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Thread: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

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    Site Sponsor pullman's Avatar
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    Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi guys,

    Its been just on two years now since the Pullman Barista went on sale. Thanks to the tremendous feedback from the prototype testers and a healthy contingent of CSers, the Barista has been extremely well received by both home snobs and coffee professionals throughout Australia and overseas. http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1191997646 has all the details of the pre-release to the Barista for those wanting a trip down memory lane.

    All feedback weve received suggests the extensive work put into the design of the Barista is still hitting the mark, but we havent been resting on our laurels and weve got a number of refinements up our sleeve which were wanting to turn into reality. These wont be wholesale changes, so if you currently have a Barista dont think you need to go out and buy a new one, but we never think the work is done!

    One area well be addressing is adding a new base which will allow us to supply the Barista in sizes down to 49mm - presently we can only go down to 57mm which is by design, to ensure the most ergonomic result possible. But were going to make tooling for a smaller piece of rubber and a base to suit so those with smaller baskets can have the tamper of their choice. There are some other planned revisions too.

    We thought the time was right to put the word out to the CS community and see what else would YOU like to see in a tamper? And if you currently have a Barista, is there anything youd change about it if you could? Your wishlist could include things like euro convex bases, different materials for the bases or handles (brass, bakelite etc etc etc), smaller handles (cue in, scootagal! ;)), different coloured handles, flashing lights, a tamper that plays the 1812 Overture when you hit 30lb...! ::) Or anything else.

    For that matter, if you own a Pullman and there was anything else that bugged you at the time you purchased, lets have that too. Did it take too long to get to you, did you feel the quality didnt match the price, was the website too hard to navigate, did anything else seem unreasonable or unclear?

    I cant guarantee the ideas will get up but I can guarantee Ill give everything careful consideration and discuss it with Robin (JavaB) and provide feedback here where possible.

    FWIW, the current range of Barista (and Deluxe) tampers is below.
    Full details on the Barista as it stands are at http://www.coffeetamper.com.au/products/barista.html, but in brief we already do handles in 10 colours of anodised aluminium, three hardwoods and acetal, and bases in 304 and 316 grade steel. Each tamper comes with three contoured spacers machined in stainless steel.

    So lets have em - the loves, the hates and the want-to-haves and well see what happens when we wave the magic wand!

    Greg


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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Quote Originally Posted by 46435A5A5B5758360 link=1267594047/0#0 date=1267594047
    Barista in sizes down to 49mm
    Excellent :) Suffering with my 55mm deluxe Wenge handled ones instead as I couldnt get Baristas ;)

    For an alternate material no hesitation in suggesting you add the Aluminium Bronze base as an option (providing you can make it work), the deluxe one on my Pavoni is as bright as the day I got it and has only had a wipe with a damp cloth in 8 or 9 months. Not sure how much appeal commercially it might have but a great hard wearing option.

    a happy Pullman addict 8-)

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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    I was going to see if a few more people spoke up before I weighed in, Greg but seeing as they havent, Ill just add to the thread anyway and see if we cant get some more opinions on this as well.

    Recently, I did get a chance to use a Pullman Barista and during that trial, I found myself discussing with the owner of the Barista how tampers seem to be made to fit much larger hands. It got me thinking about how a tamper fits in my hand a bit more at least.

    One thing I noticed about the Barista was the difficulty my palm had in wrapping around the top of the handle as the handle filled so much of my smallish palm.

    Greg, for your info, my palm is 8cm wide. How does that compare to your palm?

    My day to day tamper is a Coffeelab and whilst the top of the tamper is slightly narrower than Gregs barista, it still leaves me wondering if it couldnt be a bit smaller again to fit my hand.

    No offence to you here, Greg...I did certainly admire the craftmanship and quality of the Barista but I did wonder how my hand would feel after a full day of using it.

    Since Ive been on this journey, Ive had my tamping technique adjusted by my industry peers whove given me advice or whom Ive watched at work or who have been training me. Seeing as my left wrist has in the past been prone to suffer a bit of tendonitis, Ive always been fairly careful of how I use my left hand but since doing this full time, have not had any issue with this at all. (Its playing tennis that stuffs up my wrist not tamping! ;D)

    Anyway, Ill be interested to hear from any of our other ladies here who use various tampers and see if they also wonder if theyre hands are too small or the tamper is too big.



