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Thread: Machine standards across the board.

  1. #1
    Senior Member shapeshifter's Avatar
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    Machine standards across the board.

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I have a question.

    There are so many different sorts of machines out there made by and copied by so many different companies...

    Why has no one made a machine that doesnt breakdown or need modifying in some way, and I dont mean adding a PID, I mean that there is something wrong internally, whether it be seals or steam wands or even something as simple as water levels?

    I look at the Home Barista forums regularly and when you go to the espresso machine section every single page has at least half of its threads on each page about a breakdown.

    I realise that America is a larger population base and that what we see on the internet isnt an exact percentage of the population but with that many threads, surely its not just people on forums.

    A lot of machines seem to be in the AUD$2500 plus range. At what price does this not happen?

  2. #2
    Caffeine Junky
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    Re: Machine standards across the board.

    I see where you are coming from with this post but dont entirely agree.

    With regards to breakdowns, coffee machines have moving parts and withstand high heat. Under these conditions for a prolonged time eventually things are going to wear out. You wouldnt expect to drive a car for years without regular matinenance and changing of filters, tyres, plugs, etc.

    I think the equipment our sponsors sell tend to be quite robust. Consider machines like the Lelit or Silvia which should last a minimum of 10 years with regular use & good maintenance.

    I own a 12 month old VBM Domobar Junior at home and a 3 year old Nuova Simonelli Oscar at the office. Neither machine has had a problem so far (fingers crossed). The only thing thats required replacement is group seals. Like most CSers I am pedantic about maintaining my equipment and I only use filtered & softened water in my machines.

    With regards to modifications I can honestly say that (for me) the VBM Jr is perfect just the way it is and I dont seem much/any room for improvement. Perhaps people more fastidious than I would find things not to like.

    For my Oscar I do own 2 different steam tips. One for daily use and occassionally a 4-hole tip for when I have to texture large volumes of milk. I find the 4-hole tip too powerful for small volumes.

    There are many similar machines on the market, particularly in the E61 group HX range however there are subtle differences between them. Different people have different needs & preferences which is why we dont all buy the same machine.

  3. #3
    TC
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    Re: Machine standards across the board.

    Hi ss,

    I think a little perspective is required here.

    To illustrate, we have thousands of clients. On a week to week basis, we see 2, perhaps 3 machines and more often than not, were talking general servicing (which many users choose to do themselves).

    In general, good machines are hugely robust and will take a heap of abuse before turning up their toes.

    Hope that helps ;)

    Chris

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    Re: Machine standards across the board.

    Quote Originally Posted by 69362E383338343D3D3E3E363A355B0 link=1303393541/2#2 date=1303426874
    ....In general, good machines are hugely robust and will take a heap of abuse before turning up their toes....
    Agreed and it should be added, there is a good proportion of equipment breakdown that is caused by the operators themselves even if only through lack of understanding rather than outright abuse.

    It should also be noted that the better quality / build machines are built using far better quality components and engineering. Two different make machines when placed side by side may make coffee and perform equally....but we usually expect (and see in practice) the one built with the best components to give fewer problems in service over time.

    What elctro mechanical equipment of any kind does not require occasional "intervention", and is it not reasonable to expect that the higher the price tag of the item, the more expensive the intervention?

    Rgdz,
    A

  5. #5
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: Machine standards across the board.

    Quote Originally Posted by 69727B6A7F6972737C6E7F681A0 link=1303393541/0#0 date=1303393541
    At what price does this not happen?
    Never.

    Where human beings are involved at the operation interface, there are just too many variables involved. Even the latest and greatest vehicles such as the Mercedes S Class or Rolls Phantom do occasionally break down or require unplanned attention. It all comes back to humans on one level or another....

    Mal.

  6. #6
    TC
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    Re: Machine standards across the board.

    Id agree with that Mal.

    When applied to cars, the more exxy ones are often inclined to have more issues- due to complexity.

    Even owners of the Slayer have issues. I heard of one for sale recently and it cant be much more than 12 months old. There is plenty to read on one of the US forums about this particular machine. Certainly makes me wonder.* :-?

    I have always recommended simplicity for home use. This often implies an e61 or similar style arrangement. The more solenoids, touch pads and electronics, the more to go wrong ;)

    Chris

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    Senior Member shapeshifter's Avatar
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    Re: Machine standards across the board.

    I can certainly understand what you are all saying.

    I completely understand about the moving parts situation, my background being in cars and things like manufacturing hydraulic hoses and my OH being what he is.

    I did think about that last night, actually at 2 am, that majority are probably user faults in some way.

    I guess Im fairly pedantic about these things, I know I am going to treat the machine the way it should be. I also dont want to go to all the effort of doing a really good roast and not getting the best of the bean by destroying my machine.

    Im having to start researching what I want all over again as we are not getting a lever due to my OHs increased like of coffee, he doesnt have the time to fiddle around with everything to do with a lever, well unless I can find a machine that does both :)

  8. #8
    Senior Member shapeshifter's Avatar
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    Re: Machine standards across the board.

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by 3F60786E656E626B6B6868606C630D0 link=1303393541/5#5 date=1303459679
    I have always recommended simplicity for home use. This often implies an e61 or similar style arrangement. The more solenoids, touch pads and electronics, the more to go wrong
    Not something I need to worry about in this house* ;D

    In saying that though it is something I wanted to slightly get away from so he didnt have to fix things but also in saying that :D if a better coffee is produced from something that needs a solenoid regularly replaced well thats just the way its going to have to be!



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