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Thread: Spring loaded tamper

  1. #1
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    Spring loaded tamper

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hello all, Im making a spring loaded tamper for my Lucy. The idea is to press up until it just starts to move thus giving me a consistent tamp force. I can change the spring to give me the required force. Can anyone see a problem with this idea or have any opinions?

    Thanks, Andrew. :)


  2. #2
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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    Accuracy with up pressure isnt as good so getting a level tamp would be harder, it would also take more effort to get 15kg of force up than down. Great idea though, an adjustable tamper would be a handy thing.

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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    Here is my prototype spring loaded tamper for testing that I made this afternoon at work. It gives me 7kg/15lb of force. I can easily change the spring to increase or decrease the load. Ill start with this amount and see how I go tonight when I try a few shots.

    Andrew. :)


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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    i can now see what u mean, is it awqued to use? maby with a mechanical lever it would get the evenness more consistent?

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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    I just pulled a shot with my double basket. With the current spring in the tamper it returned 60ml in 28sec. Seems about right and tastes OK. Any Opinions?

    Here it is attached to Ms Lucy.



    Andrew. :)

  6. #6
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    Do you use your hand to cup under the PF and push
    or use wrist strength while holding the PF handle
    KK

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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    7kg isnt enough for a good tamp according to current figures. should be 15kg/30lb, so you might need a sturdier spring. Might also pay to ensure it stays level by adding a couple of guiding rods or something on top? tis a good idea though *looks at pullman tamper and wonders where to fit a spring... :-?

  8. #8
    hazchem
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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    Quote Originally Posted by 4B405A48171E2F0 link=1235974123/6#6 date=1236096789
    7kg isnt enough for a good tamp according to current figures. should be 15kg/30lb
    ive read this as a recommended pressure to apply as well, but Ive also seen almost as much discussion that suggests the actual pressure you apply is fairly irrelevant, just so long as you apply a consistent amount of force from shot to shot.

    Personally, Ive found my Espro to be great in teaching me this consistency, this seems like the same kind of thing. Just so long as I tamp consistently I have found it leaves me with (only!!) grind and dose to play with as the main variables in controlling shot times and flavours.

  9. #9
    A_M
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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    Quote Originally Posted by 767F647D767B731E0 link=1235974123/7#7 date=1236106997
    Quote Originally Posted by 4B405A48171E2F0 link=1235974123/6#6 date=1236096789
    7kg isnt enough for a good tamp according to current figures. should be 15kg/30lb
    ive read this as a recommended pressure to apply as well, but Ive also seen almost as much discussion that suggests the actual pressure you apply is fairly irrelevant, just so long as you apply a consistent amount of force from shot to shot.

    Personally, Ive found my Espro to be great in teaching me this consistency, this seems like the same kind of thing. Just so long as I tamp consistently I have found it leaves me with (only!!) grind and dose to play with as the main variables in controlling shot times and flavours.
    While I started off with the Tamp being an exact and measurable value...

    At the end of the day it is more about consistency and being able to repeat what you did....

    Yes the tamp is important.. But playing with the new http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1235434554 method... I have found that I can use much less pressure..

    However it is all a trade off... Grind size / Dosing / Tamp all play an important role in producing that "god"shot. Thus depending on your Equipment / Beans / Environmental conditions etc etc The is no rule that is 100% correct rule... It is a base line and from there you will need to develop what works for you.

  10. #10
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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    Consistency is the main thing, not so much absolute values of pressure or whatever. The original Vanilla tamper we made was designed for those sorts of situations, though without the spring, and consistently tamping upwards with force and keeping it level was always a problem. But if youre finding you can consistently get good results then go for it.

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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    Quote Originally Posted by 57737A7A79794357736F71731C0 link=1235974123/5#5 date=1236083713
    Do you use your hand to cup under the PF and push
    or use wrist strength while holding the PF handle
    KK
    I just use my wrist, its not as awkward as it seems.



    Quote Originally Posted by 7873697B242D1C0 link=1235974123/6#6 date=1236096789
    7kg isnt enough for a good tamp according to current figures. should be 15kg/30lb, so you might need a sturdier spring. Might also pay to ensure it stays level by adding a couple of guiding rods or something on top? tis a good idea though *looks at pullman tamper and wonders where to fit a spring... *:-?
    The 7kg ones did seem a bit weak. I have some 12kg ones to try tonight.

    Andrew. :)

  12. #12
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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    Does the machine move (or lift up) when you up-tamp?

  13. #13
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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    Quote Originally Posted by 253939263D5C0 link=1235974123/11#11 date=1236128878
    Does the machine move (or lift up) when you up-tamp?
    No, The Lucy weighs about 25kg. Think of a Silvia and Rocky in one big box. 8-)

    Andrew. :)

  14. #14
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    Wouldnt 15kg of upward force be enough to lift up one side?

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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    Before I got a "proper tamper" ;) my Solis had a plastic one built in to the left of the PF underneath the machine. The biggest and only real problem I found with it was a tilted tamp. Even with it being lighter than a lucy resting a spare hand on the top of the machine it was possible to get plenty of pressure on the PF.

