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Thread: Imat Mokita/ Napoletana II Wiring

  1. #1
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    Imat Mokita/ Napoletana II Wiring

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi,

    I have disassembled/re-assembled my Imat Mokita to clean it. I detached the wiring from the boiler, but it turns out I didnt need to. Ive re-wired it, but am shorting the unit when wires are connected to what looks like a capacitator (guess) with a red button (?) on it - it blows a fuse on my power board... If its disconnected, it powers on fine. Its a bit hard to go trial and error as it cuts power to my houses appliance circuit...

    Im pretty sure its earthed OK. I cant see any bridges that could be causing a short.

    Any ideas? I understand the dangers of electrocution etc...

    Ill try and upload a photo - the attach thing isnt working in firefox.


  2. #2
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Imat Mokita/ Napoletana II Wiring

    Its a bit difficult to make any sense out of that "turkeys nest" of cables phibes but the item you have circled is the "Safety Over-Temperature Thermostat" to protect against an empty boiler situation. The contacts are normally closed and its possible that you have miswired it such that you now have a dead short created.

    Suggest you take it to an espresso service technician who can check the unit over thoroughly and make any corrections that are required, plus check over the unit for general safety issues. All the best mate; welcome to CoffeeSnobs by the way [smiley=thumbsup.gif],

    Mal.

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    Re: Imat Mokita/ Napoletana II Wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal link=1224404720/0#1 date=1224405405
    Its a bit difficult to make any sense out of that "turkeys nest" of cables phibes but the item you have circled is the "Safety Over-Temperature Thermostat" to protect against an empty boiler situation. The contacts are normally closed and its possible that you have miswired it such that you now have a dead short created.

    Suggest you take it to an espresso service technician who can check the unit over thoroughly and make any corrections that are required, plus check over the unit for general safety issues. All the best mate; welcome to CoffeeSnobs by the way [smiley=thumbsup.gif],

    Mal.
    Thanks - I disconnected that thermostat and it worked! I may have got water in it, causing a short - but if its normally closed as you say that is very odd... *Maybe Ill just get a new one.

    I like to do things myself - Ill take it to a tech if I get stuck. *BTW, whats the thread lock like stuff thats used on the brass connections? My plumbers tape isnt cutting it :)

    And whats the best PID for this thing (next project)...

    Cheers,

    Lee

  4. #4
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Imat Mokita/ Napoletana II Wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by phibes4000 link=1224404720/0#2 date=1224407596
    I like to do things myself - Ill take it to a tech if I get stuck. BTW, whats the thread lock like stuff thats used on the brass connections? My plumbers tape isnt cutting it :)
    Fair enough mate, all the caveats apply of course....

    Re: the thread-tape... As far as I know its just the standard plumbers tape, that was what was on my similar machine anyway. There are a number of Thread-Seal products around of course with probably products from Loctite being the best quality.

    Re: PID Controller.... You cant go past a PID Kits all-in kit for one of these. A Silvia kit would be easy to adapt. Jims kits are top class and include everything you need to do the job. If you prefer trying to source everything yourself, then any industrial quality controller would do the job ok and a search on the bay of evil should locate some for you. All the usual precautions apply when dealing with sellers from there of course.

    All the best,
    Mal.

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    Re: Imat Mokita/ Napoletana II Wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by phibes4000 link=1224404720/0#2 date=1224407596
    Thanks - I disconnected that thermostat and it worked!
    Does "worked" mean that there was no short and the heater comes on normally? It should be impossible for the heater to turn on with that thermostat disconnected.

    Jim


  6. #6
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Imat Mokita/ Napoletana II Wiring

    Heres a schematic, wiring diagram and photo for a standard Mokita... The schematic was taken directly from my personal machine and included connection points for the PID Controller that was fitted at the time. Hope this helps a bit,

    Cheers,
    Mal.


