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Thread: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

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    Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    i havent played much with nutating, but have read some stuff about it.
    i dont know if it was designed with the intent of declumping or compensating for a clumped grind.

    i think it was designed as a way of getting a good side adhesion of the puck to the basket with a tamper that has the space for it. greg can hopefully chime in here but im under the impression (and ready to be wrong here) that a convex tamper tamped straight down does a similar job to a flat based tamper nutated.


    one problem i see with nutating is that it may be difficult to evenly apply pressure to the puck (which is generally not full pressure).

    aaron

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 130E0A0F0404610 link=1235257647/41#41 date=1235434553
    i think it was designed as a way of getting a good side adhesion of the puck to the basket with a tamper that has the space for it.
    Dont think so mate....

    I was using this method way before I ever found CoffeeSnobs or even before the Net coffee scene was a vague thought in the minds of we coffee geeks. Anyway, I developed it for myself and as the results in the cup became way more consistent as a result, I have stuck with it.... Engineering knowledge can be applied to the most ordinary activities in order to extract an extraordinary outcome ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by 130E0A0F0404610 link=1235257647/41#41 date=1235434553
    greg can hopefully chime in here but im under the impression (and ready to be wrong here) that a convex tamper tamped straight down does a similar job to a flat based tamper nutated.
    Nope, a nutating tamp would NOT work with a Convex Tamper as the radius of the tamper base would establish a "socket" in the puck after a very short time with the tamper as the "ball", thereby resulting in very little displacement of the grains of coffee.

    And no, a Convex Tamper just pressed straight down does not replicate the action of a nutating flat base tamper. The nutating action, if done properly, displaces the grains of coffee around the basket (the nutating action and the final tamp are two separate actions) and as such, removes voids, clumps or any other inconsistency that may result in uneven extraction.

    Quote Originally Posted by 130E0A0F0404610 link=1235257647/41#41 date=1235434553
    one problem i see with nutating is that it may be difficult to evenly apply pressure to the puck (which is generally not full pressure).
    Not at all, as I mentioned above, the two actions are completely separate.... The nutating action which swirls the grains around the basket and then the tamp which is easily applied perfectly flat each and every time once the coffee is evenly distributed in the basket.

    Cheers :)
    Mal.

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    hhmm, points taken Mal, but i cant say that i agree with all of them.

    please explain how nutating breaks up clumps MORE SO than a regular tamping action does.

    perhaps, nutating should be called "maling" after its creator? :)

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    at a guess it is the different angle that allows the coffee grinds to be pushed closer to each other than can reasonable be achieved in merely one direction. *I am doing it now - thanks Mal!

    Cheers

    PS. I agree that it should be henceforth referred to as doing the Mal or Maltamping.

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    I think this all desrves its own post!

    Points are all very useful, but they might get lost in this post as we have moved from grinders to doing a Mal! I know I would like to get a bit more on the benefits of nutating.

    Cheers.

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 2B3E37272B3030440 link=1235257647/44#44 date=1235510661
    at a guess it is the different angle that allows the coffee grinds to be pushed closer to each other than can reasonable be achieved in merely one direction. *I am doing it now - thanks Mal!

    Cheers

    PS. *I agree that it should be henceforth referred to as doing the Mal or Maltamping. *
    malpractice even... :P

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 283531343F3F5A0 link=1235257647/46#46 date=1235525777
    Quote Originally Posted by 2B3E37272B3030440 link=1235257647/44#44 date=1235510661
    at a guess it is the different angle that allows the coffee grinds to be pushed closer to each other than can reasonable be achieved in merely one direction. *I am doing it now - thanks Mal!

