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Thread: Advice required to replace current setup

  1. #1
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    Advice required to replace current setup

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi guys,

    Joined to forum the other day as I'm contemplating upgrading from my current setup.

    I currently have Delonghi Dedica along with Breville Smart grinder.

    Obviously my current setup is very entry level and I was thinking about replacing the Delonghi with a proper espresso machine as I'm getting a bit fed up with the crappy panarello steam wand and uneven coffee coming out from each side for some reason.

    After going through various options, I'm currently thinking about Lelit, either a used Victoria or PL042EMI.
    My concern is whether BSG is going to do the proper espresso machines justice.

    We currently only drink coffee on weekends but I feel that it's partly because coffee isn't that great... It's decent but nothing like the sort of coffee you see people brewing on youtube with these machines where coffee looks like caramel almost.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    Hi Coladuna,

    Personally I would also consider a up grade of grinder. that said there is nothing wrong with seeing how you go when you get the machine you are looking at. My first grinder was also a BSG and as much as it was great for what it was, when i upgraded my grinder with the same machine i had originally, i saw a big change in my coffee. I feel when looking for a new coffee machine, that paring a great grinder is more important that the coffee machine itself. If you dont mind buying second hand keep an eye out for ones that come up for sale on here.

    I went through a few grinders each improving as i went a long. I think now its at a point it would be an upgrade just because. I wish I had looked more and the type of grinder i was getting than machine all those years ago.

    With this you might see a vast improvement on the coffee you are making.

    If you think its a option to look for a grinder, put a price guide on what you are willing to spend and someone might be able to help you.


    Cheers and good luck with the upgrade,

    Chris
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    Thanks Chris.

    I was trying to limit myself to $1k budget and will be stretching the budget slightly to get the Victoria so for now, I'm not sure I would be able to upgrade the grinder as well unless I get a cheaper machine like Lelit Combi and spend the remaining budget on a grinder.

    It would be nice if I could try making a coffee using same beans and same coffee machine but using two different grinders to see how much of a difference there is

    I'm a bit annoyed that I missed out on the Lelit Kate a member here was selling for $1300. Would the grinder in the Kate be an improvement over BSG?

    How much would I need to spend to get a grinder that's significantly improved over the BSG? I guess I could sell the BSG which would partially fund a new grinder, but depends how much more money I need to spend on top...

  4. #4
    Senior Member coffeechris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coladuna View Post
    Thanks Chris.

    I was trying to limit myself to $1k budget and will be stretching the budget slightly to get the Victoria so for now, I'm not sure I would be able to upgrade the grinder as well unless I get a cheaper machine like Lelit Combi and spend the remaining budget on a grinder.

    It would be nice if I could try making a coffee using same beans and same coffee machine but using two different grinders to see how much of a difference there is

    I'm a bit annoyed that I missed out on the Lelit Kate a member here was selling for $1300. Would the grinder in the Kate be an improvement over BSG?

    How much would I need to spend to get a grinder that's significantly improved over the BSG? I guess I could sell the BSG which would partially fund a new grinder, but depends how much more money I need to spend on top...
    Hi there,

    So i dont know the Lelit brand that well, I would however stick with the machine you are getting at the moment and when you can upgrade the grinder go for it. Im assuming the lelit kate is a machine with inbuilt grinder? I cant say its bad but my preference for any machine has always been to have a separate grinder. That said space, money and many other things suit people differently. I would think without looking it would be a upgrade from the BSG though.

    As for upgrade to a grinder, it really comes down to what you are willing to spend. Willingness to take on a secondhand one is going to give you more scope on what you can buy. I personally now knowing what i know would go for something like a Eureka Mignon or Atom secondhand. I prefer personally flat burr grinders to conical burr grinders. you can pick some of these up for a reasonable price. I also like it for its way you can chance the grind setting.

    I use to have a Macap M4D and although it was a step up from the grinder before, i felt that clumping was an issues, however these are seen as also a good grinder and secondhand these can go for an even cheaper price.

    Not that it matter but I have a Eureka Zenith 65. couldn't be happier with it. so it sounds like im biased, however i feel Eureka have a nice range to choose from.


    Cheers,

    Chris
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    Thanks.

    I was actually looking at Eureka Mignon as it seems reasonably priced, doesn't look ugly and has small footprint. However, there seem to be a lot of comments about clumping issue with the Mignon which is off putting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coladuna View Post
    Thanks.

    I was actually looking at Eureka Mignon as it seems reasonably priced, doesn't look ugly and has small footprint. However, there seem to be a lot of comments about clumping issue with the Mignon which is off putting.
    Clumping depends on roast (oily, well done will clump) and humidity encourage clumping. Eureka grinders including the Mignon I think have an anti-clumping device which is some wire or something in the chute to help break up clumps. Dosers help break up clumps but on demand grinders, you get what you get. People end up stirring the grind to get rid of the clumps etc..

    I would recommend a good old fashioned (but big) ex-café grinder like a Mazzer Super Jolly provided it can fit where you want it. Doser grinders are cheap but work surprisingly well for home use and are bullet proof reliable. I saw a Eureka Zenith Grinder for about $850 brand new recently with free shipping. These grinders rock but there are a lot of models to choose from. Small home grinders can cost a fortune and commercial grinders are often a good way to start but others might disagree...

