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Thread: BES 900/920 FULL flow profiling mod (Slayer) easy and reversible

  1. #1
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    BES 900/920 FULL flow profiling mod (Slayer) easy and reversible

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I don't know how much buyers of $1000 espresso machines are interested in cutting edge extraction techniques, or keep up with machines like Slayer, but in case you are one who is:

    This is me in another forum: https://www.home-barista.com/espress...0.html#p619804

    And the post content:
    Unbelievably huge, unqualified success!

    We now have not just "Slayerlike" shots, but actual Slayer shots. And it's easy. And it's reversible (requires some modding... sort of... Actually just rerouting the existing plumbing, so no cutting. And for me, it was free, (because of some spare parts I have kept around over the years).

    In a nutshell, I routed the brew line through the hot water valve, which is a needle valve. This means ALL of your brew comes through the water valve. If it is closed, NO water gets to the puck/group, no matter how hard or long you run the pump. To do a Slayer shot, you just crack open the water valve, start the pump right at full pressure and keep it running. After it fills the lines and the headspace above the puck, pressure will start to build, only just as with Slayer, it will build all the way and not stop at one or two bar, even though the actual flow is still slow. You will see the thickest stickiest gloopy gloppy espresso start coming out and then you can increase the flow by opening the knob (at whatever rate feels good to you). As the shot progresses, you can slow the flow by progressively closing the knob as you wish (which you cannot do on Slayer), and end the shot by turning off the pump or closing the valve all the way and then turning off the pump. My very first shot, with no practice and experimentation, was a masterpiece. I just used the same grind setting that I had been using for the last few weeks doing Breville-"Slayerlike" shots using PP55. I wish I had four hands and an LED espresso light and a fancy mirror for video'ing. You guys would die.

    If you've got some dark beans and don't want to do a Slayer shot, just leave the water valve full open and it will work just like normal, with your pre infusion settings and all.

    You will of course, no longer have use of your hot water knob for tea. For that, I have a 1500watt glass kettle with temperature selection. Well worth it if you drink tea, Aeropress, or pour over. Coincidentally, it is also a Breville. But I am not a shill for Breville. I have that kettle because my wife actually wanted it and picked it out completely independently from me and my input.

    Full credit to Jake_G for this idea. It was not mine. Jake does not even have a BDB. But he has a big brain.

    Words cannot describe how elated I am over this.

    -Peter
    -Peter
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  2. #2
    Senior Member LeroyC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcrussell50 View Post
    I don't know how much buyers of $1000 espresso machines are interested in cutting edge extraction techniques, or keep up with machines like Slayer, but in case you are one who is:

    This is me in another forum: https://www.home-barista.com/espress...0.html#p619804

    And the post content:


    -Peter
    Ok, Iíve been thinking about moving to a BDB lately and you may have just convinced me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeroyC View Post
    Ok, I’ve been thinking about moving to a BDB lately and you may have just convinced me.
    Even without mods, you can use the programmable pre infusion as-is, to get as long and slow a pre infusion as you wish. It will be at a low flow and low pressure. Whereas Slayer pre brew (they call it pre brew) will be a low flow, but high pressure. In any event, even though the stock unmodded BDB pre infuses at low pressure, you can at least do it for as long as you wish, and you end up with a pull that still looks great and tastes great even with super light roasts. This is the shot I call "Slayerlike", in quotes. That alone might satisfy a lot of people. But the mod to low flow with high pressure, I refer to as Slayer shots, without quotes, because that is the exact Slayer methodology. To be honest, I'm not sure I can taste the difference in the cup between the "Slayerlike" shots of the unmodified BDB , and the Slayer shots of the modded one. If there is a difference in the cup, I'm not sensitive enough to tell. BUT I am of the mind that the long pre infusion runs at low power is hard on the pump, as I don't believe vibration pumps are designed to be run at low power. On the flip side, the pumps are cheap to buy and easy to replace, so one train of thought would say, "Go ahead and be hard on the pump, and change it out when it goes bad." As for the mod, it was so easy (and I'm not afraid modding), and reversible, that I couldn't bear not to give it a go. And I'm very happy with the result.

