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Thread: EM6910 plastic insert

  1. #1
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    EM6910 plastic insert

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Could anyone please advise if the plastic insert in the portafilter on my Sunbeam Em6910 is a needed item or can you safely take this out of the portafilter, as i suspect this insert causes a build up of oils over time and would affect the taste of the brew.

    Thanx heasp for your input ;D

    Theo

  2. #2
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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    the insert - aka "the Graeme" can (and should be) removed (I cant recall where it got that name, search on here and its there somewhere).

    take the bottom off the PF and push the insert out from underneath.

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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Thanx ill go and have a ferret for "the Graeme"

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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1167134124/20#38 date=1209124004
    The name was actually suggested by the user called DIG.
    You can read the whole story in the original post here:
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1188978543/4#4
    Also have a look in the following thread for pictures of the sort of things youll find hiding under a Graeme.
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1167134124/324


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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Thanx TG ill now set out to remove the offending "Graeme" i had a look at some of the photos yuck :P.

    Next project my own Corretto ;D

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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Is there any way to remove the graeme without removing the spout? Last time I removed one of my spouts, I ended up breaking it, the locktite was so effective.

    I have a pair of needle nose pliers with a right angle on it. Im wondering if that would get up through the spout.

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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    This is another method:

    Quote Originally Posted by ozscott link=1167134124/0#2 date=1167173094
    Blunt slighty oversized bolt with a fine thread - screw it in and lift out the offending article (what I did twice). *Ortherwise use a vise and padding to remove the spout and get it out from underneath.

    Cheers
    Instead of a bolt Ive used a large screw, like a coach screw. Slightly larger then the hole in black plastic, screw it in & pull it out. Mine came out quite easily.

  8. #8
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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Have a look at the first few posts of the thread in the following link.
    It shows what youre up against...how the graeme clips in.
    If you can push the clip together, even from only one side, it may release its grip but you cant see which way its turned with the spout still on.

    Someone in that thread was successful by heating and pulling.
    Have a read.

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1167134124/0

  9. #9
    Senior Member caffeol's Avatar
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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    I didnt like the idea of breaking the loctite seal. * I got a flat headed nail about 4 or 5 cm long where the head was just a bit smaller than the tube in the graeme. * Held the pointy end with vice grips, slipped the flat head up the graeme and moved the head off centre. * Gave it a tug and it popped out quite nicely thank you. *:)

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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Hi Caffeol,

    I used the same method as you just described. While it was a little bit fiddly finding the right spot to tug at, when it did come out, it did so without any major damage to the graeme.

    I think the trick is to get the head of the nail bridging between the two latches so that when you tug, it puts even pressure on both sides.

  11. #11
    Senior Member caffeol's Avatar
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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    I think youre right ACog. I just fluked it but when I had a good look at it I was thinking that feeling around for the split with the nail shaft might be the go. Certainly came out with no damage.

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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Ive had my new replacement EM6910 for about 6 Months and in all that time I havent removed the plastic insert. *I remember removing my original one from about 18 Months ago, but elected to leave this one as is.

    Anyway, after reading this thread, I thought Id check it out. *So I removed the double pouring spout with a set of pliers and a protective cloth. *Was able to pop out the plastic insert very easily from the bottom....and I have to tell you, no signs of alien life form.

    I think you guys just need to take a little more care in rinsing the group handle after each use *;)

    (The plastic insert is back in place....Im comfortable where it is)

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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Lucky I say.

    The 6910 I use is at work and not everyone is as thorough as I am at cleaning.

    Its not easy to clean under there.
    You have to get the water in through the spout.

    Just a quick rinse wont do it.

  14. #14
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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Oh lordy lou. I thought I had seen horrors when I modified my dual wall basket (it is now single walled) but on reading this I decided to remove the Ikons version of Graeme (Neil).

    Unspeakable horrors. "Thats odd, I wonder why they used a black rubber seal under Neil when the seals on the rest of the machine are clear..."

    They didnt. It was clear.

    I had thought I was pretty good with rinsing the portafilter on my machine but its like Breville has designed Neil so it cant be cleaned without taking the whole thing apart first. Im currently modifying it because I want to keep the spouts but there are a lot of pieces which will not be going back in. Thanks for bringing this up guys. Thank god I stumbled on it.

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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Im interested to know why its there in the first place. My assessment of the 6910 is that it is a really well designed and thought-through product - Sunbeam should be congratulated as it must be the best value around - makes great coffees too.
    Back to the plastic insert. I think there is probably a good reason for it being there. I have assumed its job was to keep the shot from losing heat to the PF which, if its not pre-heated (and maybe even if it is) will absorb heat from the shot. The plastic insulates the shot from the mass of the colder pf. I have read that it is there to improve the crema and I think this is true if it helps to keep the shot warm.

