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Thread: Getting naked for Xmas

  1. #1
    borat123
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    Getting naked for Xmas

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Santa just bought me a bottomless pf for the M27.

    Bit of an ordinary fit, *even after fitting much tighter than normal there is still a bit of leak out of the back edge..... * I hear its a common problem. *The weight is also much much less than usual ( I guess partly because theres no bottom on it..).

    With a doser grinder it also requires a bit more effort to get the grounds distributed centrally, as theres no spout to assist with lining it up correctly.

    Anyway, *its been interesting to note the difference between dosing, tamp and distribution, and the effect with the bottomless pf. I notice theres also a lot more crema (shorter lasting), than with the standard pf.

    Heres a vid I found (not mine) that I thought might be a good example to aim for. * Not quite there yet.. * Ill post mine when I manage to get it looking better.

    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6-BPQLOafo&feature=related[/media]

  2. #2
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    Re: Getting naked for Xmas

    Good shot speed, probably a little quicker than what i enjoy but still good.

    Heres mine, maybe a bit too slow on this one:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voaPrQ-XhPg

  3. #3
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    Re: Getting naked for Xmas

    With the bottomless portafilters - are E61 handles compatible with Silvias?

    I have a mate who has an E61 machine - bought it ex demo from one of the sponsors on here up in Brisbane, but now that hes switched jobs and Ive moved down the other end of town, thought it would be worth asking chances of compatibility prior to going through the logistical fun and games of borrowing it ;).

    M

  4. #4
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    Re: Getting naked for Xmas

    I noticed that with both those videos, the extraction seemed to begin from the perimeter of the basket?
    Im quite new to recognising bottomless extractions, so Im wondering is that an indication of side channeling?

  5. #5
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    Re: Getting naked for Xmas

    Quote Originally Posted by 3A3129233F3E3C353F27500 link=1292112777/3#3 date=1296458577
    I noticed that with both those videos, the extraction seemed to begin from the perimeter of the basket?
    Im quite new to recognising bottomless extractions, so Im wondering is that an indication of side channeling?
    From what I understand (through reading and not having one) yes.
    Theres also a bit of stream dancing in the first one. In the second it seemed like the cone took a while to form but oh my... how thick the shot looked!

  6. #6
    A_M
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    Re: Getting naked for Xmas

    Quote Originally Posted by 58574F5E4F4A4F2E0 link=1292112777/4#4 date=1296482004
    Quote Originally Posted by 3A3129233F3E3C353F27500 link=1292112777/3#3 date=1296458577
    I noticed that with both those videos, the extraction seemed to begin from the perimeter of the basket?
    Im quite new to recognising bottomless extractions, so Im wondering is that an indication of side channeling?
    From what I understand (through reading and not having one) yes.
    Theres also a bit of stream dancing in the first one. In the second it seemed like the cone took a while to form but oh my... how thick the shot looked!
    Remember it is whats in the cup that counts!!!! *

    You can become too Anal and thus loose the joy of coffee and its processes. *While some minor imperfections may have been present, I did not see any thing that would cause me to shudder.... *As to the outer edge... A common find and I believe some what to do with the Quality of your Tamp fit and the Shape / Profile of the basket amongst a host of other things that could be involved. . * Thus something to be aware of but not worth stressing over. *

    Remember without the nakid *;D group it would have looked and tasted GREAT!!!!

    To Quote another...


    " Letting go of chasing perfection is easier said than done. After all, how many of us remember all too well the familiar parental voice, suggesting that "we can surely do better"...? For those, who were lucky enough to be accepted by their parents just the way they were, there came other "high expectation groups": our teachers, the peers, later the colleagues, the bosses, the partners.

    Oh yes, the pressure to always "do our best" is on practically our whole life.

    But there is a difference. While always trying to be better and striving for improvement is one thing, trying to always be perfect is yet another.

    You can recognize the difference easily: striving to do better brings you joy; harnessing your perfection brings you stress."






  7. #7
    Senior Member GrahamK's Avatar
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    Re: Getting naked for Xmas

    What AM has
    Quote Originally Posted by 76595052457A56595650525A525943370 link=1292112777/5#5 date=1296507869
    But there is a difference. While always trying to be better and striving for improvement is one thing, trying to always be perfect is yet another.
    I have seen similiar in some fields where there is a focus on "Best Practice". "Continuous Improvement" is sometimes mistakenly refered to rather than "Continual Improvement". Sounds like splitting hairs, but Continuous indicates that you should always be improving regardless (e.g perfection), wheris Continual refers to improving to the point where its fit and effective for purpose. Its also continual from then on to maintain it at that level and not let it slip or due to new needs, but not improving just for the sake of it, which is often some exercise in Validity (often academic or peer pressure focused), rather than practical and pragmatic Value.

