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Thread: what a difference a basket makes!

  1. #1
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    what a difference a basket makes!

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I knew this already in the sense that Id heard someone say it, but I was still surprised! With this new(ly modified) basket the puck was not sloppy, the machine poured better (higher pressure but didnt choke) and the crema was thicker and darker.

    I just finished removing the bottom (not so neatly) from my spare dual wall basket. Unlike the krups basket which has few, large holes and is tapered toward the bottom, the Breville basket has more, finer holes, and is plain cylindrical all the way.

    I ground to the same spot on the grinder and it was too gushy, although some crema. At this spot with the krups I have to be careful not to tamp too hard or Ill block the machine.

    I wound it up a notch and probably overdosed so the next one blocked up. The third one was much better - this is what I got in about 20s:


    Youll notice Im using a bottomless pf (thanks to the PIF forum) which produces a bit of splatter since it doesnt fit as well as the original. Also, the crema was much darker than the photo shows. It was about 95% crema to start but of course settled to what you see in the photo.

    I couldnt continue since it was almost midnight, but the results are better than I was getting yesterday. The only thing is the crema tastes not too bad (slightly bitter?) but the black coffee itself is much more sour/bitter - maybe the water is getting cold toward the end of the extraction?

    Just thought Id share :)

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    Re: what a difference a basket makes!

    The crema is a lot thicker than I thought - I used to break through the crema quickly when adding milk whereas now I have a nice thick layer right to the top of the cup :) Much better for my bad art attempts!

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    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: what a difference a basket makes!

    If its spattering, that could be an indication of channelling. Try the Weiss Distribution Technique and see if that eliminates it.

    The crema in the pic also looks a bit pale to me. A slower pull would probably tidy things up too, 20 sec. is fast for the volume.

    When you get it all right, the taste is incredible!

    Greg

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    Re: what a difference a basket makes!

    Nice one iaindb. going naked is good fun eh ;) I found it really helps to problem solve. I was getting heaps of early blonding, borrowed a naked from maheel and now Im getting more consistant shots without the blonding. Im only pouring about 40-50ml though.

    What sort of volume are you getting? I havent used a machine like yours, Im assuming its got a 15 bar pump. You might have to grind finer, tamp a bit harder with the modified basket?

    I noticed you said it would block up the machine. Does nothing come out after 10 secs or so?

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    Re: what a difference a basket makes!

    Quote Originally Posted by 5C697E7C4C7469767A777F1B0 link=1293896502/2#2 date=1294225873
    If its spattering, that could be an indication of channelling. Try the Weiss Distribution Technique and see if that eliminates it.
    Interesting, more to learn :) Ill try that out pronto!

    The crema in the pic also looks a bit pale to me. A slower pull would probably tidy things up too, 20 sec. is fast for the volume.
    yes, it is quite a bit darker (more dark chocolatie in reality) - something to do with the camera I think. Its a fine line, much past 20s and it starts to choke. This was a double though, so I was aiming for 60mL.

    When you get it all right, the taste is incredible!
    so these sour flavours Im getting should go if I taste it black with no sugar? That would be nice!

    Quote Originally Posted by 577A787E7372761B0 link=1293896502/3#3 date=1294272979
    Im assuming its got a 15 bar pump.You might have to grind finer, tamp a bit harder with the modified basket?
    It says 15 bar, but either it isnt capable of that or my pressure is way too high, however Im close to 60mL/30s doubles so it must be the former.

    I noticed you said it would block up the machine.Does nothing come out after 10 secs or so?
    When it "blocks up" the lights dim and it sounds like its sick, and usually nothing comes out. Sometimes a drop a second. Theres no OPV in this one. It does have a pressure guage but no numbers, so its only good for relative measurements.

    On a usual pour it takes 4-5s for the flow to start.

    thanks :)

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    Re: what a difference a basket makes!

    I just ran a few "test" shots with the naked pf - one the way Ive been doing it, one using WDT, and the last improving the funnel and WDT a bit. The splattering is most likely coming from the bottom (as Greg said) not escaping over the sides as I thought.

    On the final shot I eliminated the splatter at the start, but about half way though it started splattering. It could be because some of the holes are still covered by the lip of the old bottom - perhaps I need to grind it back another mm.

    The shot looks better and is closer to 60mL in 30s now - it starts with a slow beading all over the bottom of the basket, then continues in one nice stream. Its dark to start with, then I see some dark and not-so-dark streaks (is this good?). The crema is still a dark-chocolate colour and very strong (thick layer hangs on an upside-down spoon) but about the same amount as before. Perhaps because the last half is still channelling... It may have tasted slightly better but its hard to say being a different day. And the puck was not sloppy and held its shape as I knocked it out.

    Well, I only did 3 shots so Ill try again next time. I got the video camera out but the battery was flat ::)

    thanks :)

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    Re: what a difference a basket makes!

    iaindb, I used this for some good info.

    http://www.home-barista.com/naked-extraction.html

    Over on the right there is a list of contents, about 4 pages I think. *The best of the lot for info is this one http://www.home-barista.com/naked-extraction-common-problems.html which shows common problems with piccies. *Always a help having piccies.

    Just dont get to worried about getting it 100% perfect. *Remember its whats in the cup that counts :)

    Also with your nice thick creme that your getting, try swirling the cup a bit before pouring your milk. It will help the milk punch through for your latte art.

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    Re: what a difference a basket makes!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6F4240464B4A4E230 link=1293896502/6#6 date=1294298891
    Just dont get to worried about getting it 100% perfect.Remember its whats in the cup that counts :)
    unfortunately, its still better than the cafe but I have lots of improvement to make. In fact, my bottomless pours are sometimes like the "system meltdown" shot :-[

    I dont know if the pressure is too high since I dont have numbers on my gage. Maybe Ill try a bit courser, and stop banging the pf against the bench to settle the grinds ::) Im going to make a better funnel now so I can stir it better than last time... Its amazing that Im still finding so much to learn this far into it!

    thanks!

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    Re: what a difference a basket makes!

    OK, I made a better funnel (out of an old Glorias Jeans cup), I got a better pin (fits right to the bottom) and I stirred every bit of grind.

    It was better - nice colours - but about half way through it starting a barber shop twirl (never seen that before!), then meltdown again.

    And Im still getting some sort of bitterness or sourness or acidity in the liquid (crema tastes OK). Im using Andys espresso wow, but it is aging a bit now. New browns on the way.

    ciao,

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    Re: what a difference a basket makes!

    The meltdown sounds like channeling. Had the same thing happen to me today. Took ages to clean up the mess!!! I seem to have to updose this beastie to get her pouring right. Got a few theories but I need to borrow a stock 58mm tamper from somewhere.

    Does ur puck have any holes in it?

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    Re: what a difference a basket makes!

    yes Im pretty sure its channeling. I have to get a better tamper (asked for one for christmas but didnt get it!).

    The puck doesnt have any visible signs of distress, except for an even grid that lines up with the basket holes.

  12. #12
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: what a difference a basket makes!

    The tiger striping is generally seen as desirable.

    IMO--as soon as the striping starts to pale off, stop. The flavour is already in the cup.

    Greg

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    Re: what a difference a basket makes!

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    I always get some amount of striping, but when it starts twirling I think it means some areas are coming out faster and some slower, making it twist, probably due to (again) channelling. Thats my guess anyway ;) But my last order was to QLD and it hasnt arrived so Im out of beans to keep experimenting :(



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