    For this reason I have resisted removing it. Any views on this?

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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Before too long you will have some funky gunk collecting under it. Looks really nasty and smells even worse

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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    I think this is another urban myth. I have had my 6910 for 2.5 months have made lots of coffees. I pulled out the plastic insert and it was almost unblemished. I took some photos if only i could work out how to upload them


  18. #18
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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Urban myth?

    Have you clicked on the link in my post above (#7)?

  19. #19
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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Quote Originally Posted by Wazz link=1222320381/0#16 date=1223453268
    I think this is another urban myth. I have had my 6910 for 2.5 months have made lots of coffees. I pulled out the plastic insert and it was almost unblemished. I took some photos if only i could work out how to upload them
    Sorry, but after having a number of systems and being a fanatic almost on cleaning...

    I have seen first hand, the mess left behind as per the pics via post #7 that Thunder references.

    You may have struch a system that has a perfect seal or some other particularity that has seen your remain so clean ( What did the PF look like) but it is more the exception rather than the rule.


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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Yes I have a photo of it too. I am fairly particular about cleaning the PF after each session, but not to the point of obsession. So, maybe I have not been using it long enough. But what about my theory?




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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    What theory?

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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    The theory that its there for a purpose - to stop the pf from sucking the heat out of the shot.

    Also, I have seen lots of discussion on how to remove it. It is easy if you have a set of those things for removing bolts and screws with damaged heads - see photo.

    With this tool you can take it out and clean it and then put it back again - best of both worlds.


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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Sure it would insulate the coffee from the pf if the pf wasnt preheated properly. But if the machine is left to heat up and the pf is left locked in the Graeme is redundant, IMHO.

    Ive never had experience with the one on the 6910 but I did own a cheapie sunbeam before silvia (now dead) and she got she got some nasty gunk. After about a year I removed it and it looked as though gunk was growing underneath.

  24. #24
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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    The point is that if you heat the pf properly like you should then you dont need the graeme.

    Its only there for the dummies that dont know better.


    By the way I dont think you can call that your theory.
    Its a well accepted fact.

  25. #25
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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Quote Originally Posted by Wazz link=1222320381/0#14 date=1223450027
    Im interested to know why its there in the first place. My assessment of the 6910 is that it is a really well designed and thought-through product - Sunbeam should be congratulated as it must be the best value around - makes great coffees too.
    Back to the plastic insert. I think there is probably a good reason for it being there. I have assumed its job was to keep the shot from losing heat to the PF which, if its not pre-heated (and maybe even if it is) will absorb heat from the shot. The plastic insulates the shot from the mass of the colder pf. I have read that it is there to improve the crema and I think this is true if it helps to keep the shot warm.

    For this reason I have resisted removing it. Any views on this?
    The pressurised baskets supplied with the 6910 are also there for a good reason - to compensate for people using the machine incorrectly (using stale preground coffee from Woolies). If you use the machine correctly (use freshly roast & ground beans and preheat the machine thoroughly) you dont need either.

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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Quote Originally Posted by m@ link=1222320381/20#24 date=1223504054
    The pressurised baskets supplied with the 6910 are also there for a good reason - to compensate for people using the machine incorrectly (using stale preground coffee from Woolies). If you use the machine correctly (use freshly roast & ground beans and preheat the machine thoroughly) you dont need either.
    This is a fallacious argument - just because one attachment is included for what you consider an ignoble purpose doesnt mean that everything else has no legitimate purpose. And anyway, I think that if the pressurised baskets help people to get a better coffee from the coffee they buy then thats legitimate too. This Coffee snobs thing can be taken a bit too far. I dont use the pressurised baskets, but not everybody has a grinder and not everybody has access to freshly brewed coffee

  27. #27
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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Pressurised baskets are used to give stale preground coffee the look of a coffee made with just ground, fresh coffee.

    They dont make the coffee better.

    And as for saying "This Coffee snobs thing can be taken a bit too far"...youll get more than one argument here about that.

    Youre not a troll are you?

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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Is that a supernatural being in Scandinavian mythology? No Im not.