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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Thanks guys and thanks to those who have contacted me directly. Some have indicated theyd rather do that than post their wishlist here and thats fine too. My email in that case is greg[at]coffeetamperDOTcomDOTau.

    @BF: Ally Bronze is certainly a consideration but its not costed yet so will need to look at the feasibility of doing that as a production part.

    @Scootagal: My palm is 9cm wide so a little larger than yours. No offence taken at all! There are certainly people who use it day in and day out and love it (it was designed for this sort of work) but I appreciate the feedback regardless.


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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Greg, I have an Espro but I yearn for the true tamp rings.....

    I dont know if you can make the combo happen but I thought I would throw it out there.

    Chris

    Maybe not 1812 overture at pressure, possibly the intro to Stairway to Heaven? ;D

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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Greg,

    Would the be a way to taper the top of the base to the truetamp rings can be seen from above somehow? Currently, I have to bring the portafilter + tamper up to eye-level to judge tamp-leveling.

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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Maybe a "spirit level bubble" in the top. That would solve your problem. ;D

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    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Quote Originally Posted by 5F515C534452533D0 link=1267594047/6#6 date=1267921593
    Maybe a "spirit level bubble" in the top. That would solve your problem. ;D
    That will work
    But only when used in conjunction with a stand that keeps the entire group handle level

    KK

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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A646966716766080 link=1267594047/6#6 date=1267921593
    Maybe a "spirit level bubble" in the top. That would solve your problem. ;D
    Quote Originally Posted by 43676E6E6D6D5743677B6567080 link=1267594047/7#7 date=1267923211
    Quote Originally Posted by 5F515C534452533D0 link=1267594047/6#6 date=1267921593
    Maybe a "spirit level bubble" in the top. That would solve your problem. ;D
    That will work
    But only when used in conjunction with a stand that keeps the entire group handle level

    KK
    I tell ya what, thats not a silly idea at all! [smiley=thumbsup.gif], just one of those small round fisheye size ones, incorporated into the top of the handle! Functional, and i doubt its ever been done!


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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Quote Originally Posted by 7D7A7A7D6B656E610F0 link=1267594047/5#5 date=1267920313
    Greg,

    Would the be a way to taper the top of the base to the truetamp rings can be seen from above somehow? Currently, I have to bring the portafilter + tamper up to eye-level to judge tamp-leveling.

    Yeah I get this, a bit like the sides of a Step Pyramid

    Thats a good idea actually.

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Quote Originally Posted by 25222225333D3639570 link=1267594047/5#5 date=1267920313
    Would the be a way to taper the top of the base to the truetamp rings can be seen from above somehow?
    Quote Originally Posted by 353B36392E3839570 link=1267594047/6#6 date=1267921593
    Maybe a "spirit level bubble" in the top
    And when your tamp isnt level, then what would you do? Twist the entire puck in the basket?

    Perhaps Im the only one that thinks so, but seriously, I think the true tamp rings are absolutely useless and gimmicky, and it would be a huge improvement if they were eliminated from the design.


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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Quote Originally Posted by 7C5D5656514B380 link=1267594047/10#10 date=1267929608
    I think the true tamp rings are absolutely useless and gimmicky, and it would be a huge improvement if they were eliminated from the design.

    I think they are great.....


    Im interested to know why you think removing them would be an improvement on the design den? :-?

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    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    I like the true tamp rings personally.
    I have 2 Pullman Deluxe tampers. One with them and one without. They both fit my baskets the same way and they both now have the same style of handle. I find myself using the tamper with the rings more than the one without.
    Even after all this time, I still find myself checking out the ring level whilst tamping.

    Brett.

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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Quote Originally Posted by 7B5A5151564C3F0 link=1267594047/10#10 date=1267929608
    Perhaps Im the only one that thinks so, but seriously, I think the true tamp rings are absolutely useless and gimmicky, and it would be a huge improvement if they were eliminated from the design.
    Perhaps.