    Nothing wrong with the Mignon though as far as I can tell.

    One thing though to consider is any grinder with micrometric adjustment won't go from say a fine Turkish to espresso to filter type coffee grinding. A Mazzer will as the top carrier can be moved easily between grinds quickly although you have to remember the setting.
    Last edited by wattgn; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:04 PM.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coladuna View Post
    Thanks.

    I was actually looking at Eureka Mignon as it seems reasonably priced, doesn't look ugly and has small footprint. However, there seem to be a lot of comments about clumping issue with the Mignon which is off putting.
    A lot of people obsess with 'clumping' because they can see it. I'm not sure how many can taste its effects (assuming that they have a reasonable dosing / tamping technique). I'm not suggesting that it's irrelevant, but consistency of grind size, for example, is far more important.
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    What are people's thoughts between Nuova Simonelli Oscar II vs Lelit Victoria?
    In terms of price, I can pick up a second hand Victoria for about 300 less than the Oscar II.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coladuna View Post
    What are people's thoughts between Nuova Simonelli Oscar II vs Lelit Victoria?
    In terms of price, I can pick up a second hand Victoria for about 300 less than the Oscar II.
    The Lelit Victoria has better temperature stability than the Nuova Simonelli Oscar II due to having a PID controlled boiler which is integrated with the group head. The Oscar is a HX so there's no waiting between an extraction and steaming milk. Having said that, the Victoria has an autofill boiler in steam mode so unlike other SBDU machines there is no limit to the number of milk coffees which can be made in one go. (The Lelit Kate also has this feature.) Bottom line is: Victoria for coffee quality and Oscar for coffee quantity.

    charlie
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetBlack_Espresso View Post
    The Lelit Victoria has better temperature stability than the Nuova Simonelli Oscar II due to having a PID controlled boiler which is integrated with the group head. The Oscar is a HX so there's no waiting between an extraction and steaming milk. Having said that, the Victoria has an autofill boiler in steam mode so unlike other SBDU machines there is no limit to the number of milk coffees which can be made in one go. (The Lelit Kate also has this feature.) Bottom line is: Victoria for coffee quality and Oscar for coffee quantity.

    charlie
    Thanks Charlie. I'm leaning heavily towards Victoria and your comment almost sealed the deal.
    Can you share your experience with Lelit in terms of reliability? I had a chat to my local store yesterday and to my surprise he actually talked down the Lelit as being not as reliable as other brands and actually recommended Silvia instead. I dont' know much but from my research, extra $200 on Victoria is well worth over the Silvia?

  11. #11
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Sounds like your local retailer is getting better margins on the Rancilio range than Lelit.
    Absolutely nothing wrong with Lelit from any point of view - Build quality, materials quality and overall performance. Top units...

    Mal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dimal View Post
    Sounds like your local retailer is getting better margins on the Rancilio range than Lelit.
    Absolutely nothing wrong with Lelit from any point of view - Build quality, materials quality and overall performance. Top units...

    Mal.
    Thanks Mal. It's probably because the Lelit they are selling is second hand unit (albeit it's only had 5 months of use) and Silvia is a brand new product. I gather they have more to gain by selling a brand new product? Not sure.


    One thing that perplexed me a bit was that the guy I spoke to said Silvia only takes 5-10 mins to heat up to operating temp. Everywhere I've read mentioned it takes around 30 mins to come up to temp. Which is correct?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by coladuna View Post
    One thing that perplexed me a bit was that the guy I spoke to said Silvia only takes 5-10 mins to heat up to operating temp. Everywhere I've read mentioned it takes around 30 mins to come up to temp. Which is correct?
    I had a Silvia but I can't remember. You can feel it to estimate temperature and make your own mind up.

    My Wega takes 20 minutes to heat up so 30 minutes does sound like a long time but if you are fussy and can wait or put it on a timer then why not.

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    I buckled and went ahead with the Lelit Victoria. Will pick it up on Saturday!

    Thanks to all who provided advice.
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  15. #15
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    The default recommendation for Silvia warm-up time is at least 30 minutes to achieve a stable brew water temperature.
    After that, in order to get the best tasting coffee out of it, you will need to "temperature surf" (look it up) otherwise your results will be very inconsistent.

    Mal.

  16. #16
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coladuna View Post
    I buckled and went ahead with the Lelit Victoria. Will pick it up on Saturday!

    Thanks to all who provided advice.
    You'll be very happy with the Victoria I'm sure...

    Mal.
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  17. #17
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    The Silvia takes longer to heat up than the Lelit due to the arrangement of the group head with respect to the boiler. On the Lelit, the group head and lower boiler are one piece of metal and the group head is directly below the boiler. So when the boiler is hot the group head is only a minute behind it. On the Silvia, the boiler and group head are offset horizontally by a few centimetres so coonduction is required to transfer heat from the boiler to the group head. This takes an extra 15 or 20 minutes.

    A PID’d Lelit (eg Victoria, Kate, 41TEMD, 42TEMD, Elizabeth) adds a high level of temperature stability.

    charlie
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