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Thread: crotchless, bottomless, naked...whos first

  1. #1
    ed_vinas
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    crotchless, bottomless, naked...whos first

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    So, who is going to be the first to try out the new naked, crotchless, zoka (yadda, yadda, yadda) portafilter thats all the rage on the US coffee scene - and give us a Coffeesnobs review?

    Ive got a spare portafilter....where can I get it cut open?


    sheesh....what will they think of next.
    Ed ;)

  2. #2
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    Re: crotchless, bottomless, naked...whos first

    I just cant see how this could possibly make a difference to the taste of the coffee - beyond wishful thinking. Has anybody done some proper double blind taste tests with one of these modified portafilters as yet?

    Phil

  3. #3
    admin
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    Re: crotchless, bottomless, naked...whos first

    I doubt it but hey its worth a go Ill butcher my old Porta filter this weekend.

    With a before and after taste test.

    Rich


  4. #4
    ed_vinas
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    Re: crotchless, bottomless, naked...whos first

    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeSnobs link=1095841591/0#2 date=1095847325
    I doubt it but hey its worth a go Ill butcher my old Porta filter this weekend.

    With a before and after taste test.
    Go Rich - push the envelope in the name of CoffeeSnobs. ;D Make sure you take some pics.

  5. #5
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    Re: crotchless, bottomless, naked...whos first

    Has anybody done some proper double blind taste tests
    If you go through the looooooong thread at CG found here: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/general/69297?LastView=1095546999&Page=1 there are a few mentions of blind testing and stuff. All seem to indicate people preferring the bottomless pf. The one factor that is impossible to remove is that the barista knows which pf he is using and may be taking more care with the bottomless shots since errors in building the shot have such visually obviousl consequences.

  6. #6
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    Re: crotchless, bottomless, naked...whos first

    Theyre saying that the shots seem to be sweeter, I have to admit I cant see how this would be! I personally think it would be a joke trying to do Espressos as the shower from the top would not direct the brew into the cup.

    Oils etc going rancid in the portafilter, shouldnt be an issue if you clean as you go, We soak out group cups in cleaner twice a week and the insides are very clean including the spouts.

    Maybe they have something here, or maybe its the pack mentality, if one says its good everyone else follows over the cliff.

    Maybe I am wrong but I think someone was bored and decided to play.

    I personally wouldnt throw the cost of a GroupCup/Portafilter down the drain to do this.... Ide put the money into getting some decent coffee.

    Yeah yeah maybe ime an old stick in the mud, but its only my own thoughts. :)

    FB

  7. #7
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    Re: crotchless, bottomless, naked...whos first

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark link=1095841591/0#4 date=1095891871
    If you go through the looooooong thread at CG found here: http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/general/69297?LastView=1095546999&Page=1 there are a few mentions of blind testing and stuff. All seem to indicate people preferring the bottomless pf. The one factor that is impossible to remove is that the barista knows which pf he is using and may be taking more care with the bottomless shots since errors in building the shot have such visually obviousl consequences.
    Thats why double blind testing is important. Heres how it could be done. As a control, brew two shots initially, one in each portafilter, and label the each so the taste tester can confirm that they are able to discern a difference. If the taste tester is unsure, brew two more shots and keep repeating until the taste tester is confident that they are able to notice the difference.

    Then, we move onto the testing. A decent barista could prepare and tamp the shot into a basket in a normal portafilter. The basket is then removed and given to another person in another area out of the view of the barista. This person flips a coin and selects either a normal or bottomless portafilter depending on the results of the toss, records the choice, puts the basket in the selected portafilter and pulls a 30 second shot. The shot is then moved to another area and given to the person doing the taste testing. The first shot is taste tested, then the tester records a simple "better" or "worse" on each subsequent testing. Do this for around 10 shots and then compare the results.

    At all times, neither the barista nor the taster can see the machine, and only the shot puller knows which portafilter was used, and the shot puller does not give the shot to the taste tester - its given through another party who doesnt see which portafilter was used either. The only requirement on the taste tester is to rate each shot relative to the one preceding it and only in a broad term such as better or worse.

    If the bottomless portafilter does make the coffee taste better, then we should see the testers answers correlate to when it was used.

    Now, all this is an exteme amount of mucking around, and Id not really expect anyone to take it this seriously. At the end of the day, its all about the taste, and if people think that cutting the bottom off a portafilter makes the coffee taste better, then (to them at least) it most probably does.