    I hope eventually a lot of people do this, especially the super sensitive tasters, and report back what they think.

    -Peter

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    I'm afraid my post above wasn't super clear. So I'll try to summarize in a more tabular way:

    pre infusion time:
    Stock Breville: 90s (you shouldn't need more than 30s)
    Mod Breville: long as you want
    Slayer: long as you want

    Pre infusion pressure:
    Stock Breville: slow ramp to at most ~1-2 bar
    Mod Breville: slow ramp to max brew pressure
    Slayer: slow ramp to max brew pressure

    Pre infusion flow rate:
    Stock Breville: ~90ml/30s @ min pre infusion pressure setting
    Mod Breville: low as you like, but Slayer folks like 50-60 ml/30s
    Slayer: same as Mod Breville

    Brew pressure:
    Stock Breville: whatever the puck will allow, can profile it down with the water knob
    Mod Breville: -same-
    Slayer: Actually has disadvantage here. You cannot profile it down. You can only switch discretely back to pre brew

    HTH

    -Peter
    Last edited by pcrussell50; 22nd November 2018 at 02:28 AM.

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    I love it!
    I donít know that I would do the mod because I really wouldnít be able to taste the difference. But I LOVE to read about my BDB being such a cool machine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmeddy View Post
    I love it!
    I don’t know that I would do the mod because I really wouldn’t be able to taste the difference. But I LOVE to read about my BDB being such a cool machine.
    It's a mod to make the BDB into a flow profiler. Some GS/3 folks are doing it, too. But flow profiling is pretty cutting edge. It's not for everybody, and unless you are into it, or use super light roasted beans, there is no need. I just put it out there since Slayer is essentially on the map because of it's rudimentary flow profiling capability, and I just wanted it to be known that we can do the same thing here... Maybe even a wee bit better if you can believe it.

    -Peter
    Dimal and gmeddy like this.

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    Iím wondering if the paddle from the steam wand could be moved to the other side to make it easier

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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    I'm wondering if an extra solenoid could be added with a hidden switch so the hot water spout still works

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    I'm wondering if an extra solenoid could be added with a hidden switch so the hot water spout still works
    Wire it so you can use the single cup button. Who even ever makes a single??
    inorog and thedriver like this.

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    Gran'pa... not enough to wake him up completely, but enough to not p*ss in his slippers
    BOR15 likes this.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inorog View Post
    Gran'pa... not enough to wake him up completely, but enough to not p*ss in his slippers
    Being a person of mature years (yep, a Grandpa) I find this comment offensive.

    Far from pissing in our slippers, we Grandpa's are the very people who are constantly doling out never ending streams of advice on how to sort out basic extraction problems with your new whiz bang espresso machines.
    greenman, topshot and doobs like this.

  12. #12
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOR15 View Post
    Wire it so you can use the single cup button. Who even ever makes a single??
    I have the single button programmed for a double shot of a second bean in a second grinder
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  13. #13
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    Slayer shot on a Slayer. Slow build of pressure to first drops in 30s or so, then switch to full flow, then switch back to pre brew to finish:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYAsvvyCrzQ

    Slayer shot on BDB. Slow build of pressure to first drops in 30s or so, then on the fly needle valve modulation, raising the pressure to demonstrate control. Normally you would would gently close the needle to keep the flow from increasing as the puck erodes.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEKdxU_BQ2E
    Note that you can NOT do this on an un modded BDB. You must plug and play the PTFE tubes in the machine, to extract through the needle valve that comes with it. Note the pump is run at full power the whole time. Pre infusion time is set to zero. All pre infusion is done through the needle valve, just like Slayer.
    (Apologies, my five year old little girl decided that that was the moment she must insist on asking for a lollie).

    -Peter
    Last edited by pcrussell50; 11th March 2019 at 08:36 PM.
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