    Cheers

    PS. *I agree that it should be henceforth referred to as doing the Mal or Maltamping. *
    malpractice even... :P
    ...and the resulting beautiful shot would be malicious! ::)

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 5B4642474C4C290 link=1235434554/2#2 date=1235506446
    hhmm, points taken Mal, but i cant say that i agree with all of them.

    please explain how nutating breaks up clumps MORE SO than a regular tamping action does.
    You really need to understand a bit of the theory of how a Nutating Disc works as a "Positive Displacement" device in order to appreciate why it works. Basically, youre not just twirling the tamper around on the top of the coffee puck but physically displacing the ground coffee around the basket. Heres a brief explanation of how it works in a "Flowmeter" but the theory remains the same regardless of how you use it.... http://tinyurl.com/ca8g4a

    Quote Originally Posted by 5B4642474C4C290 link=1235434554/2#2 date=1235506446
    perhaps, nutating should be called "maling" after its creator? *:)
    I had a laugh, I didnt create it mate, the concept of Nutating Motion has been around for centuries. I only adapted it for use with a tamper based on my engineering knowledge and experience in the field. Found that it did the trick and so kept on using it. The sort of thing we CSrs are doing all the time.... ;)

    Mal.

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    There is a reasonable video of a nutating tamp here for those interested
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...14524083351805

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Anything that improves the consistency of particle distribution is a good thing. Id be guessing the results would be not too dissimilar to what youd get with a dissecting needle, but not as messy!

    One downside I can see at this stage is that while youll probably eliminate voids in the coffee, youll get a moderately high pressure ring towards the bottom centre of the basket where the edge of the tamper has dug in, youll also get a distinctly low pressure area right around the edge of the basket where the tamper hasnt reached, and to be able to skew the tamper it needs to be undersized so when you do your final tamp youll still miss the underpacked edges. Each of these factors can lead to peripheral channelling; all of them in the same basket would certainly heighten the chance of that happening. However, offsetting that is the improved particle distribution within the basket!

    How all these factors work out in practice could be the subject of some interesting experimentation. Its worth mentioning Mal has noted improved results from this method so that certainly is an initial plus in its direction.

    Greg

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 736671736461787879757A140 link=1235434554/9#9 date=1235540890
    One downside I can see at this stage is that while youll probably eliminate voids in the coffee, youll get a moderately high pressure ring towards the bottom centre of the basket where the edge of the tamper has dug in, youll also get a distinctly low pressure area right around the edge of the basket where the tamper hasnt reached, and to be able to skew the tamper it needs to be undersized so when you do your final tamp youll still miss the underpacked edges. Each of these factors can lead to peripheral channelling; all of them in the same basket would certainly heighten the chance of that happening. However, offsetting that is the improved particle distribution within the basket!
    None of this really applies Greg,

    I have worked with Nutating Disc hardware of all different types over the years in many different applications, from flowmeters, pumps to hydraulic motors based upon the principle. What you say is fair enough if the nutating action isnt applied properly, but executed properly this is most definitely NOT the case. Before making any further assumptions I would suggest that you try it. As an aside, I have never, ever experienced even the slightest sign of edge, or any other channelling since adopting the nutating tamp action many, many years ago. I even described it here on CoffeeSnobs not long after first joining for what thats worth.

    Cheers,
    Mal.

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Mal, if you could post up a video of YOUR exact technique, i think it would be awesome

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 607D797C7777120 link=1235434554/11#11 date=1235545879
    Mal, if you could post up a video of YOUR exact technique, i think it would be awesome
    Dont have a suitable camera, sorry :(.

    Its not that difficult to get right you know and doesnt require a lot of dexterity, or I wouldnt be able to do it ;). What you are aiming for basically is to push the grounds ahead of the tamper face as you replicate the nutating action. You dont apply a lot of downforce at this stage, just the weight of the tamper really, as you are not trying to tamp the grounds, just distribute them. I probably do a couple of circuits around the basket in this way, takes about 4 seconds and then I work the grounds level and tamp in one motion. The whole exercise takes about 6-7 seconds, at the most.

    Have seen that video linked to above and from what I can make of it, the chap doing the demo doesnt seem to be replicating what I have described above and so is not a genuine nutating action. Probably doesnt really matter all that much anyway, if what you do works then go for it.

    Mal.

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    I have been doing it the wrong way then Mal...I dosed levelled and tamped with about half pressure then Maltated and then tamped with normal force. So you dose then level by hand (finger) and then Maltate and then level with the action of the Maltate and then tamp evenly and level?

    Cheers

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 62777E6E6279790D0 link=1235434554/13#13 date=1235617457
    I have been doing it the wrong way then Mal...I dosed levelled and tamped with about half pressure then Maltated and then tamped with normal force. *So you dose then level by hand (finger) and then Maltate and then level with the action of the Maltate and then tamp evenly and level?
    More or less Oz...

