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Thread: EM6910 - can't remove screen from shower screen to replace seal

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    EM6910 - can't remove shower screen to replace seal

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Am trying to replace seal on EM6910. With similar machines the shower screen screw removes easily, but this one seems completely stuck.

    Two months ago I gave it my best shot, including putting in heaps of Penetrene and similar, but managed only to strip the screw somewhat. The Penetrene has been soaking inside ever since, but the screw still won't budge.

    I hoped I could just wedge the seal in, but that doesn't seem possible.

    If anyone has any tips about either extracting the screw or putting in the seal with the shower screen still in - please let me know!
    Last edited by Billy-o; 11th January 2019 at 01:04 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Have you been applying an extra drop off Penetrene every day?

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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    Have you been applying an extra drop off Penetrene every day?
    No, I've been away on holidays, but it did get penetrene, and lots of it, for a week or so. It was tipped upside down for much of that week, so should have had ample time to soak in.

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    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    One drop lots of times is far more effective than lots of drops one time. Might be worth a go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy-o View Post
    Am trying to replace seal on EM6910. With similar machines the shower screen screw removes easily, but this one seems completely stuck.

    Two months ago I gave it my best shot, including putting in heaps of Penetrene and similar, but managed only to strip the screw somewhat. The Penetrene has been soaking inside ever since, but the screw still won't budge.

    I hoped I could just wedge the seal in, but that doesn't seem possible.

    If anyone has any tips about either extracting the screw or putting in the seal with the shower screen still in - please let me know!
    Firstly, Penetrene is best used as level3ninja outlined. Still worth a try by one or two drops a day. Pouring a ton of it over anything is just a waste of good Penetrene.

    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    One drop lots of times is far more effective than lots of drops one time. Might be worth a go.
    Secondly, it sounds like the two showerscreens are jammed solidly with coffee grounds between them. It may be worth trying some white vinegar solution to descale the machine, as removing some of the embedded grounds may relieve the tension on the screw. Then back to the Penetrene twice a day for a few days. Oh, and use a well fitted PH#2 manual screwdriver gently to try to move the screw. A power screwdriver will just burr the head of the screw too easily.

    The photo below was actually taken after some cleaning and an initial "vinegar descale". The screw took nearly three weeks to free (one drop twice a day of Penetrene, machine upside down) so I could remove the screens. When it finally freed, the screw almost flew off by itself. Oh, and the portafilter still had the dreaded plastic "mouldy coffee holder" which is the first part to remove before examining the rest of the machine - it gives you an idea of what you are up for in terms of gunk. The seal also needed replacing as the extra coffee grounds acts like a grinding paste - pretty well the only way to destroy a seal. I have never replaced a seal on any of my own machines "post first strip and clean" as I never let coffee grounds get onto them. My "Miss S" went 9 years without needing a seal replaced, one of my La Pavs did over 15 years. It really annoys me that so few people maintain their gear properly - and guys like me or you inherit the resulting trainwreck.
    IMG_1970.jpg

    Your next option is an easy-out. I found a mini set of easy outs (Alden "Grabit Micro) at Total Tools Rockingham about a week ago - it will do the M4 screw of the 6910. Generally most sets are huge, these are the first mini set I have found since the mid '80's. Used with care they will last for years, one careless move and your next issue will be to remove the embedded easy-out...

    Hope this helps


    TampIt

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    Senior Member Jackster's Avatar
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    I know it's a impossible fit, but the torque setting on your cordless drill has a fairly effective rattle motion. Set it low to begin, and slowly increase the setting. Only go as high as you can without it slipping.
    I also use a small ratchet. It's about 4" long and accepts 1/4 hex bits. Good for a bit of extra leverage...
    This is the eBay item number for similar tool: 121366206017

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    It seems counter intuitive, but try tightening the screw just a tiny bit. If you can just get the screw to move it can break it free enough for it to be removed.

    If it comes to it, you can sacrifice the outer shower screen to remove the screw.

    Using a flat head screwdriver, pry under the outer screen edge where it meets the seal until you can bend it upwards. Do the same on the opposite side.
    Once it's bent up sufficiently, you can grab it with some pliers and start turning. Usually this is enough leverage to get the screw out.

  8. #8
    Junior Member Shortie's Avatar
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    As a long-time refurbisher of 6910's you got me when you referred to using a cordless screwdriver or similar tool. How do you fit such a tool in the space between the machine base and the grouphead? I use an old, slightly pointy-tipped Philips 'stubby' screwdriver and tap it repeatedly with a hammer laid on it's flat so it can move in the small space available. Never found any of the screws in my experience to need a huge effort to shift.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shortie View Post
    As a long-time refurbisher of 6910's you got me when you referred to using a cordless screwdriver or similar tool. How do you fit such a tool in the space between the machine base and the grouphead? I use an old, slightly pointy-tipped Philips 'stubby' screwdriver and tap it repeatedly with a hammer laid on it's flat so it can move in the small space available. Never found any of the screws in my experience to need a huge effort to shift.
    Check out the Panasonic, Hitachi, Ozito or Bosch. The first three can be used either as a "barrel" or a folded "gun shape". The Bosch is designed for electronic work and is tiny (and fairly low powered). I use my 30 year old Panasonic EY500's (failing C2 NiMh batteries) or my newer Hitachi ones (Lithium ion) most days. The Ozito is on permanent duty shifting retic sectors around - and after a few years it hasn't spat its dummy yet. Oh, and you can also get bits and extenders long enough to reach into any small space over quite a distance. I rarely use manual screwdrivers since I bought the Panasonics.