    If you find it works and are happy then you are in front 8-)

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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    Quote Originally Posted by 003C213A303126333B30540 link=1235974123/13#13 date=1236141592
    Wouldnt 15kg of upward force be enough to lift up one side?
    Yes, it will. I just tried the 12kg spring and it is just border line on lifting one side of the machine. Its also a bit much to do single handed (my wife definitely couldnt do it with one hand). I still got 60ml in 30sec from my double basket though. The puck seemed to be visibly nicely tamped before extraction with this amount of force. With the 7kg force I could still detect some very small gaps in the surface. So Im going to try about 10kg which should give me a nice tamp and not lift the machine. ;)

    As also mentioned above Im having a little trouble with a tilted tamp, but I think with practice (or maybe a circular leveling bubble) I can get this right.


    Andrew. :)

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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    Andrew,

    Sorry to "rain on your parade" but there are all sorts of issues with tamping upwards..... thats why we (Pullman Tampers) have stopped supplying (some time ago) replacement fitted bases for the Quaha and similar models.

    Greg started the business making replacement fitted bases for these machines.... but it is almost impossible to get a consistent upwards tamp... even if you dont totally lift the machine it will skew somewhat as you tamp... or the basket will get skewed....

    PF on a hard surface (so the puck is horizontal in both directions).... with pressure down on the tamper is by far the best and most consistent method....

    To tamp upwards you really need to press down on the machine... whilst you push the PF up... hold it square in two dimensions and apply a consistent force (which at least the spring will help you with)....

    But in reality, although an interesting engineering task, it wont prove to be as successful as a more conventional tamping method....

    Sorry *:(

  18. #18
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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    What you need to add to this is an eccentric/gyroscopic drive to the top of the tamp mechanism, so your shot is nutated. You will then need much less tamp force.

  19. #19
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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    i like it keep up the good work, practice with it and you will get consistent tamps in no time. liking the work you have put into your machine as well, good stuff

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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    Quote Originally Posted by 414D444447477D514C4D40220 link=1235974123/18#18 date=1236237072
    i like it keep up the good work, practice with it and you will get consistent tamps in no time. liking the work you have put into your machine as well, good stuff

    Thanks for the kind words. The downward tamp does seem to be easier to control but Ill see how I go with some practice. If it doesnt work out I have some other ideas to try.



    Quote Originally Posted by 6843544360220 link=1235974123/16#16 date=1236167085
    Andrew,

    Sorry to "rain on your parade" but there are all sorts of issues with tamping upwards..... thats why we (Pullman Tampers) have stopped supplying (some time ago) replacement fitted bases for the Quaha and similar models.

    Greg started the business making replacement fitted bases for these machines.... but it is almost impossible to get a consistent upwards tamp... even if you dont totally lift the machine it will skew somewhat as you tamp... or the basket will get skewed....

    PF on a hard surface (so the puck is horizontal in both directions).... with pressure down on the tamper is by far the best and most consistent method....

    To tamp upwards you really need to press down on the machine... whilst you push the PF up... hold it square in two dimensions and apply a consistent force (which at least the spring will help you with)....

    But in reality, although an interesting engineering task, it wont prove to be as successful as a more conventional tamping method....

    Sorry *:(
    I dont mind some rain, I think were still in a drought here. ;) It really is just and engineering exercise as I like to tinker and have the software and machine tools at work to expand my knowledge. Wait until you see my grinder chute mod.

    Andrew. :)

  21. #21
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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    what if you took the spring method and applied it to a conventional type tamper, of course it wont be conventional any longer will it? I made a timber type lever pull down tamper with a spring in it some time ago, it works very well, i offered to someone for their mum who was having trouble getting enough tamp pressure but they didnt take it, i think he was also going to build her one out of a ammo reloading press, so as you see there are quite a number of works of art in the way of gadgets to be found here, there should be a subject heading somewhere if you look for it... anyway coffee nirvana awaits... ciao for now... Ray. 8-)

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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    I have changed the design and made the mount out of Acetal plastic rather than the aluminium to give a smoother sliding action. The rest of the hardware is stainless steel. I,ll see how it goes.

    Andrew. :)


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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    i am wondering where you work that you can wip something like that up.
    i thought my metal lath was good for a shed but you seem to have it all

  24. #24
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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    Quote Originally Posted by 4C4049494A4A705C41404D2F0 link=1235974123/22#22 date=1236581557
    i am wondering where you work that you can wip something like that up.
    i thought my metal lath was good for a shed but you seem to have it all
    I work in the R&D section as a machinist making prototype parts for a team of mechanical design engineers. Have done it for about 25 years. We have numerous CNC mills & lathes and good CAD/CAM software. So making espresso hardware is very similar to what I do every day, all day.

    By the way I tried the improved version of the tamper tonight and it has a much smoother action with a consistent tamp force.

    Andrew. :)

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    Re: Spring loaded tamper

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    i noticed what a good job you did with the engraving on the end of your pf so i thought it must have been somewhere cool



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