    I quite like them.
    Maybe because they help me.
    Im not as young as I used to be and the visual aid does help.

    Why do you say useless?
    What do you mean by gimmicky?
    How would it be a huge improvement?

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    Senior Member Pavoniboy's Avatar
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    I also like the true tamp rings. I note they have become of less and less use as I refine my tamp but they are what helped me refine my tamp by showing me how far off level I was in the beginning.

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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    I have found the rings helpful in terms of checking the amount and distribution of dose. It may not help much for that pour, but can assist in improving subsequent pours.

    I agree that with more experience, they are referred to less.

    I find the tamper very comfortable and seems to fit my hand well.

    Marie

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1428352E242532272F24400 link=1267594047/13#13 date=1267932191
    Why do you say useless?
    What do you mean by gimmicky?
    How would it be a huge improvement?
    ;D I guess popular vote would dictate they should stay.

    Useless, because if you havent tamped level, the only way to correct it is to remove the grinds and start over. There are already at least two other ways of checking:
    a) Look at the tamper in the basket
    b) Look at the puck inside the basket

    Gimmicky, because the rings dont give you a true tamp. The rings can highlight an error, but do nothing more to improve technique.

    And finally, an improvement because:
    a) Less little grinds to catch inside the rings
    b) Less cost of manufacture
    c) Less relying on the rings and help focus on technique, eg. using thumb and index finger around the rim of the basket

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D21323922400 link=1267594047/15#15 date=1267935247
    I have found the rings helpful in terms of checking the amount and distribution of dose
    Sorry Mary, but I dont believe a tamper teaches dose and distribution. Practice does this. The way I distribute is to dose a mound into the basket, knock down firmly on the side of the counter once (I have an aluminium angle there for the purpose), then tamp.

    Whatever rocks your boat though folks! :)


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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Quote Originally Posted by 54757E7E7963100 link=1267594047/16#16 date=1267937416
    The rings can highlight an error, but do nothing more to improve technique.
    Isnt that the point of the rings.....to highlight the problem.....then you adjust your techique? therefore improved technique is inevitable.....in theory ;D

    Sorry guys.....back OT :P

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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1F3E353532285B0 link=1267594047/16#16 date=1267937416
    Useless, because if you havent tamped level, the only way to correct it is to remove the grinds and start over.
    Just my second crack, but what I do is to place the tamper on the grounds, make sure everythings level, then press down. Sure, with more practise I wouldnt need to do that, but thats how theyre useful for me.

    Much less gimmicky than the Espro click, I reckon!!

    Cheers
    Stu.

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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    I had a laugh.... ;D

    What True-Tamp Rings... :-?

    I cant see em unless Im wearing my reading glasses and I just dont wear them unless Im reading :P. Basically, I just do what Den suggests and I agree also that the rings do cause me some grief from time to time, with collecting coffee grounds and then jamming up in the basket. If I were to order a new Pullman Tamper, I would request the base sans rings.

    Horses for courses, it seems..... ;)

    Mal.

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    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    After reading this thread, I wondered about my tamping style, so just went and made a coffee and paid careful attention to what I was doing.

    I grind, dose, level off with my finger and then put the tamper in. Before pressing down, I use my fingers to do a NWSE on the tamper to make sure its level. I then tamp one, do another quick NWSE on the tamper and then tamp again and polish. Not that Im an expert, but I rarely have any channelling issues with my pucks, so I must be doing something right. I did use my rings when I first received it but quickly moved away from it because the method above seemed to work as well anyway.

    Greg, for my suggestion, I would LOVE to see some sort of rest either come with the Pullman (maybe only for CSers as the professional baristas may not need or want it) or being able to buy an after market rest for it.

    I currently use a spare basket to put mine in, but because of the rounded edges on the basket, its not the best solution (it rocks a bit).

    I started putting mine on the top of my machine until I knocked it off the top one day, didnt manage to catch it, and put a dent in the edge of it from the tiles :-[ so quickly reverted to the counter top and in the basket. I know I could get a Bumper one, but it would be really nice to have one with a Pullman Logo on it to match it up.