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    Re: Imat Mokita/ Napoletana II Wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by PIDKits link=1224404720/0#4 date=1224424819
    Quote Originally Posted by phibes4000 link=1224404720/0#2 date=1224407596
    Thanks - I disconnected that thermostat and it worked!
    Does "worked" mean that there was no short and the heater comes on normally? *It should be impossible for the heater to turn on with that thermostat disconnected.

    Jim
    sorry for my vagaries! It means there was no short; not that the heater came on. I turned it off after running some water through the steam nozzle; as I realised that I had a leak from one of the pump connecters. I dont think my plumbing tape had enough purchase, and I noticed some stuff that looked like loctite (but was assumably a sealant of some sort). Once I identify it Ill get some and re-assemble.

    BTW, as youre the PID kit guy - are you aware of any of your kits being fitted to a Mokita/Napoletana II? Thats my next mission once I figure out how all this works...

    Lee

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    Re: Imat Mokita/ Napoletana II Wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal link=1224404720/0#5 date=1224426606
    Heres a schematic, wiring diagram and photo for a standard Mokita... The schematic was taken directly from my personal machine and included connection points for the PID Controller that was fitted at the time. Hope this helps a bit,

    Cheers,
    Mal.
    Thats awesome! What sort of PID did you use? Some of the eBay ones appear OK, but I will do more research before I fork out for one of the PID Kits ones...

    Thanks...

  9. #9
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    Re: Imat Mokita/ Napoletana II Wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by phibes4000 link=1224404720/0#7 date=1224479999
    What sort of PID did you use? Some of the eBay ones appear OK, but I will do more research before I fork out for one of the PID Kits ones...
    There are quite a few well known manufacturers of these units.... Its just a matter of ensuring you get one that is compatible with Aussie Mains Power and that it has the Inputs/Outputs to suit the job. It is also handy to buy one that has an "Auto-Tuning" feature as this may cut down on the time taken to establish the control parameters for decent control of the Boiler.

    The one I used is a very generic type and probably not that dissimilar to the units you saw on evilBay. This is the actual unit I used, the DIN-16 one (48x48mm), mainly because I got it for a very attractive price and that it had the basic functions I required. Dont think you can buy them all that cheaply anymore though, unless you know someone in the industry who can get one for you.

    All the best,
    Mal.

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    Re: Imat Mokita/ Napoletana II Wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by phibes4000 link=1224404720/0#6 date=1224479880
    BTW, as youre the PID kit guy - are you aware of any of your kits being fitted to a Mokita/Napoletana II? Thats my next mission once I figure out how all this works...
    Lee -

    I cannot recall a kit being used on a Mokita. *We have had a few customers successfully install kits on LeLit machines, which I believe are similar.

    Looking at your photo, and at Mals wiring diagram, I dont immediately see any difficulties. *The most important consideration is probably your comfort level in "translating" from Rancilio to Mokita (we do not offer the same detailed step-by-step installation guide for any machine besides the Silvia).

    I think youd find the machines to be very similar.

    Jim

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    Re: Imat Mokita/ Napoletana II Wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal link=1224404720/0#8 date=1224489293
    Quote Originally Posted by phibes4000 link=1224404720/0#7 date=1224479999
    What sort of PID did you use? Some of the eBay ones appear OK, but I will do more research before I fork out for one of the PID Kits ones...
    There are quite a few well known manufacturers of these units.... Its just a matter of ensuring you get one that is compatible with Aussie Mains Power and that it has the Inputs/Outputs to suit the job. It is also handy to buy one that has an "Auto-Tuning" feature as this may cut down on the time taken to establish the control parameters for decent control of the Boiler.

    The one I used is a very generic type and probably not that dissimilar to the units you saw on evilBay. This is the actual unit I used, the DIN-16 one (48x48mm), mainly because I got it for a very attractive price and that it had the basic functions I required. Dont think you can buy them all that cheaply anymore though, unless you know someone in the industry who can get one for you.

