OK, after several weeks of reasearching (& a few tips from the locals at this forum) I think I have narrowed my search down to 2 Auto Machines.
A) The Jura E80
b) The Saeco Incanto Deluxe SBS (S Class)
Both are priced at $1500.
So before I dive right in, I thought Id ask if there is any reason I would choose one of these over the other...
OK, so then which one would be the most reliable? Thats reason enough for me!
Not accounting for individual machines and therefore generally speaking...
The Jura brand by far.
If you have not been able to find anyone in your own area, we sell Jura and will be able to supply.
Looks like a no brainer now :-)
How would you describe the quality of coffee the E80 can produce?
Most domestic automatics that I know of irrespective of brand & model make a very similar brew, which is not the same as commercial quality brew made with a conventional manually operated espresso machine.
Whilst they are "automatic" *you can still fiddle with the grind & dose of grinds.....so they are adjustable to the extent that *you can change the type of brew depending on what you prefer as an individual, and the type of coffee beans you are using. So you can in effect improve, or in fact worsen the quality of "auto" brew by the level of your own ability to fiddle and adjust, just as with a manual machine....but of course the brew will never be the same as that from a manual machine.
If on the other hand if you mean how would I describe the quality of Juras brew compared with the saecos brew, really very similar, again dependent on the above.
We have the Incanto and while its had a few teething problems, were certainly getting a good brew out of it.
Its been back for repairs three times, mostly to do with the calibration of the grinder which was set too fine at the factory. After a couple of cloggings, they now seem to have got it right.
As for pricing, you should be able to do better than $1,500 - even Myer had them cheaper than that.
A cousin of mine has a Solis Palazzo Rapid Steam and when my crappy Saeco Royal Professional dies a death (probably its 4 death ) I am going to get one as well.
Alan Frew gives them a pretty good wrap as well:
Not that Id think to buy one, but Id be really interested in finding out how the innards of the fully automatics work. You know - what happens to the beans once they dissappear into the grinder and how do they end up as an espresso with milk on top magically at the other end :-?.
Are there any web sites?. I cant find any.
I think youd be surprised at how straight forward the brewing process is.
The autos have a small grinder (Jura = conical burr grinders) that grind the coffee and dispense the dose into the brew chamber which at this stage is sitting open waiting for the coffee. *The Juras grind for their set time which is proportional to the dose.
Once the grind is finished the brew unit motor drives a plunger onto the top of the ground coffee. *It continues to drive until it reaches its designed resistance. *This is the tamp of the coffee and is very consistent.
At the top and the bottom of the coffee are the shower screens.
Once tamped the pressure pump starts to pump water into the water heater. *92 degree water starts to come out the other end of the heater and is forced into the ground coffee. *Out the other side of the ground coffee comes the fresh espresso which is piped into the outlet spouts.
Ive got some colour diagrams but not sure if I can post them here.
There are some new improvements coming to the auto world in the next few months from companies like *** & *** and all manufacturers. *The equipment is providing more control of the brewing process ie pre-infusions, pressures, temperatures, grind portioning and espresso outlet apertures all of which affect the brew.
Milk frothing wil have to wait until after Christmas.
I cant speak for the other superautos but on my La Cimbali M-52 the steam is taken off the top of the boiler (it uses the same HX boiler design as all their other espresso machines) and is routed to a specially designed chamber on the disbursing unit where the milk is also injected and foamed as it spins around and drains downward into the cup.
Java "So many toys, so little time." phile
Originally Posted by Metreo link=1133490221/0#7 date=1133784481
Well my Saeco died just after Christmas - and they (Saeco) quoted me around $450 to fix it >:(. - with no prospect of getting it back before mid Feb ::)).
I bit the bullet and bought a Solis Palazzo Rapid Steam, after comparing it to the Incanto (well I wasnt going to buy a Saeco again ::)) .
Had a look at the Delonghi EM3200S and Jura E80, the Solis was cheaper than the Jura but around the same price as the Delonghi.
But it steams the milk beautifully (nice texturing can be achieved) and you can get even better results when you take the froth enhancer off.
Has performed faultlessly since I got it a month ago - and it makes a great espresso shot. Very happy with it.
I have a saeco incanto deluxe and bought it before I knew much about what I wanted in a coffee. What I wanted was a comerical quality short black!- Ive come to realise that auto machines- at least this one - will not do it- even with the best coffee in ideal conditions. I feel frustated that I cant contro the tamp pressure or amount apart from a button that adds a preset amount extra. We have had it back under warrantee twice- once it was for a leaking valve which they knew about and had to change on all the machines- and then another valve or something went. I thought that it would save me time with visitors and it has done that and mostly that is great because most cannot tell the difference between a good brew and a poor one. I want a giotto or silvia which obviously will give me what I WANT! A wonderful short black where I can actually taste the flavour of the beans.
In my opinion forget the auto machines and save for a manual one that actually works... Otherwise save your money and by international roast- (sorry- perhaps I shouldnt have mentioned it here)