    Oh, and a true purple one would be great (my favourite colour!)

    Yeah, I know, Im a woman - aesthetics is everything! ;)

    Scoots, being another female, I havent had a problem with the handle but I think I adjust early on to not putting it in the palm of my hand, but sort of in the meaty part of my thumb on an angle. I took all the spacer rings off mine gradually, to see how each one worked heightwise and came to the conclusion that no spacers worked best. I think my hands are a little big bigger than yours, though.

    Cheers
    Di

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    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    I have been quietly testing and found that a very small change can make a huge difference

    I would like 2 versions of one change to be tested
    See picture

    KK




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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Hey Greg! Good to see the addition of the Barista base to a smaller size tamper. Did i get you thinking of that when i had you do Deluxe for my Dalla Corte?

    RE: True tamp rings?.... I think they are a good idea but not for my application. As Mal states, i am also getting grinds stuck between the rings and the basket which sometimes jams the tamper in the basket due to such a close fit.

    Regardless of this.... I can never see the rings when i have finished tamping due to my deep 54mm baskets.

    As for the Barista range of tampers? I have only used a sample once. Didnt find anything wrong with it to be honest!

    My suggestion would be this....leave the Delux and the Barista range the way they are and start a new range?
    A range that offers gold plated this and diamond crustad that? Copper or bronze bases or even Pirex?
    A "pimp my tamper" ;D :D

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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    By the way, I love my Pullman Tampers. I wouldnt even think about buying any other as I have had nothing but sterling service from both Greg and Robin and of course, the Tampers themselves. Its my problem that I cant see the True-Tamp rings to make better use of them, although the very occasional jamming up in the basket can be a small pain but doesnt really worry me at all.... Asking for suggestions after all ;)

    Mal.

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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Quote Originally Posted by 78415F516B73340 link=1267594047/22#22 date=1269138199
    RE: True tamp rings?.... I think they are a good idea but not for my application. As Mal states, i am also getting grinds stuck between the rings and the basket which sometimes jams the tamper in the basket due to such a close fit.
    I havent had a jam caused by grinds in the rings (touch wood).

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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    How about filling the rings with a black epoxy or something?

    This would make it easier to see and may fix the problems that Dennis and Mal brought up about the jamming.
    Although I think that the jamming has more to do with the tight fit not the rings.
    Has anyone tested this?

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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    You could be on to something there "bassway"... 8-)

    My original Pullman Tamper (pre True-Tamp Rings) is just as tight a fit as those Ive bought since but it never jams up. It may well be that the Rings just happen to be of a dimension that coincides with the grind setting I use and thereby allows the coffee particles to collect there and then interfere with the fit in the basket.

    Im not really all that worried about it though, to the extent that I want to fill the grooves in. Might be something for Greg to experiment with though and see if there is any foundation to the supposition... ;)

    Mal.

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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Hey all,

    I think filling them with something like black epoxy is a great idea. I dont use my rings to see if Ive made a level tamp as much as i do to check my dose. there may be better ways of doing it, but I always find it gives a pretty good prediction on how the pour will be...

    Des

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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    I like bassways idea but I reckon it would add a fair bit of cost.
    I have never had a problem with grinds in the true tamp rings of my Barista tamper jamming the tamper in the basket. I dont really use the rings consciously for achieving a level puck but they sure let me know if I havent followed my usual dosing technique. On balance, Id opt for having them.
    I love my Barista tamper and would not change a thing.
    Well done Greg and Robin.

    Cheers,
    Alan


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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    I took a bit more notice this morning and thought about what I would change.

    The handle is a little too small for me. The shaft is too small.
    More than ok for home use but I was using it day in day out I probably find a wood craftsman to make me a larger handle.
    Still the Pullman Barista is the most comfortable tamper I have come across.

    It did jam on me this morning but it was because I didnt strike off properly.

