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Thread: 6910/0480 problem

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    6910/0480 problem

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Folks,

    I get a 7 or 8 second pour all the time for a single shot.

    I have set the grinder to its finest level, and tamp 3 or 4 times hard as I do the grind/tamp/grind/tamp routine.

    The coffee is super-freshly ground.

    I use the non-pressurised basket, have removed the plastic "thingy" and use a stainless steel tamper.

    I just cannot get the slow, thick pour that I see on the video.

    The shot tastes good, but has not very much body.

    Any ideas, please?

  2. #2
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    Could be that you are fracturing the puck or channeling has occurred ie water under pressure will find the point of least resistance which may be the sides or cracks in the coffee puck from incorrect distribution or tamping. Three or four tamps is completely unnecesaary - try the two tamps - one very light one using almost no pressure, just the weight of the tamper then a firmer one of 15 - 20 kg (practice with bathroom scales.

    Also, dosing is important - too little can cause fast poors; overdosing can cause fractures when the puck is pressed against the group head.

  3. #3
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    How much room is there from he top of the puck to the top of the basket after youve tamped?

    Where does the needle reach during the pour?

    Have you tried using the double basket for a comparison?

    When was the coffee roasted?

    Where are you?

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    Thanks.

    I gather that you mean that I should fill the PF basket to overflowing, then the 2 tamps?

    I did the Sunbeam school, and they recommend that the top of the tamped coffee should be a couple of millimetres down from the rim - what do you reckon?

    Thanks again - Chris

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    First reply was to Flynne - this one to ThunderGod.

    1. How much room is there from he top of the puck to the top of the basket after youve tamped?
    A couple of millimetres.

    2. Where does the needle reach during the pour?
    Not quite to the 12 o clock position.

    3. Have you tried using the double basket for a comparison?
    Nope - will try.

    When was the coffee roasted?
    4. Within the last week.

    Where are you?
    5. Adelaide.

    Thanks for the help - Chris


  6. #6
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    It does sound like using the double basket and dose/distribute/tamp is the answer to your problems. Doing that in a single basket is more difficult than with a double basket.

    Ill leave it to TG to provide further advice as Im not experienced with the Sunbeam.

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    Assuming you are using enough coffee, I would suggest that you take apart the grinder and make sure it is assembled correctly. It sounds like your grind is too coarse, which could be as a result of the grinder burrs not being lined up right.

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    Thanks.

    A workmate has the same grinder, so I will compare.

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    Not much use comparing, as very few em480s are the same, nor will they have the same settings.

    When you say its set to "fine", is it as fine as it will go on the grinder, or is there still room?

    I would be inclined to take the bottom burr off and add a "spacer" (washer) or 2 and then try again. The spacers are readily available from Sunbeam or if you take one in to your local hardware shop, they should have them there also.

    If you are getting fast pours using the single basket, odds are that the double will only be worse as there is more surface area on the bottom of the PF basket and things tend to flow quicker through the double than the single (as an example on my 480, I adjust the grinder by 2 clicks coarser when going from double to single).

    My money would be on the need for additional washers below the bottom burr

    Sen

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    Thanks.

    Out with the tools tonight!

  11. #11
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    Quote Originally Posted by peteru link=1226270851/0#6 date=1226278399
    It sounds like your grind is too coarse
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Senator link=1226270851/0#8 date=1226281903
    Not much use comparing, as very few em480s are the same, nor will they have the same settings.

    When you say its set to "fine", is it as fine as it will go on the grinder, or is there still room?

    I would be inclined to take the bottom burr off and add a "spacer" (washer) or 2 and then try again. The spacers are readily available from Sunbeam or if you take one in to your local hardware shop, they should have them there also.
    Good points.

    Quote Originally Posted by Senator link=1226270851/0#8 date=1226281903
    If you are getting fast pours using the single basket, odds are that the double will only be worse as there is more surface area on the bottom of the PF basket
    I disagree. More coffee will slow down the pour.

    @ ChrisLevo - without changing the grind, try the double basket - all things being equal the guage should go higher and the pour should slow down.

    - try a finer grind to start with if you can; if you cant, try the additional washer as Senator has suggested.



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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    How old is the grinder - if it is quite new get a replacement!

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    its my experience on my 6910 that the single basket will not accept the same grind as the double (chokes) so I would have thought that if there isnt enough resistence in the smaller single, then the increase in the surface area of the double basket would enhance the problem, hadnt thought about the increase in volume of coffee having any effect. TG probably has more experience than me, so worth a try I guess

    Sen

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    Thanks, all.

    Its under warranty, so email sent to Poppy.

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    It may not even require any tools. Just take the grinder apart as per the cleaning instructions in the manual and give it a good clean. Pay extra attention when reassembling all parts to make sure that everything lines up perfectly, without any bits of coffee preventing parts from fully sliding into position.

