Micorcasa lever machine. I use those baskets in this Pavoni because they seem to hold about 2g more than the stock 49mm Pavoni basket.

    I have a newer style Pavoni as as well with the fatter group bell and 51mm diameter. This one I bought with a pre made bottomless PF.

    Anyway, based on my anecdotal experience with a full diameter cut in mine, I bet (hope) it solves your problem.

    -Peter
    Last edited by pcrussell50; 16th August 2018 at 12:09 AM.

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    Thanks level3ninja - pm me once you're back and i'll send it over. Much appreciated.

    Thanks for the insight Peter; do you prefer pre/post? other than the larger group head, are there major upticks of one over the other?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnishC View Post
    Thanks for the insight Peter; do you prefer pre/post? other than the larger group head, are there major upticks of one over the other?
    Using a car analogy, they both "handle" very differently when it comes to temperature management. And when you're dealing with a Pavoni lever, you must manage your temperature. I prefer the pre-M probably for no other good reason than that I have my "system" down better for the pre-M because I've had it longer and use it more. I'm sure that once I put in the time to master the -M, it would be just as good.

    -Peter



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