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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    OK thanks for all that feedback guys, greatly appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4F48484F59575C533D0 link=1267594047/5#5 date=1267920313
    Greg,

    Would the be a way to taper the top of the base to the truetamp rings can be seen from above somehow? Currently, I have to bring the portafilter + tamper up to eye-level to judge tamp-leveling. *
    It could be done, but while this would allow the rings to be seen from above, at that angle you wouldnt be able to run your eye along the rim of the basket and line it up with the truetamp ring. Youd still have to get down to the level of the basket to use them as designed, but because the base would be tapered the ring would be further away from the basket, introducing parallax error and making it a bit more difficult to be accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5F515C534452533D0 link=1267594047/6#6 date=1267921593
    Maybe a "spirit level bubble" in the top. That would solve your problem. Grin
    Interesting idea KK... will give it some thought. One problem would be that your hand would normally be covering that part of the tamper when youre using it but could still have some value.

    Quote Originally Posted by 79585353544E3D0 link=1267594047/10#10 date=1267929608
    Perhaps Im the only one that thinks so, but seriously, I think the true tamp rings are absolutely useless and gimmicky, and it would be a huge improvement if they were eliminated from the design.
    Useless, because if you havent tamped level, the only way to correct it is to remove the grinds and start over.There are already at least two other ways of checking:
    a) Look at the tamper in the basket
    b) Look at the puck inside the basket

    Gimmicky, because the rings dont give you a true tamp.The rings can highlight an error, but do nothing more to improve technique.

    And finally, an improvement because:
    a) Less little grinds to catch inside the rings
    b) Less cost of manufacture
    c) Less relying on the rings and help focus on technique, eg. using thumb and index finger around the rim of the basket
    I think youve misunderstood the purpose of the rings Den. As we explain on the website and in the flyer that goes out with each tamper, the rings are there to show you quickly and easily when the tamp is off-centre so you can correct your technique for next time. They dont attempt to correct a flawed technique but to highlight a flawed technique so the operator can make the necessary changes.

    If the purpose of the rings is correctly understood there shouldnt be any relying on the rings rather than technique because they dont actively correct a flawed tamp - they in fact lead you to focus on technique by highlighting flaws to work on. There are other ways of achieving what the rings do but the rings make it quicker and simpler which Im sure everyone agrees is something worth maintaining.


    Quote Originally Posted by 755244564E3D0 link=1267594047/20#20 date=1269128403
    Greg, for my suggestion, I would LOVE to see some sort of rest either come with the Pullman (maybe only for CSers as the professional baristas may not need or want it) or being able to buy an after market rest for it.

    I currently use a spare basket to put mine in, but because of the rounded edges on the basket, its not the best solution (it rocks a bit).
    Hehe... Di this has been on my to do list for almost as long as Ive been making tampers! I got fairly well through the design stage about 12 months ago but something else always seems to come along. Thanks for the reminder though, Ill dust them off and get back to making a prototype in due course ::).

    Quote Originally Posted by 76525B5B58586276524E50523D0 link=1267594047/21#21 date=1269130025
    I have been quietly testing and found that a very small change can make a huge difference

    I would like 2 versions of one change to be tested *
    Interesting KK... whats the idea behind the revised profile? I can see what youre asking for but am not entirely sure for what purpose?

    Quote Originally Posted by 5F5C4E4E4A5C443D0 link=1267594047/25#25 date=1269248705
    How about filling the rings with a black epoxy or something?

    This would make it easier to see and may fix the problems that Dennis and Mal brought up about the jamming.
    Although I think that the jamming has more to do with the tight fit not the rings.
    Has anyone tested this? *
    Great idea bassway *8-) First up as mentioned earlier the rings dont contribute to any jamming - thats an offline tamp; and the rings shouldnt fill with coffee due to the profile of the rings.

    The hurdles with this idea would be getting something thats going to be easy to apply and isnt going to chip out, given its going to be trying to stick to a very smooth surface. There are other ways of achieving a similar visual result without those problems but arent as simple to implement. Will certainly ponder this one though...