    I think where it is going wrong with the understanding of what a Nutating Motion is, is the example of a coin/washer wobbling around on its edge that Ive seen described quite a bit. Thats not really what it is at all. A better description is that of a childs spinning top.... As it slows down, it reaches a point where the gyroscopic forces can no longer maintain its axis in the vertical plane due mainly to the forces of gravity. The point of the top (on the floor) becomes stationary and the head-end of the top begins to prescribe an elliptical or circular orbit... It is this "orbit" that is an example of nutating motion.

    As a result, forces are realised at the "point" of the top on the floor that oppose the direction that the head-end of the top is moving. It is these forces that can be utilised to perform work and in the case of using this motion to distribute coffee through and around the basket, we are simulating the action of an actual nutating disc. So, in simple terms, you try and push the coffee grounds ahead of the tamper base in a kind of wave. After you completed a couple of circuits around the basket like this, there wont be any voids remaining or clumps for that matter. As you complete the last circuit you bring the tamper to a perpendicular position which ensures the coffee is level; and then you tamp.

    Ive tried searching the web for something that demonstrates what Im attempting to explain but unfortunately, there doesnt seem to be much around (in laymans language anyway). I spose you could always buy a cheap spinning top and give it a whirl (on your own with the doors closed probably ;)) and hopefully what Im trying to explain will become more obvious. Hope I havent just made the whole thing more confusing for you mate; Ill keep looking around for something that demonstrates it in the mean time.

    Anyway, I wouldnt worry about it too much.... This is just something that I found works for me and never really thought any more about it. If you find that doing something similar does a better job than what youve been using previously then thats great. If you find it easier to stick with what youve been using prior to this, then thats great too. Its not really important I think, what methods you use in your technique, so long as you can apply these methods consistently and that the results at the end are meeting or exceeding your expectations. This is far more important I think..... 8-)

    All the best :)
    Mal.

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 634E4A464B270 link=1235434554/1#1 date=1235478550
    Nope, a nutating tamp would NOT work with a Convex Tamper as the radius of the tamper base would establish a "socket" in the puck after a very short time with the tamper as the "ball", thereby resulting in very little displacement of the grains of coffee.
    Mal, I have to differ on this one - my Espro tamper is convex, and I have experienced/seen/tasted the difference in my pours using the nutate with my naked pf as a guide. I posted this up in another thread http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1231140889#33

    Maybe a flat based tamper nutated is more effective than a convex perhaps?

    Javabeen.

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    i have one of Gregs tampers, a *very tight fit for the double deep basket i use mostly.
    i fill the basket, tap on the bench, over fill, wipe off to a slight hump and put the tamper on top, then basically replicate the *wave like move in the video mentioned above.
    after that i tamp to the second line on the tamper.
    i find this sequence helps me avoid channelling... if i simply *fill, tap, overfill, level and tamp i often get *fast appearing "side-drips" and clear channelling in the puck.
    i didnt know it was called Nutating, but whatever the moniker, it works for me.
    horses for courses :)

    L


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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Thanks very much for that Mal - I think I have a handle on what you mean, having seen the kids play with tops even a few days ago. I will give that a go tomorrow morning!

    Cheers and thanks again for sharing your knowledge :)




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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 73786F787B7C7C77190 link=1235434554/15#15 date=1235645418
    Maybe a flat based tamper nutated is more effective than a convex perhaps?
    Yes mate, definitely much easier with a flat based tamper. Id reckon that the more severe the radius/centre used to form the convex base, the more difficult it would be to avoid the ball/socket effect. Whats important though, is that you have got it working for you and have noticed the difference in the more consistent quality of your shots. Thats what its all about..... 8-)

    Mal.

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 436E6A666B070 link=1235434554/10#10 date=1235543481
    Quote Originally Posted by 736671736461787879757A140 link=1235434554/9#9 date=1235540890
    Anything that improves the consistency of particle distribution is a good thing. Id be guessing the results would be not too dissimilar to what youd get with a dissecting needle, but not as messy!