    When set to the finest grind, the coffee should come out as a fine powder, suitable for Turkish style coffee. The kind of grind that would clog up an espresso machine.

  16. #16
    A_M
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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisLevo link=1226270851/0#7 date=1226278996
    Thanks.

    A workmate has the same grinder, so I will compare.
    Lots of posts as to adjusting the EM0480 and issues of fine or course outcomes...


    1: Status of coffee beans - Last week was indicated but by who ?

    If the 0480 is setup up such that a setting of about 12 is Ok, then a setting of about 6 should choke the EM6910..

    2: RTFM and do a clean and check the seating of the top burr

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    I did RTFM, as I write them for a living, and have cleaned it a few times.

    The manual does not mention adjustment of the burrs, but says to have them replaced when they no longer grind coffee sufficiently fine.

    I emailed Poppy, and a washer is on its way :-)

    Thanks all for suggestions, and Poppy for Customer Servive above and beyond the call of duty.

  18. #18
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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisLevo link=1226270851/0#16 date=1226289145
    I did RTFM, as I write them for a living, and have cleaned it a few times.

    The manual does not mention adjustment of the burrs, but says to have them replaced when they no longer grind coffee sufficiently fine.

    I emailed Poppy, and a washer is on its way :-)

    Thanks all for suggestions, and Poppy for Customer Servive above and beyond the call of duty.
    There is no formal SB method to adjust the burrs... However in many posts you will see that myself and others have had to make adjustments via washers or other methods to manage any slackness in the plastic burr holders.

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    Thanks.

    I looked around, but obviously not hard enough :-[

    Writing User Guides is very difficult, as you dont know where to stop - too much information gets people fiddling with things and busting them, and too little can be frustrating - like now.

    I didnt take any offence, BTW, and appreciate the assistance - this is a great forum.

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    I finally found a photo guide, and who posted it?

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1224056299/0#0

    Thanks - printed and going home with me :)

  21. #21
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    Heres a copy of the Service Manual.
    Page 5 shows the burr and washer (Item 28).


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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    Thank you so very much - printing it now :)

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    Yes it definitely sounds like a Grinder problem. If you set the Grinder to its finest setting (and the grinder is functioning properly), the coffee will be so fine that there is no way the 6910 will be able to push through the water in the manner you describe. Especially since you mention that the gauge doesnt even get to 12 oclock.

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    I am very interested to know the outcome - I too am having the same issue with my 0480.

    Out of warranty (only recently became further educated in coffee by reading this site, i quickly realised a 10sec shot was not normal!) and Sunbeam sent me 2 extra spacers which I will install tonight

    It has always had a fast pour on the finest setting, with borderline overdosing and hard hard tamping :/




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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    Perhaps Im lucky....but mine sits at around 14 on the EM0480

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    Quote Originally Posted by kofi link=1226270851/20#23 date=1226451068
    I am very interested to know the outcome - I too am having the same issue with my 0480.

    Out of warranty (only recently became further educated in coffee by reading this site, i quickly realised a 10sec shot was not normal!) and Sunbeam sent me 2 extra spacers which I will install tonight

    It has always had a fast pour on the finest setting, with *borderline overdosing and hard hard tamping :/


    How did you go?

    My spacer(s) has/have not arrived yet.

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    Installed one spacer and it did seem to grind finer, spent a long while grinding/ dosing/ tamping and am yet to get to a stage of choking the machine on finest grind post-mod (i will use this as a base and work coarser from there). Definately better than what it was .

    Sunbeam sent me another spacer too, so if i cant work it out with further dosing/ tamping testing then i will install that spacer aswell and go from there

    I cant tell you how many beans i have been through...!

    I actually got a nicely timed shot with supermarket beans, thought fantastic! ive worked it out - i can use my fresh roasted now!... switched to the fresh beans and im back at square one :(

    half my shot is crema!?! 17 second shot, finest grind, two pretty firm tamps and basket packed full enough that i have to give twist with a bit of force to get the group handle into position...

    Its so frustrating (and expensive!) but i guess every newbie has to start somewhere ::)
    Any feedback on this would be appreciated - im starting to get disheartened and I cant wait to see what my Gaggia Classic can actually do, when some skill is actually applied!

  28. #28
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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    try another spacer, tamp only once and dont full the basket quite so much.

    You shouldnt have to "force" the PF into place, this may be damaging the puck and creating some channeling (and thereby causing a fast flow).

  29. #29
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    17 seconds isnt horrendous--remember that anything in the region of 25-30 seconds for 40-60ml. is fine--if it tastes right!

    And do have a look at the videos of Scottie doing it right (or at least one version of right) on a VBM. Further directions to the videos here http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1226534950.

    Greg

  30. #30
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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    By Sunbeams standards 17 seconds is too long.

    I was reading their website today while looking for the details of my nearest service agent (Ive booked the 6910 in for the worn collar) and found where they say that 6 - 10 seconds is the expected pour time for all their coffee machines.

    How long should I allow the coffee extraction to go for
    Coffee extraction should take somewhere from 6 to 10 seconds.

    Applicable to all models: All


    http://www.sunbeam.com.au/Pages/Support/FAQs.aspx

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    However the DVD that comes with the machine and the Training Course educate a traditional pour time.


    I know which one I prefer! :D

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    Using the double basket I can get 2 X 30mls in 30 seconds shots with my 6910:

    1) using Ethiopian single origin beans 10 days from roast with the EM0450 grinder set on "5" and a "fill/3 settling taps of the portafilter on a bumper box/light tamp - fill/3 settling taps/light tamp - fill/3 settling taps / fill/grooming scrape/ 15kg tamp - routine.

    2) Using 10 day from roasting Mocha , I need to do the same routine, but with the grinder set on "6"

    The routine gives me 20grams in the basket, and, yes, I still measure everything.

    OCD is my friend.

    *

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    ALL FIXED *:) :) :)

    I called Sunbeam after Poppy had left for the day, and Catherine sent me the attached Calibration Guide.

    That was what I had done, but its nice to see it with the manufacturers name on it. so not voiding any warranty.

    It started spewing out coarse grinds, no matter what I did, so on the phone to Sunbeam again.

    This time I think that I spoke with Louise, who said to take it back for a new one.

    I did, and now get perfect espresso grounds on 19 or 20.

    Great forum, and absolutely fantastic service from Sunbeam.




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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    If you are getting fast pours using the single basket, odds are that the double will only be worse as there is more surface area on the bottom of the PF basket

    Thundergod
    I disagree. More coffee will slow down the pour.
    This is interesting. I typically use the single dose filter but when I use the same grind with the double dose filter the pour occurs much quicker (and that is with a firmer tamp). I guess it must be something to do with my "technique"?

  35. #35
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    That is interesting.

    Think about it.....to slow down the pour you have to restrict the water flow.
    One way is to grind finer so the water has smaller gaps to squeeze through.
    The other way is to add more coffee so the water has further to travel.

    Do you fill to the same distance from the top of the baskets?

  36. #36
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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    My thought is that there is more holes on the bottom of the double filter than the single, therefore less "back pressure" on the puck from the double (same theory as using double floor basket that has less holes to create pressure) and therefore requires more resistence from the coffee than the single basket.

    Do you have the double / single at the office TG to try an experiment with?

    I guess the variable that would be difficult to control is ensuring (as you have said) that the coffee is the same level in each basket (in terms of MM from the top).

    Sen

  37. #37
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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    I take my own double to work (theyve lost 2) and the original single is there as well as both pressurised baskets.

    I always drink doubles so havent used the single much, except for the occasional someone else.

    The machine has been in for repair but Im picking it up in the morning.

    I might consider an experiment.
    What did you want me to test?
    I already know that the single needs a courser grind in this case; I think the design of the basket has an effect. Instead of the smaller volume and number of holes equating to an equal pour speed, it actually slows it down if all other variables are equal.

  38. #38
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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    Like TG said, the single basket needs a courser grind than the double on the beamer! On an O480 I move up two clicks.

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1226270851/20#34 date=1227151659
    That is interesting.

    Think about it.....to slow down the pour you have to restrict the water flow.
    One way is to grind finer so the water has smaller gaps to squeeze through.
    The other way is to add more coffee so the water has further to travel.

    Do you fill to the same distance from the top of the baskets?
    I believe the height from the top is the same. All I am saying is that my experience is different from your theory - I dont disagree with it and possibly there is something else going on. To get the same pour I have to tamp much harder with the same grind when I *move from a single filter to the double. I typically have a pretty strong tamp so maybe thats the issue.

  40. #40
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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    There must be something else going on Justin as its not theory.
    I have used the single basket on the 6910 a few times.
    As for strength of tamp, it can only contribute so much.

    It is curious.


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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    I think all that it shows is that different techniques on the "same" machine can yield different results (much like a finer grind, less coffee can achieve a 30 in 30, as can a coarse grind and updosed basket and to some extent a light vs heavier tamp etc).

    Guess this is one reason that it is such a fun hobby / obsession....

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    Re: 6910/0480 problem

    I think all that it shows is that different techniques on the "same" machine can yield different results...
    Definately! Ive got the Sunbeam 6910/0480 combo and Im finding that a relatively course grind (dial set to 19) and an extremely light tamp (I literally just rest the tamper on top of the PF) chokes the machine when I use the single basket. Ive had much more success with the double basket. I still give it just one light tamp (though not as light as with the single basket) but Im getting fairly good pours.



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