  32. #32
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Quote Originally Posted by 425740425550494948444B250 link=1267594047/30#30 date=1269648971
    moto coffee wrote on 07. Mar 2010 at 11:26:
    Maybe a "spirit level bubble" in the top. That would solve your problem. Grin


    Interesting idea KK... will give it some thought. One problem would be that your hand would normally be covering that part of the tamper when youre using it but could still have some value.
    Moto Coffee asked about this Greg not me
    But I was thinking the same as you and answered this
    Quote Originally Posted by 6E4A434340407A6E4A56484A250 link=1267594047/7#7 date=1267923211
    moto coffee wrote on 07. Mar 2010 at 11:26:
    Maybe a "spirit level bubble" in the top. That would solve your problem. Grin


    That will work
    But only when used in conjunction with a stand that keeps the entire group handle level
    Quote Originally Posted by 425740425550494948444B250 link=1267594047/30#30 date=1269648971
    Koffee Kosmo wrote on 21. Mar 2010 at 11:07:
    I have been quietly testing and found that a very small change can make a huge difference

    I would like 2 versions of one change to be tested


    Interesting KK... whats the idea behind the revised profile? I can see what youre asking for but am not entirely sure for what purpose?
    Simply feels better on the fingertips & that results to better control when applying downward pressure on a square or rounded profile

    KK

  33. #33
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Quote Originally Posted by 796C7B796E6B7272737F701E0 link=1267594047/30#30 date=1269648971
    How about filling the rings with a black epoxy or something?

    This would make it easier to see and may fix the problems that Dennis and Mal brought up about the jamming.
    Although I think that the jamming has more to do with the tight fit not the rings.
    Has anyone tested this?

    Great idea bassway *8-) First up as mentioned earlier the rings dont contribute to any jamming - thats an offline tamp; and the rings shouldnt fill with coffee due to the profile of the rings.
    I can send you a photo if you like Greg..... With mine, they do fill up and the tamper then tends to get stuck in the basket. This is despite tamping perpendicularly. Its not a big deal really but it is something that causes an "issue" with an otherwise perfect tool.....

    Mal.

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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Quote Originally Posted by 54797D717C100 link=1267594047/32#32 date=1269694137
    With mine, they do fill up and the tamper then tends to get stuck in the basket
    with mine i get an ever so "slight" jamming, but for me, i put this down to stuffing something that fits almost perfectly and the fine coffee gets in there and it sticks a bit, perfectly natural with something that is custom fit to something and then you introduce another variable.....coffee. For me a slight tap on the side of the pf drops this coffee back into the puck and i tamp again.......

    Mal......im in no way whatsoever discounting your problem, this is my circumstance ;)

    cheers
    warren

  35. #35
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1C183E2727223D2A254B0 link=1267594047/33#33 date=1269726002
    with mine i get an ever so "slight" jamming, but for me, i put this down to stuffing something that fits almost perfectly and the fine coffee gets in there and it sticks a bit, perfectly natural with something that is custom fit to something and then you introduce another variable.....coffee. For me a slight tap on the side of the pf drops this coffee back into the puck and i tamp again.......
    For me this would indicate design fault as an engineer. It would then tell me the tolerance of machining for each tamper and matched basket is too tight. I think this is important feedback to give and not brush it off as something "natural" for a custom fit tamper.

    A huge reason in jamming though has to do with tamping level. With a highly fitted tamper any unlevel tamp will inevitably lead to getting stuck more frequently.

  36. #36
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Quote Originally Posted by 1A383E2522283E4D0 link=1267594047/34#34 date=1269788901
    Quote Originally Posted by 1C183E2727223D2A254B0 link=1267594047/33#33 date=1269726002
    with mine i get an ever so "slight" jamming, but for me, i put this down to stuffing something that fits almost perfectly and the fine coffee gets in there and it sticks a bit, perfectly natural with something that is custom fit to something and then you introduce another variable.....coffee. For me a slight tap on the side of the pf drops this coffee back into the puck and i tamp again.......
    For me this would indicate design fault as an engineer. It would then tell me the tolerance of machining for each tamper and matched basket is too tight. I think this is important feedback to give and not brush it off as something "natural" for a custom fit tamper.

