Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: New member, New HX machine needed, Help Wanted :-)

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    22

    New member, New HX machine needed, Help Wanted :-)

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hello All

    I have battled on bravely with a Krups Thermoblock for the last 4 years, but finally it gave up the ghost last month. *I am now looking to upgrade, and think that I will miss the Silvia step and instead bite the bullet and go straight up to a HX machine.

    Basically my requirements are that the machine looks good aesthtically, will last many a year, can do the job for either half a dozen espressos throughut the day, or when entertaining, be able to do half a dozen milk based drinks back to back.

    From reading forums such as these I think I have narrowed the search down to these machines:

    Diadema Junior
    Unico Splendour
    ECM Giotto
    Expobar Brutus
    Isomac Millenium/\/Tea

    Are they all pretty much similiar? *Any others I should consider, or any of these I should discount? What sort of prices should I be looking at? *Same goes for the grinder I will need to team it with - the following seem to be reputable:

    Rocky, M5, Mini Mazzer

    What are everyones thoughts?

    Thanks a lot

    Rohan

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    1,176

    Re: New member, New HX machine needed, Help Wanted

    There are plenty of HX machines around. Add La Scala Burrerfly to the list as well as the Bezzera range. Near the top end in the Giotto Premium price range there is the often overlooked Bezzera BZ35, which has a rotary pump and needs to be plumbed in (this is a feature found mainly on commercial machines) but it can be run on an external tank (like mine). This machine has a great build quality inside and is very well laid out and easy to open up for adjustments and servicing. Truly worth a look if you have the space and are willing to look at around the $2800 pricerange.

    As for grinder, Id skip the Rocky and go straight to Mazzer or Macap stepless.

    There are plenty of options for high end machines. For a HX machine, my preference is for one with at least a 2l boiler. Why compromise your steaming with a tiny boiler?

    Cheers,

    Mark.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    441

    Re: New member, New HX machine needed, Help Wanted

    Isomacs are as good as any, but I havent seen as much support (ie; backup service in case something goes wrong etc) as for the ecms, diadema, unico, expobar, bezzerra or even the la scala.

    support and advice/training will/should be the clinching factor in a machine purchase. Unless youre a gun barista, and you like fixing things when they break :)

    expect a sales pitch from FC or 2mcm very shortly...

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    441

    Re: New member, New HX machine needed, Help Wanted

    oh yeah, as for the grinder ... dont skimp, go for the best you can afford!

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    22

    Re: New member, New HX machine needed, Help Wanted

    Thanks for the info so far guys. Lots of good machines out there and lots to think about.

  6. #6
    .
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    2,312

    Re: New member, New HX machine needed, Help Wanted

    Welcome.

    Another long post Im afraid.

    As well as being a direct importer of the Diadema Junior (3 different model styles) and Unico Splendor (2 diff body styles) I have also personally sold some of the other models mentioned when clients that wanted to deal only with me (for reasons of goodwill), wanted machines that I do not import.

    The only one of the above I have not sold is the Expobar model but that doesnt mean it isnt a nice machine.

    All mentioned above (except the Tea) compete in the same basic market with similar performance.

    Those who expect some kind of biased *"sales pitch" as you can see, may well be disapointed, but I will have a couple of things to say on a technical note and they are said for your benefit as a consumer as well as mine.....

    I tend to favour technically simple machines that do the job. Long term they give oodles of good service and performance with little fuss and little money spent on repairs. Occasioanlly we get machines in for repair ( we repair almost anything not just our own) *that are very "fancy" or complicated in their design and construct. They are unnecessarily complicated in many ways & backfire on their owners, causing despondency when machines are away for repair and despair over the bills. They also cause us to spend more time than is necessary trying to work things out...to a point where we are now starting to "refuse" to service some types of equipment....and advise clients to send them back to the place of purchase or to the importer because they should be properly geared for those machines.

    After you decide what you and your wife / girlfriend / partner or whoever like, take a close look at the standard of build, solidity and standard of finish, and deal with someone who gives good & knowledgeable before and hopefully after sales service and service backup.

