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Thread: Giotto Premium

  1. #1
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    Giotto Premium

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    howdy folks,

    my coffee machine search continues.
    over the holidays i went into a place in melb, and was very sold on the brewus... nice double boiler... the only thing is the price... but could get a decent deal with lux grinder etc.

    now, i have the change to buy a 2nd had giotto premium. "has been around a while in a small restaurant, in fantastic mechanical condition with a little body deterioration - $ 1540.00 inc GST"

    what do people think? a bit too risky, or should it be in fine condition.

    any advice would be great.

    thanks,
    dan.

  2. #2
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    Re: Giotto Premium

    Your first step should be to go and take a look at the machine rather than relying on a description.

  3. #3
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    Re: Giotto Premium

    And, if possible.....

    See it in operation with somebody who knows what these particular machines are about and the likely problems that you might encounter..... better safe than sorry. If it turns out to be in as good a condition as you believe from first inspections then it would be a good deal.

    Mal.

  4. #4
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    Re: Giotto Premium

    Sounds expensive to me especailly given its basically a domestic machine which has been used in a commercial environment. I reckon no more than 50% of new street price ($2200??)given its heritage and less than perfect cosmetics.

    Would also depend on warranty and support from vendor, if its from a dealer and theyre going to look after you then it may be getting close.

  5. #5
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    Re: Giotto Premium

    the advice from the seller is, "Ex Restaurant machine has lost some of its shine, no damage just a little dull, done about 1000 cups of coffee, insignificant use for this quality machine.
    Warranty 1 Year"

    it is a dealer, so not a private sale, and there is the option to get some other stuff as well. an ecm grinder, but he has quoted about $700 for it, which is a bit much for me...

    thanks for the answers...

  6. #6
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    Re: Giotto Premium

    1000 cups equates to 10 kilos throughput which is nothing and therefore the machine should have lost absolutely none of its shine.

    In which case I personally would expect the machine to look almost brand new and if not, then you could negotiate the price particularly if the advice is...that it has been "around for a while". What an extra ordinary thing to say when you are trying to sell something off. Kind of sounds like they really dont want to sell it at all!

    A dealer wishing to maximise his return will spend half an hour polishing the machine to bring it up and then say only great things about it so I cant see the point in advising a client there is body damage. You can polish out scratches...and you get get replacement panels if necessary to maximise your return.

    I would be very "suspicious" about a so called "12 month warranty" because if the machine is used then it is not the new machine warranty as offered by ecm, but a private warranty offered by the vendor. There could be some EXclusions because it is used. Get a copy of their warranty statement and see if it sounds fair.

    And when all is said and done, you need to go see it, and see it operating properly, and see that the body damage is really minimal and if you like it, negotiate and be prepared to walk away because this is your best form of "defence" against the salesman that knows you really really want something!

    Regardz,
    FC.

  7. #7
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    Re: Giotto Premium

    My concern would be how well maintained the machine is. When I was looking at buying a machine I initially looked for a second hand HX. After much thought I decided that I could not be sure of how well maintained the machine had been and therefore there was no guarantee I was not buying a lemon. There are risks that the machine may not have been descaled regularly or at all, it may have been modified causing damage etc....

    In otherwords I preferred to buy a lower quality new machine than a high quality used machine from evil bay. At the end of the day its your money, and I feel that $1540.00 is ALOT of money to spend on a used machine and so I would recommend that you not rush in and get burned. Its better to be cheated on price than quality.

  8. #8
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    Re: Giotto Premium

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Sam & Krusty,

    just a couple more quick thoughts:

    If a machine is late model and it is demonstrated in front of you to operate well and as intended by the manufacturer, and it does, you need have not much fear of how "well maintaned" a second hand machine is. There is no maintenance schedule for a cafe owner to get into other than to backflush the groups daily. There is no "descaling" of semi-commercial / commercial heat exchanger machines in real terms, although it is nice if the owner has had a water filter with scale inhibiter fitted AND HAS CHANGED IT AT THE REQUISITE INTERVALS.....WHICH THEY NEVER DO...!!!!!

    The fact remains, commercial / semi-commercial machines are very resilient and "keep on keeping on", for considerable periods with very little fuss.

    In real terms, the absulute / very best / way to know if a machine has not been cared for (even though it works just as intended by the manufacturer) is to just look at it. If it does not look good any more or looks tired or is dented or worn or chipped, thats the very best way of knowing if it has been "well maintained" because if it looks crappy on the oustside you can bet your bottom dollar that no one has been backflushing the groups or just taken reasonable care.

    That said, it is relatively easy to clean up a tired machine as long as has as already been stated, it has been demonstrated to operate well and as intended by the manufacturer in every way.

    If so, there would be little to be concerned about.

    The greatest problems occur when domestic clients bite off more than they can chew by purchasing older, larger, obsolete machines that should have gone to the dump, just because they were cheap. These are the lemons...the ones that have been worn out in cafe use.....rather than when they purchase simpler, smaller, later model machines more commensurate to their requirements at home, that as a result havent had all that much use, and generally only need a bit of a tidy up...as long as the price is right for the individual.

    Regardz,
    FC.



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