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Thread: Lelit - 57mm vs 58mm group head size

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    Lelit - 57mm vs 58mm group head size

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    Hey guys,
    Can anyone share their wisdom as far as any perceivable difference in brewing between the non standard 57mm size portafilter and the 58mm size found in slightly higher end machines?
    I just bought a Lelit Combi PID and feel that I would be happier with a higher end machine.
    My main concern is getting a good full 42g extraction from the double basket in under 30 secs....

    Would the larger group has and bigger portafilter make much of a difference? I'm considering selling this new machine to upgrade to the Lelit Victoria.

    Thanks for any advice.

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    338
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    It will be interesting to see if you can taste the difference with relatively similar machines and grouphead designs from the same brand.

    Whatever you do don't upgade all the way to the Izzo Valexia https://www.casaespresso.com.au/izzo-valexia-leva.html as it's San Marco grouphead is only 55mm.

    The San Marco gets very good reviews, it might be about the design, temp stability, etc (and rest of machine) rather than just the size


    Ps I would do a taste test at a dealer before upgrading, doesn't quite seem a big enough jump

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    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    In my opinion, no.

    Had a nemox (lelit rebadge) for years and it made ripper shots.

    The double basket was a decent size.

    58mm “standard “ group does give you options for larger baskets and more choice etc.

    I wouldn’t worry about finishing the extraction at 30 seconds. I generally keep going until it blonds, and prefer the taste of slow pours compared to fast.

    Cheers
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    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    It will be interesting to see if you can taste the difference with relatively similar machines and grouphead designs from the same brand.

    Whatever you do don't upgade all the way to the Izzo Valexia https://www.casaespresso.com.au/izzo-valexia-leva.html as it's San Marco grouphead is only 55mm.

    The San Marco gets very good reviews, it might be about the design, temp stability, etc (and rest of machine) rather than just the size


    Ps I would do a taste test at a dealer before upgrading, doesn't quite seem a big enough jump
    Thanks. It's hard to tell without having both machines to test. I'm coming from a HX machine some time ago, and a fully commercial wega machine at work, so I'm fussy. Especially at 6am in the morning.

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    338
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    Adam, i have never touched a Victoria but have a 57mm lelit. I always thought from reading the specs and photos that the Victoria offered a more common grouphead size, auto refill and nicer skin. A pricepoint up adding convenience (and versatility of accessories ) without being necessarily a taste improvement. I would ring Jetblackespresso.com.au to check for sure.

    Would have thought something like an E61 (even single boiler) would be a larger step, offering pre infusion and 4.5kg of temperature stability, to make any change worthwhile. Plenty of other options available.

    For what it is worth very happy with espresso from my 57mm lelit after the first year or two of practice. Changing my grinder also made a big change.

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    Senior Member CafeLotta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam76 View Post
    Hey guys,
    Can anyone share their wisdom as far as any perceivable difference in brewing between the non standard 57mm size portafilter and the 58mm size found in slightly higher end machines?
    I just bought a Lelit Combi PID and feel that I would be happier with a higher end machine.
    My main concern is getting a good full 42g extraction from the double basket in under 30 secs....


    Would the larger group has and bigger portafilter make much of a difference? I'm considering selling this new machine to upgrade to the Lelit Victoria.


    Thanks for any advice.
    57mm v 58mm basket/group size would be more about the capability of the machine and user than the filter basket size I'd imagine. The biggest benefit of the 58mm is that any additional tampers, filter baskets or funnels you buy can be carried through to the next upgrade as 58mm is the standard in higher end machines. 57mm is a bit of an oddball size and not very widespread. Precision baskets and tampers are easily found for 58mm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    Adam, i have never touched a Victoria but have a 57mm lelit. I always thought from reading the specs and photos that the Victoria offered a more common grouphead size, auto refill and nicer skin. A pricepoint up adding convenience (and versatility of accessories ) without being necessarily a taste improvement. I would ring Jetblackespresso.com.au to check for sure.

    Would have thought something like an E61 (even single boiler) would be a larger step, offering pre infusion and 4.5kg of temperature stability, to make any change worthwhile. Plenty of other options available.

    For what it is worth very happy with espresso from my 57mm lelit after the first year or two of practice. Changing my grinder also made a big change.
    Thanks 338, so you think the in built grinder that comes with the Lelit Combi is the weak link? Do you thunk adding a decent external grinder wild make much difference?

    I'm still tempted to switch to the Victoria which has the common 58mm head, pre-infusion and some other benefits. Plus the external grinder that may make a difference even though is an extra cost...