    Sorry if you nodded off during that........ [smiley=rolleyes.gif]

    GrahamK

  8. #8
    A_M
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    Re: Getting naked for Xmas

    Quote Originally Posted by 4B7E6D646D61470C0 link=1292112777/6#6 date=1296518124
    What AM has
    Quote Originally Posted by 76595052457A56595650525A525943370 link=1292112777/5#5 date=1296507869
    But there is a difference. While always trying to be better and striving for improvement is one thing, trying to always be perfect is yet another.
    I have seen similiar in some fields where there is a focus on "Best Practice". "Continuous Improvement" is sometimes mistakenly refered to rather than "Continual Improvement". Sounds like splitting hairs, but Continuous indicates that you should always be improving regardless (e.g perfection), wheris Continual refers to improving to the point where its fit and effective for purpose. Its also continual from then on to maintain it at that level and not let it slip or due to new needs, but not improving just for the sake of it, which is often some exercise in Validity (often academic or peer pressure focused), rather than practical and pragmatic Value.

    Sorry if you nodded off during that........ [smiley=rolleyes.gif]

    GrahamK
    If I can take the liberty - I Have: I think that TG and I understand you 100%

  9. #9
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Getting naked for Xmas

    Quote Originally Posted by 012E2725320D212E2127252D252E34400 link=1292112777/7#7 date=1296518595
    I think that TG and I understand you 100%
    99%
    Im a tough marker.

  10. #10
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Re: Getting naked for Xmas

    I have just put aside my naked handle and gone back to my double spout handle.

    I have been seeing evidence of channelling and despite changing grind and tamping I hadnt been able to eliminate it. I went back to my double (with a different basket) and am pouring 60mls in 30 seconds with good crema, colour and taste. I am much happier 8-)

    The naked was reducing my enjoyment of the coffee :(

  11. #11
    borat123
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    Re: Getting naked for Xmas

    Im still using mine.... Its very easy to see a good distribution from an uneven one.

    All of mine start at the edge, and if the distribution is right, converge in the centre and stay there.

    Looking at the puck afterward, I cant see any evidence of channeling, and the shot tasted great.

    Anyone have a vid of an naked extraction where it doesnt start from the outside edge first?


  12. #12
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    Re: Getting naked for Xmas

    I love these videos; the sight of the beautiful brownish liquid converging at the centre is pure eye candy.

    There are two comments Id like to one: firstly, the timer on the first one has me intrigued. There seems to be a "dwell time" of about 9 seconds which apparently is incorporated into the overall timing of the shot. I start my count from the time the liquid appears, not the dwell time. If my approach is wrong then my shots run for about 35 seconds, with a dwell of about 7-8 seconds an a run of about 27 seconds. But my coffee tastes great and blonding only starts to become prevalent at around 27 seconds. My question is: does the shot standard of 30 mls in 30 seconds include dwell time?

    Secondly, after using a nakie for some weeks now, I have presumed that the edge start to the shot run is a universal phenomenon and that we just dont see it with a dual-spout portafilter. In preparing the spread of grind just before I use the tamper, I screed the grind from side to side in an effort to make sure the edge is no less packed than the centre precisely to minimise side channeling. I wonder how others ensure that the ground coffee surface in your basked has the same tension & density right up to the perimeter of the basket?

  13. #13
    A_M
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    Re: Getting naked for Xmas

    Quote Originally Posted by 647F757E776472777A777477160 link=1292112777/11#11 date=1301617168
    I start my count from the time the liquid appears
    Look around and you will see that it has been disscussed and posted many times before.

    It is about contact time between water and bean.* Thus from the moment you hit the switch / small lever etc.

    Some minor discussion as to pre infusion, but I always count it.

    Thus shot time is from starting the process to the end.* Switch on / Switch off (remove cup).

    Simple and all are then on the same page.

    See this post for a link to even more confusing views.

    Looks are one thing BUT how does the cup taste ?

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1300572307/8#8

  14. #14
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Getting naked for Xmas

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by 53484249405345404D404340210 link=1292112777/11#11 date=1301617168
    My question is: does the shot standard of 30 mls in 30 seconds include dwell time?
    As far as Im concerned, yes.
    Ive been told to count the "dwell" time by people that are very well respected in the coffee game and my taste buds, like yours, bear that out.

    8 sec dwell seems to be a good average.
    A lot less or a lot more indicates a problem for me.

    Your 35 seconds is within the ball park; remember 30 in 30 is a guide.

    Do you think if you made your grind courser or dosed lower, in order to achieve 30mls in 30seconds with zero dwell time, that youd like the taste?

    Quote Originally Posted by 23383239302335303D303330510 link=1292112777/11#11 date=1301617168
    I wonder how others ensure that the ground coffee surface in your basked has the same tension & density right up to the perimeter of the basket?
    I used to use a credit card and now use Scotty Callahans tools but most baristas use their finger.



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