    All the best,
    Mal.
    I got an auber controller from eBay. I havent installed it yet; as Im still trying to get it working stock. From what I can tell connecting, disconnecting wires and testing with my multimeter:
    • there are no continuity problems; wiring appears correct
    • the heater element reads about 55 Ohm; but I can see signs of corrosion on one of its terminals
    • unless I disconnect the blue wire from the element (all other wires connected), the machine short-circuits; disconnecting the red only still leads to the short circuit.


    Does that suggest that I need a new element? I got its terminals wet when I was cleaning it...

    Cheers,

    Lee

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    Re: Imat Mokita/ Napoletana II Wiring

    All sorted - my element was the problem. Probably because I had gotten the element terminals wet...

    Now I just have to flush loads of red residue out. As I replaced the bottom half of the boiler, and used automotive thread sealant (permatex high temp - white); am hoping it isnt something dodgy.

    Got my PID working nicely; used the Auber kit with a screw sensor ...

  13. #13
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Imat Mokita/ Napoletana II Wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by phibes4000 link=1224404720/0#11 date=1226390746
    All sorted - my element was the problem. Probably because I had gotten the element terminals wet...
    Good stuff phibes [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    Quote Originally Posted by phibes4000 link=1224404720/0#11 date=1226390746
    Now I just have to flush loads of red residue out. As I replaced the bottom half of the boiler, and used automotive thread sealant (permatex high temp - white); am hoping it isnt something dodgy.
    This "red stuff" isnt that horrible smelly goop that you can still smell months after using it on an engine; is it? If it is, youll never get rid of the taint from your coffee mate, this stuff just permeates everything and will probably make the coffee undrinkable.
    From memory, I believe the two halves of the Boiler were sealed by a high temperature Viton O-Ring (food safe). If possible, you should try to acquire a couple of these from a local Bearing Service store; they usually stock things like this and are very cheap to buy.....

    Quote Originally Posted by phibes4000 link=1224404720/0#11 date=1226390746
    Got my PID working nicely; used the Auber kit with a screw sensor ...
    Gotta love two wins in a row phibes, I hope that sealant doesnt cause you any grief.

    Cheers, :)
    Mal.

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    Re: Imat Mokita/ Napoletana II Wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by phibes4000 link=1224404720/0#11 date=1226390746
    Now I just have to flush loads of red residue out. As I replaced the bottom half of the boiler, and used automotive thread sealant (permatex high temp - white); am hoping it isnt something dodgy.
    This "red stuff" isnt that horrible smelly goop that you can still smell months after using it on an engine; is it? If it is, youll never get rid of the taint from your coffee mate, this stuff just permeates everything and will probably make the coffee undrinkable.
    From memory, I believe the two halves of the Boiler were sealed by a high temperature Viton O-Ring (food safe). If possible, you should try to acquire a couple of these from a local Bearing Service store; they usually stock things like this and are very cheap to buy.....

    Hi Mal,

    I did use an o-ring(s) from the coffee parts supplier (they were red though). The only possibly dodgy thing I used was the high temp thread sealant (cures white). I cleaned the machine and have run a lot of water through; now I only get a few specs. Going to tr a taste test sson; but Im leaning toward a dodgy o-ring (no leaks though)...

    Cheers,

    Lee

  15. #15
    matblack
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    Re: Imat Mokita/ Napoletana II Wiring

    This is Mals old Imat if it helps.


  16. #16
    matblack
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    Re: Imat Mokita/ Napoletana II Wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by phibes4000 link=1224404720/0#0 date=1224404717
    Hi,

    I have disassembled/re-assembled my Imat Mokita to clean it. *I detached the wiring from the boiler, but it turns out I didnt need to.
    How could you clean it without removing the wiring? I am curious because Im attempting this myself. The standard wiring is OK to remove and replace, it just clips in per photo but the PID is beyond my limited abilities.

    I want to check the solenoid and I guess I should remove/clean the boiler while Im at it. Although maybe just purging it with some dilute citric acid through the reservoir will do the trick?



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