    The major contradiction that I see is that some people rave on about the importance of keeping the portafilter hot to ensure temperature stability. How does removing a big chunk of the bottom of it do that? Surely, youre sacrificing some of that temperature stability by doing this. People go out and install PIDs and all sorts of gadgets to increase temp stability because its considered so important. Portafilters are rated on their heaviness and thickness. All of a sudden, that now doesnt seem to matter.

    Regards,
    Phil
    (sceptic) - but I think youd already figured that out ;)

  8. #8
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    Re: crotchless, bottomless, naked...whos first

    Of course one arguement (and Im not taking sides, Im distinctly undecided on this) about temp stability, is if you dont make your espresso pool in the bottom of the pf, then ooze slowly through the spout, it doesnt really matter how hot they are.

    (and nice work to whoever just picked up a brand new mazzer on ebay for $550 with the only bid, I was tempted to have a go but decided to save my pennies)

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    Re: crotchless, bottomless, naked...whos first

    http://www.coffeesnobs.com.au/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Brew;action=display;num=1106001550 and its external link is probably one of the better writeups Ive seen on this topic. Photos abound and descriptions are reasonably thorough.

  10. #10
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    Re: crotchless, bottomless, naked...whos first

    Quote Originally Posted by gregpullman link=1095841591/0#8 date=1109896700
    http://www.coffeesnobs.com.au/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Brew;action=display;num=1106001550 and its external link is probably one of the better writeups Ive seen on this topic. Photos abound and descriptions are reasonably thorough.
    I took the plunge with a bottomless last November. I wrote a little about it and put a nice picture of the espresso coming from my Silvias bottomless portafilter. The 30KB picture itself is a link to a larger version (690KB), so you can get a good look if you have broadband. Count the number of droplets. Of course, I was never able to get that good a picture again.
    http://www.terrystockdale.com/coffee/coffee.shtml

    Terry
    Visit my computer tips, coffee pages and forums at
    http://www.terrystockdale.com


  11. #11
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    Re: crotchless, bottomless, naked...whos first

    where can you buy one from ?

  12. #12
    TC
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    Re: crotchless, bottomless, naked...whos first

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisk link=1095841591/0#10 date=1123485472
    where can you buy one from ?

    www.coffeeparts.com Buy a replacement portafilter and leave a note for them in sales notes as you progress through the transaction. They charge (I believe) a $15 cutting fee but do a great job *;). Alternately, get a 2 1/4" hole saw, an old portafilter and a vice, go to town, tidy up the mess and order a LM triple basket fro mCoffeeparts to go in it....

  13. #13
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    Re: crotchless, bottomless, naked...whos first

    I noticed a week ago that coffeeparts now have them on their website for direct purchase without the need for mentioning you want it bottomless: http://www.coffeeparts.com/accessories/nakedpf.html

    Incidentally, I chopped the bottom out of my old-style Silvia pf a while back. I have a commercial pf that I use day-to-day so it was spare and didnt matter if I wrecked it. I find I use it pretty much all the time, every now and then I pull out the commercial pf, but I always find myself swapping back to the bottomless.

  14. #14
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    Re: crotchless, bottomless, naked...whos first

    thanx. notice no shelf unit for the giotto. i may need to take matters into my own hands. ;D

  15. #15
    TC
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    Re: crotchless, bottomless, naked...whos first

    I got mine from them Chris- they do have stock. Its just a standard 58mm

  16. #16
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    Re: crotchless, bottomless, naked...whos first

    You can buy them from various retailers but at the price ($89 US plus shipping :o) it is much cheaper to use a normal portafilter and cut the bottom out with a hole saw and tidy with a file or dremel.

    The only thing youll miss is the nice chroming on the cut edge which aint going to be seen by anyone and has no impact on the coffee.

    I cut mine at XMAS and would never go back.

    Cheers

  17. #17
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    Re: crotchless, bottomless, naked...whos first

    Should we perhaps reconsider the whole naming thing of this portafilter and perhaps call it a circumcised portafilter ::)

  18. #18
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    Re: crotchless, bottomless, naked...whos first

    That is an idea.

    The model name maybe could be the Rabbi or something similar!

    :)

    Grant

  19. #19
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    Re: crotchless, bottomless, naked...whos first

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Just a note that coffeeparts is Australian, so that price is $89AUD. Ex GST and shipping though. So probably about $110AUD delivered.



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