    One downside I can see at this stage is that while youll probably eliminate voids in the coffee, youll get a moderately high pressure ring towards the bottom centre of the basket where the edge of the tamper has dug in, youll also get a distinctly low pressure area right around the edge of the basket where the tamper hasnt reached, and to be able to skew the tamper it needs to be undersized so when you do your final tamp youll still miss the underpacked edges. Each of these factors can lead to peripheral channelling; all of them in the same basket would certainly heighten the chance of that happening. However, offsetting that is the improved particle distribution within the basket!

    How all these factors work out in practice could be the subject of some interesting experimentation. Its worth mentioning Mal has noted improved results from this method so that certainly is an initial plus in its direction.

    Greg
    None of this really applies Greg,

    I have worked with Nutating Disc hardware of all different types over the years in many different applications, from flowmeters, pumps to hydraulic motors based upon the principle. What you say is fair enough if the nutating action isnt applied properly, but executed properly this is most definitely NOT the case. Before making any further assumptions I would suggest that you try it. As an aside, I have never, ever experienced even the slightest sign of edge, or any other channelling since adopting the nutating tamp action many, many years ago. I even described it here on CoffeeSnobs not long after first joining for what thats worth.

    Cheers,
    Mal.
    Fair call; though I think the language of my post indicated I *hadnt* tried it and was just looking at the theory, and that I felt practical experimentation *would* be a worthy exercise; apologies if that wasnt clear but hopefully it is now. FWIW I did actually give it a try this morning in the Presso which has a slightly loose tamper and a bottomless portafilter, and surprisingly I got central channeling, not peripheral. However I put almost zero relevance on that outcome as it was the first time I tried it and on reflection my technique was probably more like the coin and less like the top, and the top-like motion is less likely to create that high pressure ridge near the centre I was picturing anyway.

    One day it would be nice to sit down with about 5kg of coffee, a bottomless portafilter and a few different tampers and just try all sorts of techniques. Perhaps when I retire... ::)

    Greg

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 7E6B7C7E696C7575747877190 link=1235434554/19#19 date=1235686406
    Fair call; though I think the language of my post indicated I *hadnt* tried it and was just looking at the theory, and that I felt practical experimentation *would* be a worthy exercise; apologies if that wasnt clear but hopefully it is now. FWIW I did actually give it a try this morning in the Presso which has a slightly loose tamper and a bottomless portafilter, and surprisingly I got central channeling, not peripheral. However I put almost zero relevance on that outcome as it was the first time I tried it and on reflection my technique was probably more like the coin and less like the top, and the top-like motion is less likely to create that high pressure ridge near the centre I was picturing anyway.
    Sorry if I came across a bit strong mate, that wasnt my intention. Was just reinforcing what you said about the need to experiment a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7E6B7C7E696C7575747877190 link=1235434554/19#19 date=1235686406
    One day it would be nice to sit down with about 5kg of coffee, a bottomless portafilter and a few different tampers and just try all sorts of techniques. Perhaps when I retire... ::)
    Yeah, I wish too.... Im semi-retired and wouldnt be able to do it currently. Patience is the operative word I guess or better time management if you think along those lines... ;)

    Cheers mate,
    Mal.

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    I Nailed The Nutated Naked

    Hi
    Impressed with this style of tamping especially in the unforgiving naked portafilter. Gave me a consisent pour everytime. Used a flat based aluminium tamp made by David Schomer of espressovivace.com in Seattle.
    Thanks for information
    trying to attach pic but keep getting error message
    [img][/img]


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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Mmmm, nice pour mate..... 8-)

    Wow! That tamper has travelled a lot of miles on its way to you VIA..... Must be a goodn :)

    Mal.

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....


    I have been tamping with the nutating method after reading this thread .

    Using a naked porter filter my shots have improved tremendously

    thanks Mal :D :D

    cheers Gra....

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 1C31353934580 link=1235434554/14#14 date=1235642299
    I spose you could always buy a cheap spinning top and give it a whirl (on your own with the doors closed probably ;))

    Hmmmm...am I the only one who still loves kids toys?

    I have some spinning tops in my cupboard...and yo-yos, gyroscope and embarrasingly many, many more kids toys! (I am 34 with no kids!...parents get away with it by pretending the toys are for the kids ;D)

    Will pull out the tops before my next coffee and try to replicate that movement with my tamper.

    Travis the toyman.


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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Way to go Travis.... ;D

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    One day it would be nice to sit down with about 5kg of coffee, a bottomless portafilter and a few different tampers and just try all sorts of techniques. Perhaps when I retire... ::)

    Greg
    thats alot of coffee to drink, my tamper has no space to do this technique

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 24090D010C600 link=1235434554/20#20 date=1235717198
    Quote Originally Posted by 7E6B7C7E696C7575747877190 link=1235434554/19#19 date=1235686406
    Fair call; though I think the language of my post indicated I *hadnt* tried it and was just looking at the theory, and that I felt practical experimentation *would* be a worthy exercise; apologies if that wasnt clear but hopefully it is now. FWIW I did actually give it a try this morning in the Presso which has a slightly loose tamper and a bottomless portafilter, and surprisingly I got central channeling, not peripheral. However I put almost zero relevance on that outcome as it was the first time I tried it and on reflection my technique was probably more like the coin and less like the top, and the top-like motion is less likely to create that high pressure ridge near the centre I was picturing anyway.
    Sorry if I came across a bit strong mate, that wasnt my intention. Was just reinforcing what you said about the need to experiment a bit.

    Cheers mate,
    Mal.
    No probs at all; that was more for the clarification of anyone else reading it. I think I know you well enough that youre not going to take cheap shots! :)

    I tried this across the weekend, though didnt have opportunity to use the bottomless portafilter so I cant comment on any improvement / decline in shot quality. However I was able to do it with a fitted tamper, surprisingly for me. Perhaps I initially overestimated how much skew is on the tamper with this technique. Will be interesting to experiment further with this! Sounds like youve got a few supporters from those who have trialled it themselves though, which is always the most important test! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    Greg

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Well Greg..... ::)

    The only Tampers Ive ever used have been genuine custom fitted Pullman Tampers and they have always worked just fine ;) 8-)

    Mal.

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Nutating like a top. I assume one starts out with a small orbit of the handle which progressively increases to a larger orbit, or have I got it wrong.

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    No mate, nothing fancy as that.... Work with what ever "orbit" suits you,

    Mal.

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    have started using this with my pullman, and its been helping. Ive been having trouble getting consistency with my latest purchase of Yemen beans, and doing this has helped. Getting some nice pours now and I can appreciate the goodness of the bean (still cant topple the Harrar from its lofty heights, but is a good equal 2nd)

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 362923322F212D2532400 link=1235434554/29#29 date=1235986448
    small orbit of the handle which progressively increases to a larger orbit, or have I got it wrong. *
    Will check but i think the orbit has relevance.
    testing
    deep orbiting now (cause it is late)
    testing tomorrow

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    I think where it is going wrong with the understanding of what a Nutating Motion is, is the example of a coin/washer wobbling around on its edge that Ive seen described quite a bit. Thats not really what it is at all. A better description is that of a childs spinning top.... As it slows down, it reaches a point where the gyroscopic forces can no longer maintain its axis in the vertical plane due mainly to the forces of gravity. The point of the top (on the floor) becomes stationary and the head-end of the top begins to prescribe an elliptical or circular orbit... It is this "orbit" that is an example of nutating motion.
    I am having difficulty with the difference between the wobbling disc and the orbiting top.
    Have seen that video linked to above and from what I can make of it, the chap doing the demo doesnt seem to be replicating what I have described above and so is not a genuine nutating action. Probably doesnt really matter all that much anyway, if what you do works then go for it.
    Perhaps you could describe what is different between your method and the video, maybe everyone else gets it, but at the moment I feel I on the right track but on the wrong tram.
    Any help appreciated.

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 3C232938252B272F384A0 link=1235434554/33#33 date=1236024157
    Perhaps you could describe what is different between your method and the video, maybe everyone else gets it, but at the moment I feel I on the right track but on the wrong tram.
    Im with you Vicroamer, so no youre not the only one. I can envisage both motions, but I just cant figure the difference when it *comes to putting it into practice during the tamping process.

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Well,

    In the video, the person tamping seems to be rolling the edge of the tamper base around the outside of the coffee puck, much in the manner of the described coin wobbling around on the floor. What youre trying to do, (what I try to do at least) is to push a wave of coffee around and through the puck with little weight applied on the tamper. Once a couple of circuits are completed the motion is continued while bringing the tamper to a perpendicular position and then the coffee is tamped according to your usual method and force.