    A huge reason in jamming though has to do with tamping level. With a highly fitted tamper any unlevel tamp will inevitably lead to getting stuck more frequently.
    Ok, David......i wasnt complaining, at all, not at all, ever.......i love my pullman and wouldnt one single characteristic, it is perfection.

    I get a perfectly level tamp right to the very edge of the puck everytime, trust me, i dont have a problem, just trying to share my routine....

    cheers
    sorry if my previous post was confusing ;)
    warren

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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    The tamper shouldnt jam if used properly. Theres a slight misconception that custom machined or perfect fit means no clearance which isnt the case. There IS a certain amount of clearance we employ which allows for proper operation without jamming and when we have the choice we manufacture accordingly. Unfortunately there are times when we dont know - perhaps baskets werent purchased or supplied by the customer, or they changed their baskets, or purchased an oversized unit from a reseller who then sold it without a matched basket, or bought one second-hand etc etc etc. There are certainly cases when we dont have control over the matching of basket to tamper but when we do we manufacture accordingly. And if we didnt you should rightly complain to us :)

    @Mal: case in point, Id like to ideally get that base back and see whats going on.

  38. #38
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    With regards to jambing
    Now that I use a BZ40 and a new set of group handles
    I have observed a slightly tighter fit to that of the Galatea group handles

    I have tested & experimented on both and have surmised that its the springs themselves that cause this

    The BZ40 gp springs are stronger and apply a little more pressure on the sides of the basket & in turn will make the gap smaller


    So as in my case if one was to change machines or group handles or to stronger springs it may effect the side clearance

    KK

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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Quote Originally Posted by 5045525047425B5B5A5659370 link=1267594047/36#36 date=1269819928
    There IS a certain amount of clearance we employ which allows for proper operation without jamming and when we have the choice we manufacture accordingly. *
    Of course there is but if there is jamming due to coffee being stuck in the rings (i.e. the tamp is 100% perfectly level) then the clearance chosen should be greater to allow for this or a redesign of the rings which may accumulate grounds causing the jamming.

  40. #40
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Quote Originally Posted by 4062647F787264170 link=1267594047/38#38 date=1269842640
    Quote Originally Posted by 5045525047425B5B5A5659370 link=1267594047/36#36 date=1269819928
    There IS a certain amount of clearance we employ which allows for proper operation without jamming and when we have the choice we manufacture accordingly. *
    Of course there is but if there is jamming not due to coffee being stuck in the rings (i.e. the tamp is 100% perfectly level) then the clearance chosen should be greater to allow for this or a redesign of the rings which may accumulate grounds causing the jamming.
    If you sold me an Espro for a 58mm basket, would it be a fault with your engineering if it didnt work in a 57mm basket? Or if I didnt tell you what basket I had and found it didnt fit? Or told you I had a xmm basket but in fact it was something else? Or if it worked with my first basket but then I changed it and it didnt fit my new basket?

    My point is the engineering has been done so tampers fit without jamming when we can control the clearance. When we cant we explain the risks to the customer and try to err on the side of safety but ultimately its their choice. If the tamper jams due to someone wanting to do it their own way or some other circumstance after weve sold the tamper theres not a lot we can do to prevent that. If youre going to blame such circumstances on poor engineering then every tamper would be 25mm.

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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Fair point Greg. We know the engineering is fine and clearance is perfect and works when the user tamps perfectly level. What I wanted to highlight is that if there is an accumulation of grinds within the rings causing the tamper to get stuck then this should be addressed.

    If only we could control the tolerances of manufacturing for baskets, life would be grand!

  42. #42
    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    I have a Pullman and a matching Synesso basket acquired at the same time to fit and have never experienced jamming once...there is a few mm clearance right the way around so that its loose enough to not jam even if there are grinds up the side of the basket, which there is more than not. Im not a trained barister and would hazard to guess that my tamps are never perfectly level.

    I think what Greg is saying is that the tamper is the right diameter for the basket it is to fit in, there should not be any jamming whatsoever and it allows for a slight uneven tamp. If an uneven tamp is an issue, then refer to the rings.

    Cheers
    Di


  43. #43
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Hi Di

    I think Greg would be horrified if you had a few mm clearance right the way around.

