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Thread: La Pavoni Expo 2015 Boiler grime/oxidation?

  1. #1
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    La Pavoni Expo 2015 Boiler grime/oxidation?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all,

    I recently picked up a brand new La Pavoni Expo 2015 about 2 weeks ago. I've been using it once or twice a day every day since I got it and I looked into it today and saw this build up.

    I was wondering if anyone had an idea what it is and what might be causing it?


  2. #2
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Sorry mate, can't really see it properly...

    Mal.

  3. #3
    Junior Member haywooj's Avatar
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    Maybe you could use a photo editor to point to the area(s) you're trying to highlight?

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    oops sorry, my bad.

    here's an excellent red ring courtesy of paint!



    A google around makes me feel it's a mineral build up or from dry boiling.

    However, I have been using Brita filtered water and never let the tank even come close to empty

  5. #5
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Still very difficult to see it properly...
    It seems to have a very slight greenish tinge to it so it may be brass/copper oxidation precipitate, but that might down to the monitor I'm using...

    Mal.

  6. #6
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Looks green to me too. xanderle when you say "Brita filtered water, what kind of filter is that? Is it a plumbed in one (e.g. C150), or a jug type filter?
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  7. #7
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    It’s a jug filter type... which I’m beginning to assume isn’t as brilliant as I initially thought it was.

    The build up appears green to me as well, due to how new the machine is I just wasn’t expecting to see anything quite yet.

    I can try attach a better photo if that helps?
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  8. #8
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    A better photo would help us to assist you in a more targeted way...

    Mal.

  9. #9
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    The jugs donít do much for softening the water and from memory some people reported getting carbon some deposits from them.

    Get something that softens the water if you need it.

    Cheers
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  10. #10
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    Well I filled the boiler with 25% white vinegar and 75% water and let it boil for an hour.

    Mistakenly i I also ran the water through the group head and steam wand however, green be gone.

    Theres a slight discolouration inside the tank but I guess that’s to be expected I suppose.

    Getting a a decent photo is rather hard but here’s the before shot in a higher resolution and an after shot that might shine some light.

    The same region has been circled in both
    https://imgur.com/a/zk5yIxF
    https://imgur.com/a/q2SzeyH

  11. #11
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    Hi Xanderle
    Living in the oil and gas world, when I saw that my first instinct said pitting corrosion, which is when something attacks the natural oxide barrier metals have. Then I thought, don't be ridiculous, pitting corrosion in a boiler with filtered water... but then I looked into activated carbon.
    If the carbon from the filter is getting into the water and settling at the bottom of the tank, the carbon will react with the copper oxide (or chrome oxide if it's stainless) to remove the oxide and form carbon dioxide and leave copper without an oxidation barrier. I.E. it's stripping the copper (pitting). I use filtered water all the time, but I've never looked in my boiler, I guess in theory the same can happen with a stainless steel boiler.
    You should be able to feel the pits with your finger, or a probe.

    When I change filters over (built in filters), there's often a large amount of carbon that comes out in the first few litres of water. I guess once the carbon has plugged up all the gaps there's not a lot more that comes out.

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  12. #12
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    Hi Jitsukablue,

    Thanks for the reply.

    Well how bad is this and what do you recommend? I tried running a chopstick (my probe) over it but I couldn’t feel anything.

    I normally make coffee in the morning and let it cool down as I head to work so I’ve been letting a bit of water sit in it during the way which sounds like something that needs to stop.

  13. #13
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    If you can't feel it I don't think it's a major issue so long as you're not getting that residue every time you fill up. I'd just take care to not get carbon fines in there, try a different filter, or a filter that has the mesh after the carbon. Ironically if there was a nice hard water calcified layer on the bottom of the tank that'd stop the issue.

    My boiler is always filled / has some water left in it. I'll take a photo of my 10+ YO boiler in my PVL lever. It's not practical to totally empty a boiler every time it's not in use... unless you're leaving it for a very long period.
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  14. #14
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    Awesome, thanks for the help. The water gets topped up everyday so it should be fine.

    The reason I was wondering if it seemed normal was I actually bought a La Pavoni Professional and instead received an Expo 2015 inside a professional box. I never saw the product in its original packaging as the grinder and machine were set up instore to dial in the grinder for me.

    So maybe it’s seen some mileage before it made it to me.

  15. #15
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Ditch the jug filter. Either get a proper filter or just keep an eye on the scale and descale regularly. What's your location? The water quality varies greatly around Australia. I descale every 3-6 months in Sydney, but if you're in Adelaide and not filtering you'll need to do it every 2 weeks.
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  16. #16
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    Currently in Melbourne, to be honest the water tastes pretty garbage not filtered and I bought the jug explicitly for the coffee.

    When you say proper filter do you mean plumbed? Plumbed I’m isn’t really an option as I’m moving between AirBnBs a few times

  17. #17
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by level3ninja View Post
    but if you're in Adelaide and not filtering you'll need to do it every 2 weeks.
    Not sure where you came up with this gem L3n, Adelaide water is fine, been using it in espresso machines for well over 10 years without drama, I descale more or less every 6 months as a safeguard, never seen any appreciable scale build up, and have never had any scale related problems.

    I don't, and never have used any form of filter.

  18. #18
    Senior Member level3ninja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Not sure where you came up with this gem L3n, Adelaide water is fine, been using it in espresso machines for well over 10 years without drama, I descale more or less every 6 months as a safeguard, never seen any appreciable scale build up, and have never had any scale related problems.

    I don't, and never have used any form of filter.
    It was a CS member who came to that conclusion, I read their comment a year or two back. I am probably misremembering the location, might have been rural SA. My point was that it changes drastically with location, I meant no disrespect to the fine folks at SAWater.



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