  29. #29
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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Quote Originally Posted by Wazz link=1222320381/20#25 date=1223517008
    Quote Originally Posted by m@ link=1222320381/20#24 date=1223504054
    The pressurised baskets supplied with the 6910 are also there for a good reason - to compensate for people using the machine incorrectly (using stale preground coffee from Woolies). If you use the machine correctly (use freshly roast & ground beans and preheat the machine thoroughly) you dont need either.
    This is a fallacious argument - just because one attachment is included for what you consider an ignoble purpose doesnt mean that everything else has no legitimate purpose. And anyway, I think that if the pressurised baskets help people to get a better coffee from the coffee they buy then thats legitimate too. This Coffee snobs thing can be taken a bit too far. I dont use the pressurised baskets, but not everybody has a grinder and not everybody has access to freshly brewed coffee
    And I made that argument where exactly? Look up analogy.

    Both devices attempt - with little success - to compensate for deficiencies in technique; amending the technique is a better solution.

    On your other point, people generally come to this site because they want to enjoy good coffee at home and are looking for advice on how to do so. My advice, based on experience, is to use freshly roast and ground coffee and to allow their machine sufficient warmup time, with portafilter installed. You - or anyone - can choose to reject this advice, but it rather begs the question - why ask in the first place?

  30. #30
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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Quote Originally Posted by Wazz link=1222320381/20#25 date=1223517008
    not everybody has a grinder and not everybody has access to freshly brewed coffee
    We advise everyone to get a good grinder as its the most important piece of equipment needed for good coffee.
    So yes not everyone has one, but if given the choice, a coffee snob would take a grinder over a machine if they could only have one or the other.

    As for not having access to fresh coffee thats clearly wrong becuase in this day and age you can have fresh coffee delivered to your door within a few days of roasting, which is plenty of time to let it degas and be ready for use.
    Id even wait a few more days before using with some of the ones I like.

    Theres also the option of roasting your own.


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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    OK didnt want to upset anybody. The reason Im here too is the same as everyone else. I like good coffee and appreciate the tips on achieveing that. Since joining I have taken the advice: bought a reasonable grinder SB EM0480, and have been roasting my own beans with a popper and am now making better coffees than I can buy anywhere in my town. I will beg to differ on the plastic thing, but will remove it from time to time to clean up under it if necessary. I dontalways have the time to warm the 6910 up for very long - work commitments, wife and dogs all demand attention. So I think the plastic thing in theory helps me to get a consistently better shot, although I havent actually tried without it.

  32. #32
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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Have you removed the showerscreen yet to see if it needs cleaning?
    Do you use the cleaning tablets?

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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    No I thought the cleaning cycle of the 6910 should take care of that. I have done that once so far and used the tablet

  34. #34
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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Take the first showerscreen off and see how dirty it is behind.
    Its a quick job, just one phillips head screw.
    If you find it needs a scrub then also remove the second one and give it a clean as well.

  35. #35
    Senior Member Magic_Matt's Avatar
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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Im not at all upset - just dont like to have words put in my mouth! Glad youre finding the website helpful :)

    I agree that if you dont warm the machine sufficiently, the graham will probably be beneficial - but its likely to be a case of less bad rather than more good. Pouring some boiling water from the kettle over the portafilter would be better (as the cold plastic will still absorb some heat), but still doesnt address the actual problem - if the portafilter isnt up to temp, the group head probably isnt either, and youll still get sour shots.

    Im pretty busy in the mornings too, but I think this actually helps with warmup time - I switch on the machine as soon as Im out of bed, then by the time Ive finished feeding and supervising animals, making the missus a cup of tea etc the machine is ready to go!

  36. #36
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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    At work I run some hot water through the pf from the Zip tap to get the gremeless pf up to temp as I dont leave it in the machine to save wear on the seal.

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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    hi all,
    maybe a bit too late to contribute to this discussion but, being a newb, HOW LONG are you meant to leave the PF in the grouphead for in order to constitute it being adequately heated up???

    thanks
    LM

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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    Hi lattemummy,

    Quote Originally Posted by 474A5F5F4E465E4646522B0 link=1222320381/36#36 date=1270703768
    maybe a bit too late to contribute to this discussion but, being a newb, HOW LONG are you meant to leave the PF in the grouphead for in order to constitute it being adequately heated up???
    I usually leave it in there for 20-30 mins. A good indication is to touch it with your hand. If its too hot to touch for more then 3-5 seconds its ready. 8-)

  39. #39
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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    turn on
    put the pf in,
    when machine ready,
    hit long coffee button,
    pf hot
    ready to go

    this is a thermoblock, so doesnt require the same warm up time as a boiler

    graham

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    Re: EM6910 plastic insert

    hi graham,
    your advice - sounds easy - wont take 20-30min as previously suggested.
    do you put the PF in with the basket?
    I am...and turning it on manual for a 1/2 a minute.
    feels warm. that should do? or needs to be HOT?



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