    I really dont know how else to describe it and as I mentioned above, I dont own a video camera so cant show you how I do it. I wouldnt get too hung up on it though, if youve been able to produce consistently good shots up til now, then thats the main thing. Isnt it? Doesnt matter how you dose and distribute the coffee so long as your method works for you. It just so happens I thought to try the nutating disc/wobble plate/swash-plate idea a few years ago and found that it worked for me. Doesnt mean that its right for everybody.... :-?

    Mal.

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    OK
    On the vid it looks to me like first pressure is applied and the puck compressed, then the tamper is rolled around the edge followed by the final tamp.
    Your method is a nutation motion, level the tamper then the final tamp.
    Have I got it right Mal. :)

  38. #38
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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 312E243528262A2235470 link=1235434554/36#36 date=1236068065
    OK
    On the vid it looks to me like first pressure is applied and the puck compressed, then the tamper is rolled around the edge followed by the final tamp.
    Your method is a nutation motion, level the tamper then the final tamp.
    Have I got it right Mal. :)
    Yes mate, that sounds good.... 8-)

    Mal.

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    ;D

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Thanks Mal,
    The bit about the guy in the vid rolling the tamper around the edge finally jiggled the penny free.

    I usually get fairly consistent results the way I dose and tamp now, but every time I hear about someone getting good results using a different method, I get a niggle to try it, because it just might kick my consistancy up that extra few percent *:) Part of what attracts me to the fine art of espresso making *:)

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    I was skeptical that this technique would make much difference. I was way wrong. It has highlighted that my old method was crap. I now tamp with less pressure and a coarser grind, as nutating resulted in almost zero flow through my (single shot) puck. I have found it much easier to achieve a consistent pack once it is nutated.

  42. #42
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 3F342E355A0 link=1235434554/40#40 date=1236140988
    I have found it much easier to achieve a consistent *pack once it is nutated.
    Yep,

    Thats what this method of tamping is all about... Consistency, easily achieved 8-)

    Mal.

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Hmmm, just a thought.

    I gather that improper nutating can result in a cone of highly compressed coffee sitting in the middle of the puck. This makes intuitive sense to me.

    ento - since youre using a single basket, is it possible that your nutating made this dense cone of coffee in the middle of the basket and (because singles only have the holes in the middle of the basket anyway) this caused a complete blockage?


    Dont want to shoot you down directly after youve said youre getting better results! I was more making the observation that nutating in a single basket (intuitively) seems like it would be prone to problems...

    Cheers
    Stuart.

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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    No, not a happening thing. Puck comes out firm with consistent texture, and shows no evidence of channeling, pitting, etc. The nutating is extremely light pressure i.e. as Mal explained, only the weight of the tamper. My single basket is quite large, but I have always struggled to achieve a balance of firm pack + keeping it level, as the grinds in the single tended to skew easily. Nutating seems to even out the distribution in the basket. I have inspected the shot after nutating and before completing the down tamp, and there is no hint of a "dense cone" in the centre. My intuition told me that nutating would make little or no difference, but having tried it, it is without doubt the easiest and most effective improvement I have used in the search for consistancy.

  45. #45
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    Re: Nutating Tamping? What the.....

    Hey ento,

    Thats cool. Glad youre getting good results. Actually, I think your reiteration of the "do it gently" rule made the nutating thing make a lot more sense to me... Ive gotta do more experimentation, although Ill probably wait until my housemates new Pullman arrives!

    Cheers,
    Stuart.

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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    OMG - this thread was so helpful for me. I have been having trouble with channelling. It was always on the perimeter. I tried changing the screen, which seemd to make it a bit better, but not really. Tried pushing down the edges with the tamp, which sometimes helped. Using Nutating technique instantly eliminated the chanelling and improved the shot both from visual through the naked PF, and most importantly a huge difference in taste. Much less bitterness. Also had to coarsen up a fraction, which fits in with everything here. This is a really important technique, particularly for the "part timers" that aren't so expert, and are using perhaps not an ideal basket to tamp match. Thank you big time!!! :-)



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