    From a traders point of view it is a great disappointment to have clients coming into the showroom with their heads filled with technical specifications they have carefully gleaned over the internet. In the end they only come into see if we/someone will sell/get them something that has been recommended on the internet as having the best specs & "performance"........

    Its amazing how they believe lots of stuff written on the net, and dont give the time of day to some very experience equipment traders. This means they invariably go looking for and in some cases buy equipment that has no service backup local to their area. This backfires when eventually, they have a problem that reuiqres a spare part or something done under guarantee....and it has to be packed up and sent to some other city or out of state. Not every domestic consumer is also an espresso machine mechanic that can sort his or her own problems.

    And on a personal *note may I add that the above will eventually turn the market place into a monopoly of less than a handful of models/brands, it has basically already happened in regard to the Silvia where almost everyone that walks in the door wants one of those even if they may not really be suited (as an individual) to the model and there are others that may suit better. The best way really is to fit the right machine to the individual owner and not the other way around, and this is fast disappearing to a point to where there will be very little choice.

    So my advice is, dont get caught up in academic discussion and comparisons about specs...they amount to no more than BS in real terms and for example, tech specs cant tell if something is tinny and vibrates noisily.... When i buy something I want to be looked after, to have someone recommend something they support and that can be shown to work properly as it should, to be solid, look really nice, and if its a coffee machine, to make commercial quality coffee.

    If you are going to spend the money to purchase a semi-commercial machine then may I honestly suggest you are wasting your time buying a rocky ( NOTE, I import Rockies & Silvias direct so no accusations of bias here please). This is simply not a properly "matched" grinder for the type of equipment you mentioned above.

    If you are going to buy a semi commercial machine please consider a real / proper semi commercial grinder...its not about "performance" because you will never use the equipment to the max anyway....its just that you dont buy a modern new merc, and pull a 50s style caravan behind it if you know what I mean. *

    The MM & M5s you mentioned are the way to go. My company no longer bothers to get regular manual doser MMs. We find through long personal experience that the regular Macap M5 is perfectly equivalent to the regular MM if thats important to you as an individual. The M5 also comes with some accessories that owners of MMs sometimes lament ( that they cant get for the MM) and that would be a shorter *hopper for better access in kitchens with low overhead cupboards (called the M4), and a version without the doser unit on the front...it just has an exit tube and whilst it is not strictly a so called "doserless" grinder, we have clients that have bought these models (called MC4) and do use them as "doserless", grinding directly into the coffee filter.

    So, I hope you have found my reply useful and goodluck with whatever you decide to purchase.

    Regardz,
    FC.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,946

    Re: New member, New HX machine needed, Help Wanted

    Well said, FC. The best way, by far, to cut through all of the BS is just to go and try the machines, which any reputable vendor would be happy to organise. And dont just go see them; go and try espresso and milked coffee from them. In return, though, I think that customers should really support people who will take the time to demonstrate things to them and really get behind their products with their technical support.

    Cheers,

    Luca

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    12

    Re: New member, New HX machine needed, Help Wanted

    FC, I was not aware that there is more than one Unico Splendor body style available?
    I am familiar with the retro signage version....are you able to post a picture of the other model?

  9. #9
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: New member, New HX machine needed, Help Wanted

    The other model has curved stainless sides with no perspex panels- unico branding on the side....looks good! Attilio had one in stock when I visited Canberra...

    C

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    40

    Re: New member, New HX machine needed, Help Wanted

    Hi Rohan,


    I am in the same boat as you. I am looking at a Giotto, Minore or the Diadema junior plus lever.
    There is so much to consider, my main concern was bench space and to get a machine that was not too big.

    I have not thought about grinders yet.


    Scott.

  11. #11
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: New member, New HX machine needed, Help Wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by scottc link=1152843163/0#9 date=1152918709
    Hi Rohan,
    I am in the same boat as you. I am looking at a Giotto, Minore or the Diadema junior plus lever.
    There is so much to consider, my main concern was bench space and to get a machine that was not too big.