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    338
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    When I got my PL41TEMD and PL44MMT (same grinder as yours just with timer) I was the weakest link by far, still am. After a years practice I got a lot better and then bought an Atom grinder. No question it improved the coffee and my thoughts were it would also be able to handle an upgrade of machine if that ever happens. The Atom both produces better coffee and is more convenient - it should do both at double the Lelit price. I had no problem at all with the Lelit, excluding the fact it was a 1/4 day job to clean, and still have it and use it travelling.

    I wouldn’t say the Lelit grinder let the machine down, more the Atom improved it. Couldn’t quantify how much was due to better grinds and how much was due to convenience which made it easier to get a better result.
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    Gotta say, for what is quite a small burr grinder, I've been mighty impressed with the Combi grinder. Without direct experience of the Victoria (which I nearly bought, then chickened out) I imagine the change will be incremental, and as stated, I'm not that convinced that difference in shot quality would be perceptible (although maybe VST baskets would get you somewhere, although again, I don't think there's much wrong with the 57mm baskets on the combi - and the 57.5mm JetBlack tamper is a perfect fit). I've also heard that the Victoria boiler takes longer to heat up than the Anita (combi) as it's bigger (300ml vs 250ml). Recovery rate on the Anita is fast, even if thermal stability is less impressive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    When I got my PL41TEMD and PL44MMT (same grinder as yours just with timer) I was the weakest link by far, still am. After a years practice I got a lot better and then bought an Atom grinder. No question it improved the coffee and my thoughts were it would also be able to handle an upgrade of machine if that ever happens. The Atom both produces better coffee and is more convenient - it should do both at double the Lelit price. I had no problem at all with the Lelit, excluding the fact it was a 1/4 day job to clean, and still have it and use it travelling.

    I wouldn’t say the Lelit grinder let the machine down, more the Atom improved it. Couldn’t quantify how much was due to better grinds and how much was due to convenience which made it easier to get a better result.
    Thanks, I was thinking a grinder only upgrade to go with the Combi might be an option I could consider.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davo View Post
    Gotta say, for what is quite a small burr grinder, I've been mighty impressed with the Combi grinder. Without direct experience of the Victoria (which I nearly bought, then chickened out) I imagine the change will be incremental, and as stated, I'm not that convinced that difference in shot quality would be perceptible (although maybe VST baskets would get you somewhere, although again, I don't think there's much wrong with the 57mm baskets on the combi - and the 57.5mm JetBlack tamper is a perfect fit). I've also heard that the Victoria boiler takes longer to heat up than the Anita (combi) as it's bigger (300ml vs 250ml). Recovery rate on the Anita is fast, even if thermal stability is less impressive.
    Yes, I agree the improvements would be incremental. And possibly not worth it.....
    Until I saw that I can get an entry level HX machine "Alfie" for only $1,499. Now that might be an upgrade worth paying for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davo View Post
    Gotta say, for what is quite a small burr grinder, I've been mighty impressed with the Combi grinder.........I'm not that convinced that difference in shot quality would be perceptible (although maybe VST baskets would get you somewhere, although again, I don't think there's much wrong with the 57mm baskets on the combi.....
    Davo, just want to get your advice.

    What is a VST basket?

    And what did you find is the optimum grind dose for the Combi machine? 18g ? 17g ? 17.5g?

    Thanks

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    I have never weighed the dose, but I did the 5 cent test and aimed to keep that level as the consistent dose.

    Cheers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam76 View Post
    Davo, just want to get your advice.

    What is a VST basket?

    And what did you find is the optimum grind dose for the Combi machine? 18g ? 17g ? 17.5g?

    Thanks
    Adam. I'm running about 18 to 18.5g in the double shot. Have never used the single. Search VST basket on this forum. It's a well trusted precision laser etched coffee basket used by many snobs that limits chanelling, and considered a worthy upgrade to many proprietary baskets

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davo View Post
    Adam. I'm running about 18 to 18.5g in the double shot. Have never used the single. Search VST basket on this forum. It's a well trusted precision laser etched coffee basket used by many snobs that limits chanelling, and considered a worthy upgrade to many proprietary baskets
    Thanks Davo, 18g is about where I'm at.
    Where can i buy one of the VST baskets?
    Cheers

  16. #16
    338
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    Adam worth knowing that VST dont make a 57mm basket. Accessories available is one of the advantages of a 58mm portafilter

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    Quote Originally Posted by 338 View Post
    Adam worth knowing that VST dont make a 57mm basket. Accessories available is one of the advantages of a 58mm portafilter
    Ok, thanks. Yes this is why I started this thread in the first place.



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