    When I used to use the Barista (never happened with the Deluxe) whenever it would jam it would only ever happen when I was removing it from the basket. I suspect this was mainly because I wouldnt take it out as precisely as it would go in. Whenever this would happen I would occasionally find grinds in the rings.

    It used to frustrate me no end - but my circumstances were and remain different to a home user.

  44. #44
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Quote Originally Posted by 77565D5D5A40330 link=1267594047/42#42 date=1269846420
    I think Greg would be horrified if you had a few mm clearance right the way around.
    :o :o Too right Den! A few tenths would be more like it. Its pretty difficult to estimate how much clearance is there just by looking because lots of different angles and shadows make it pretty deceiving. But suffice to say a matched tamper and basket would have comfortably comfortably less than 1mm of difference between the diameter of basket and tamper.

  45. #45
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    As I pointed out in a couple of instances above, the jamming/sticking phenomenon isnt a deal-breaker for me and not enough of an issue to return the base and baskets to Greg for further machining if deemed necessary.

    I do however, always take care to ensure that my tamping technique is correct. This "jamming" business has never happened with any of my previous Pullman Tampers and when I swap the baskets and tamper over to the ones from my Bezzera, there isnt a hint of jamming... That base with those baskets work perfectly each and every time. Swap back to the baskets and Tamper bought for the DJE and the tamper immediately jams and sticks..... It is nothing more than a minor annoyance and really, not worth sending back to Greg in my opinion.

    Mal.

  46. #46
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Ah I understand now, must be a case of one basket being a few tenths of a millimetre smaller than one of the others. As David said, "If only we could control the tolerances of manufacturing for baskets, life would be grand!" As far as getting it back Mal, thats mainly if the rings are clogging as that shouldnt happen. Email me if you want to do something with that.

  47. #47
    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Eee - okay, I had Pete eyeball it and he thinks theres about 0.5mm clearance all around it... It is certainly a better fit than the Sunbeam one which is what I used before I bought my Pullman (sold the Sunbeam, its baskets and its Tamper and greedily kept the Synesso and Pullman for my Maver).

    Oh well, have been extremely happy with it regardless... :)


  48. #48
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Quote Originally Posted by 2633242631342D2D2C202F410 link=1267594047/45#45 date=1269859845
    Ah I understand now, must be a case of one basket being a few tenths of a millimetre smaller than one of the others. As David said, "If only we could control the tolerances of manufacturing for baskets, life would be grand!" As far as getting it back Mal, thats mainly if the rings are clogging as that shouldnt happen. Email me if you want to do something with that.
    Thanks Greg, appreciate the offer but its not a biggie and not worth the effort to be honest. Its not as if Im serving behind a busy coffee bar all day, just a couple of Doubles here and there throughout the day ;)

    Mal.

  49. #49
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    The Jamming thing on custom close fitted is a minor pain, on 2 out of the 3 Izzo double baskets the fit is perfect with the two tampers I had made but a third just sticks a touch so it is possible that basket is out of round. This is my fault as I only sent Robin one of the three to size the Tampers from.

    Incidently the true tamp rings on Izzo/San Marco baskets are burried deep and out of sight (so of no use), correct tamp level is mid way up the bevel on the top of the Tampers on the Deluxe.

    Going to order a couple more baskets from Coffee Parts along with a naked triple and some other spares. If needs be a slight skim off the sides of the Tampers will be in order but that can be done locally if it comes to that.

    One of the benifits of close fitted Tampers are that the girls I have working for me know when they have tamped crooked as the tamper get jammed in the basket on the way out so they know to fix it and re tamp ::) Apart from lack of attention the main reason for crooked tamping is the bench is to tall or they are just to short (should see one of them in particular reaching for the lever on the Izzo) *;D

  50. #50
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    Re: Pullman Tampers - refinement time!

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Hi Greg,

    Just wanted to say how much I enjoy using your tampers. Ive only ever used cheap nasty tampers and it was such a pleasure to use a Pullman tamper for a change.

    Its also great that youre coming to a site such as CS to refine your craftmanship.

    Keep up the good work! :) (cheezy, i know)



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