    TampIt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shortie View Post
    As a long-time refurbisher of 6910's you got me when you referred to using a cordless screwdriver or similar tool. How do you fit such a tool in the space between the machine base and the grouphead? I use an old, slightly pointy-tipped Philips 'stubby' screwdriver and tap it repeatedly with a hammer laid on it's flat so it can move in the small space available. Never found any of the screws in my experience to need a huge effort to shift.
    G'day Shortie

    cordless screwdriver: My little Bosch fits easily between group and the drip tray (i.e. tray still installed). Not very powerful, as it is designed for sensitive electronic work. My Ozito, Panasonic (EY500 from the early 80's, still around in a new model) and my new Hitachis (virtually a Li ion version of the old Panasonics with way more torque settings and power) are all foldable screwdrivers and fit in with the drip tray removed. The P and H ones are powerful enough to break your wrist if you are careless... There are an enormous range of bits and extenders available these days to get into almost any confined space - if you can get a manual screwdriver / socket / extractor in there the Hitachi can do the job. I rarely use a manual screwdriver these days and I only use my 18V DeWalt impact driver for large construction type (think 5/8" whitworth) bolts.

    TampIt

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    Many thanks all who replied and sorry for the lack of reply - I got a bit crook and out of internet world.
    In the end I took it to a sheet metal fabricators and they removed the screw intact and charged me the princely sum of $15, so that was worth it over yet more buggerising around!
    I've put the seal in and it now doesn't leak, but the handle still goes right over to the right hand side (about two o'clock if 12 is straight ahead), almost to the physical limit of that turn (i.e. even if the seal wasn't in, it can't go much further).
    It's had daily, but moderate, use for 18 months and the collar doesn't appear damaged - I replaced the collar on my previous EM6910 (or similar model), so I'm pretty confident I know what I'm looking for. The handle has always gone well to the right, but if anything it seems to be going further and I can only, after a few preliminary shots, get a good pour if I overfill the basket.
    I've read over recent years that the Sunbeam build quality has deteriorated and I've certainly felt that's the case with this replacement machine - everything just feels not quite as good.

    I'm pretty sure I put the seal in properly, I went over it a number of times and referred to online diagrams, but if anyone knows of any obvious mistakes that are commonly made by idiots like me, please chime in!

  12. #12
    Senior Member Jackster's Avatar
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    Maybe shim it.
    Do your 5c test to get the dose weight, and fine up the grind on some fresh beans

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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy-o View Post
    Many thanks all who replied and sorry for the lack of reply - I got a bit crook and out of internet world.
    In the end I took it to a sheet metal fabricators and they removed the screw intact and charged me the princely sum of $15, so that was worth it over yet more buggerising around!
    I've put the seal in and it now doesn't leak, but the handle still goes right over to the right hand side (about two o'clock if 12 is straight ahead), almost to the physical limit of that turn (i.e. even if the seal wasn't in, it can't go much further).
    It's had daily, but moderate, use for 18 months and the collar doesn't appear damaged - I replaced the collar on my previous EM6910 (or similar model), so I'm pretty confident I know what I'm looking for. The handle has always gone well to the right, but if anything it seems to be going further and I can only, after a few preliminary shots, get a good pour if I overfill the basket.
    I've read over recent years that the Sunbeam build quality has deteriorated and I've certainly felt that's the case with this replacement machine - everything just feels not quite as good.

    I'm pretty sure I put the seal in properly, I went over it a number of times and referred to online diagrams, but if anyone knows of any obvious mistakes that are commonly made by idiots like me, please chime in!
    G'day Billy-o

    Firstly - my earlier post disappeared and then posted anyway after I redid it... apologies for the near duplication.

    No obvious mistake. The newer SBs almost always use a spacer as their clearances are fairly notional. Use a thin paper or card spacer above the seal to sort the clearance out. If the collar is OK and the seal is good it will be a semi-permanent solution.

    Build quality - I agree. All my friends plus my own 6910s are pre 2010 with one exception - and it is barely up to scratch. Look at the drip tray - "red dot good", red rectangle poor" in the secondhand area. The newer ones have about 4mm less clearance (first use of the 2010 I smashed a favourite cup), less steam power, less shot power and are noisier. The latter is possibly to make their 7000 seem even further up market - FWIW, my 2014 7000 has even less shot power and some "person" introduced an automatic milk frothing system that is a gigantic move backwards.

    Hope this helps


    TampIt

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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post

    If the collar is OK and the seal is good it will be a semi-permanent solution.
    Yeah, looks like it, what a pain, why would you build a machine that needed a hack just for the seal to sit right?

    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    Build quality - I agree.
    Yeah, my previous (2009-ish) machine lasted well, with consistent quality coffee until about 2016, when the steam pump went. I'd spent countless hours fixing various things, including new collar (huge job, had to use a screw extractor for one of the last screws), many seals, a shower screen, putting bits of folded-up cardboard to replace the broken contact spring in the steam wand handle (I found it impossible to get these parts, even via my electrician brother), but when the seam pump went I couldn't face any more! It still pulls good coffees.

    I thought I'll get the same again, but it does seem like an inferior machine. Some bean-counter has kept shaving off costs, but in the end Sunbeam will regain its reputation for inferior product. What an own goal.



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