    I have not thought about grinders yet.

    Scott.
    Scott and Rohan- These are all excellent machines... You could also consider adding to these a tweaked (i.e. pump and boiler pressure adjusted) Expobar leva.

    As Attilio correctly pointed out yesterday, its important to match your chosen machine with an appropriate grinder. At this level, you should be budgeting for and thinking about something like a mazzer mini or macap M5 or similar. If you have to split the purchase due to finance considerations, buy the grinder first, not the machine. Its a waste of time assuming that your "local" will be able to grind perfectly for your setup, not to mention that we classify coffee as stale in retail after 1/2 hour....

    Hope this helps....

    Chris

  12. #12
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    12

    Re: New member, New HX machine needed, Help Wanted

    C,
    thanks for the brief description of the other Splendor model....
    is there any chance of a link to a site where it could be viewed?
    Thanks

  13. #13
    TC
    TC is offline
    .
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    14,665

    Re: New member, New HX machine needed, Help Wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by rowd link=1152843163/0#11 date=1152920303
    C,
    thanks for the brief description of the other Splendor model....
    is there any chance of a link to a site where it could be viewed?
    Thanks
    Yepperz- it can be viewed here!

    C



  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    106

    Re: New member, New HX machine needed, Help Wanted

    Hi All,

    Having been in exactly this same boat recently - need to upgrade, spent too much time researching specs, became totally confused etc, I couldnt agree more with FC, 2mcm et al that the key is to have a good fit with the consumers needs and the application of the machine and grinder. No amount of red-eyed reading could make up for the hour I ended up spending with Chris while he demonstrated my 2 machines of choice. *:) It was only in this process of listening to an expert with a good understanding across models that it became very clear which machine was the one for me. The sales, service and advice is what the vendor brings to the relationship, and while there is no doubt that a lot of ground work can be done on sites like CS, knowing you can pick up the phone or flick off an email with questions and get answers is great. Doing the research, but keeping an open mind is the best way to get a long term solution at a semi commercial level of purchase.

    So as a consumer, and owner to be of a Brewtus and a MM, *;D a massive thanks to all of the site sponsers and members who contribute their knowledge so freely. WOO HOO!!!!!


  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    136

    Re: New member, New HX machine needed, Help Wanted

    Sorry to ask a silly question, but Id always thought a doser grinder is a no-no for home environments, because you always want coffee freshly ground, not sitting in the hopper after being ground. Wouldnt you end up wasting too much?

  16. #16
    Senior Member fatboy_1999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    2,124

    Re: New member, New HX machine needed, Help Wanted

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    It depends on how you wish to use it.
    I have a grinder with a doser. I only load up as many beans each time as I need. I have done a tape modification to the sweeper in the doser which means the coffee left behind is minimal after each use.
    At the end of the day, I clear out the chute and the doser with a small brush. The chute holds WAY more coffee than the doser does.

    Personally, I dont mind the doser. I dont use it as a dosing tool, but I do find it useful as I can turn the grinder on and go and do other things whilst it is grinding. Also, since I only load enough beans for each shot, I can leave it running for a bit if I need to. IE: Im over at the fridge when it completes grinding, it can keep running until I get back to it. The coffee isnt going anywhere and Im not grinding excess.

    Many people have a preference for a doserless, and I have not used one for home, but I dont think the doser model is totally without advantages.

    Brett.



Similar Threads

  1. Help Wanted BNIB BELLMAN Machine
    By dennisl in forum Brewing Equipment - Entry level (sub $500)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 20th September 2011, 11:07 AM
  2. New Coffee machine - help wanted for a novice
    By nikkikirks in forum Brewing Equipment - Midrange ($500-$1500)
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 27th January 2008, 07:40 PM
  3. Espresso Machine Wanted
    By samthedog in forum SOLD
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 2nd January 2006, 07:47 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •