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Thread: Naked Portafilter

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    JR
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    Naked Portafilter

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    After sampling Chriss (2muchcoffeeman fame) naked ristretto shot on the weekend, I had to get one to play with.

    The nature of the beast allows greater feedback as to what is happening within the portafilter during a pull and specifically tunnelling. I am glad to say I havenít had any problems with squirting or mess to clean up, so the Greg Pullman tamper must be working a treat.

    Before tasting Chrisís shot I couldnít see how the taste of a naked shot could differ from a standard, but I am astounded. To my undeveloped palette the shot is sweeter, cleaner, a lot thicker in consistency and overall very smooth in the cup and what a great sight to watch the pour.

    The only drawback I can see at the moment is some larger air bubbles in the crema. Is that normal?

    I am still at the playing stage and I would like others to share there experiences with going naked.

    Cheers
    Dan

    P.S. After going naked, has anyone gone back to the normal?

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Sounds like youre heading in the right direction, Dan. Im glad you enjoyed the coffee and its great to hear that youre not seeing channelling in your lab.... Im using LM triple baskets and overpacking- circa 21gm. You can throw the 30ml/30 sec rule out and go for a really slow squeeze. Ive had great results in the 60sec region. Experiment with grind and enjoy! *;D Larger bubbles can occur due to increased oxygenation of the shot. You may like to have a look at http://malachi.coffeed.com/naked.html which has some great info shot sequences.

    Chris

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    hey where can one get one of these portafilter?

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    www.coffeeparts.com will sell you one. Give them a buzz :)

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Or make one youself using a hole cutter. It only needs to be about as wide as the part of the basket that has the holes, say 50mm, as the pour comes to a fairly narrow stream from the centre of the basket anyway.

    I got a friend to do the cut using a hole cutter attached to a normal electric drill then smoothed off a couple of bumps with a dremel. Not as swish looking as some of the commercial versions but it works exactly the same.

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    I can see that using a naked PF looks cool, but surely the taste of the shot is a perception thing? What is the difference in chopping out the bottom of the PF? Surely the temprature stability is compromised too? (you ARE removing a large hunk of chromed brass afterall?)

    The coffee comes out the same way... but it then goes through a hole and down a spout... thats the difference right... am I missing something?

    If its about the coffee coming into contact with more air while its being brewed then sure - Ill listen to that theory... but so far Im not convinved it would make any difference.

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Yeppers- its all about air and oxygenation and the ability to see the effects of poor tamp....and if you dont believe it makes a difference, I say blindfold up and let your tastebuds see if you can tell the difference *;)

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    I tend to agree Andy but point that you missed is that you can see how well the puck is performing... if the water is channeling you can see it, while in a standard group handle the bitter over-extracted stream of water mixes with the "normal" shot inside the base of the group and you dont know.

    The taste might come from improved process?

    A good puck is important ;D

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    ...I need to type faster Chris ::)

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    I was sceptical but Im also adventurous so I gave it a go.

    The ability to see the pour and adjust tamp etc is certainly beneficial, but in my case I didnt fiddle with anything and the difference in mouth feel was substantial.

    Im assuming it is because the extraction goes straight into the cup rather than the bubbles being broken down while running down and being mixed with old coffee oil on the side of the portafilter base and choked through the spout.

    Id compare the difference to how you steam milk. It is still the same ingredient yet how you handle it can greatly affect the taste in the cup. Ill leave it to the growing number of websites espousing this modification to explain any science behind it.

    For me it is a big thumbs up!

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    JR
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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    AndyCJ

    I couldnt see how the difference could have a positive impact at all, but it does. I have done no scientific testing but I have a few theories.

    As 2muchcoffeeman says it increases the oxygen during the pour to a point where I can hear a noticeable bubbling (not unlike a soft drink) at the end of the pour and larger bubbles are evident in the crema.
    Second is that the coffee doesnt mix with old oils in the portafilter and spout, however regular cleaning should avoid this to a degree.
    Third if you use it as a tool to better understand what is happening during the pour you are able to iron out any technical deficiencies. On the other hand there was a real difference from the first shot I pulled.

    All of this may be dribble but it works for me.

    Dan

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Dan,
    Im assuming you use a Silvia, where did you get the naked PF from. I went to the site Chris mentioned, do you have to specifically ask for it through the contacts?

    Boris

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Yep, add it as a comment to your order or give them a call/email to let them know you want it chopped. Itll add $15 to the cost. How do I know? I had a call back from an inquiry email :-) Im yet to order it, but they usually push things out VERY quickly..... anyone know for sure what group head a Giotto has, is it a Faema???

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    HHhmmmm - well - Id better find a PF for my gaggia that I can hack into bits then? Sounds like at least a plan...

    Whats the go with this holesaw plan? Could you do this with a manual drill or would you need a press?

    Im willing to have a crack I think. Good advice can do that to a man!

    Chris - do you use these as standard now in the cafe?

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    You could probably bore it out with a hand drill, as long as you something to hold the portafilter securely, then file away the rough bits. It doesnt have to look good to do the job.

    It is almost certainly cheaper to buy a hole cutting bit for your drill and a normal portafilter than it is buy one of these custom made jobs, although they are nicely chromed over the cutout part.

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Almost certinly... quoted "$89 + postage and GST." for the Gaggia PF from coffeeparts.

    Ouch! I only paid $300 for the machine... so thats another 1/3 the price.

    Anyone out there got an old Gaggia PF they want to give away??? Anyone.....??

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Re portafilter costs:

    Ive bought lot of stuff from coffeeparts and found them great to deal with but if youre chasing a spare PF for a Silvia then Moccopan sell the genuine rancilio hd portafilters much cheaper than CP sell the clone ones for. Ie $40 vs $80.

    For my Cimbali however the Coffeeparts price was about half what the genuine article was.

    re the gaggia pf from coffeeparts, this will undoubtedly be much heavier than the standard one which comes with babies/careezzas/evolutions etc.

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Hey Andy,

    I noticed the same thing, I wanted to have a look at getting a different heavier pf for my gran. Anyway thats why I am still using the original one.

    clarexican

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Im been meaning to cut the bottom out of my old silvia PF for ages since I dont use it anymore. I finally did it this afternoon, started with just a drill and a hole saw, but it was taking forever, so I swapped to a Dremel with a cutting wheel.

    Ive only had one double so far, and the most obvious taste/texture difference I notced was a lighter, "fluffier" crema. Sure looks purdy though.

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Ive just been speaking to Sean Edwards, publisher of "Cafe Culture Magazine".

    Just so you know...its one of the quarterly cafe/coffee industry magazines that youll find lurking in cafes throughout Australia...

    Anyway, take a look at the cover of the issue just out ("Spring 2005"). Theres a magnificent photo of an espresso brewing out of a naked filter holder.

    Close inspection of the machine will reveal its one of my Diadema Unico SPLENDOR lever group machines....notably, the one in his office!

    Great photo, for anyone that hasnt seen espresso brewing out like this before and doesnt know what this topic is about.

    Regardz,
    FC.


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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Quote Originally Posted by Fresh_Coffee link=1116487115/15#19 date=1124260333
    Anyway, take a look at the cover of the issue just out ("Spring 2005"). Theres a magnificent photo of an espresso brewing out of a naked filter holder.

    Close inspection of the machine will reveal its one of my Diadema Unico SPLENDOR lever group machines....notably, the one in his office!
    So Fresh, thats what my machine would look like if I chopped my PF? ;D

    I was thinking of chopping the bottom of the pf with the blind filter and alternating baskets when necessary.

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    P,

    dont chop anything yet. Let me have a bit of a think for you.

    Yes that is what your Splendor (and the brewing coffee) will look like if you stand on your head on the floor next to the machine while its all happening ;D ....or, if you make up a periscope to watch it happening, or, if you place the machine on a banana box on top of your kitchen bench to watch it happening, or.....!

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    FC
    I was also going to do a bit of chopping. Currently I have a Diadema Junior on the kitchen bench, making pretty awesome espresso.
    A naked PF would be fun. Let me know if you decide to do a few.
    JD

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    me three! very keen to get a naked pf for my new expobar, though I think she wont be as shiny as she is now ...

    its too fun to watch to not have one at home, and the idea of me brewing in the nude to compensate doesnt compare, or look anywhere near as good...

    sorry, it had to be said...

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Ive been naked for a while now... and loving it :)

    -Stephen-

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Quote Originally Posted by Fresh_Coffee link=1116487115/15#21 date=1124429778
    P,

    dont chop anything yet. Let me have a bit of a think for you.

    Yes that is what your Splendor (and the brewing coffee) will look like if you stand on your head on the floor next to the machine while its all happening *;D ....or, if you make up a periscope to watch it happening, or, if you place the machine on a banana box on top of your kitchen bench to watch it happening, or.....!

    Regardz,
    FC.
    FC, any new news on the streaking pf?

    P

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    That picture looks like a home chop job as i can see the brass on the edge of the cut.

    During the recent coffee training in Melbourne recently I tried a naked portafilter with an 18gm basket. The crema was incrediblely thick and bountiful.

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Revived this thread because I had my PF chopped the other day. I got my father in law to do the honours on the lathe at his work. I suggested the hole saw idea but got the response "mumble mumble.. lathe at work" and something about an 8" chuck. Its good to see that some of the defence force budget is going to helping the home hobbyist.

    Anyway

    The reason I wanted to do it was because I have been aware of some wormholes in my pucks. Its a documented issue with the Mokita machine and its one that Greg Pullman solved with a diffusion disc above the showerscreen. I think the newer ones have a different method of dispersing the water above the shower screen and mine is one of these newer ones but I was thinking it didnt work.

    Any problems Ive had, I have been pleased to discover, have all been to do with the operator. If I grind, dose and tamp properly then I get the beautiful, sexy flow and thick crema that many of you have already experienced.

    The other thing Ive done to my Mokita combi, on the advice of Eddie at Lygon Imports, is to angle my steam wand a bit. Previously it was vertical which made it hard to get the good swirl I need for proper microfoam. While it was hot (ie. after steaming some milk) with a protective dishcloth in hand, I gently and carefully gave it a bit of a bend away from the vertical. The small angle is enough to get a good swirl around the jug and my foam is better because of it. 3 hole tip I stole off another machine helps as well. With 6 litre boxes of Bonsoy for $20 at Macro Im almost tempted to start drinking lattes. But they say that once youve had black apparently you cant go back.

    Luke

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    I cant believe I wasted hours with a Dremel when I could have just posted my PF down to Peter. What are relatives for after all?

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Hey Mark,

    It wouldve taken some explaining believe me. We both have English as our first language but I was having a bit of a time trying to explain to someone who doesnt even drink coffee not only what I was trying to get him to do but also what that part was for and also the fact that Id actually paid money for a spare one that I was going to just hack holes in!

    Luke

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Ive cut mine out at work on a lathe, very easy you see the brass, but it cheap,
    if you want post it, Ill cut it out, happy to help
    Let me know
    Coffee on
    Mark


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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Great Pic!

    really tasty looking. I have images in my mind of doing a Barny from the Simpsons..... :P

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    I chopped mine with a holesaw on the ground in my backyard and it looks fine after a touch up with a dremel.

    Noone sees the new edge unless they crouch under the handle or are taking photos. ;)

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    That is nothing but BRILLIANT.. 8-)

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    I had my first shot thru a naked pf yesterday. I was very impressed! Looks so cool ;) It was a triple basket shot no less... 21 or so grams into 30ml in 30 secs.... WOW it blew my head off! Amazingly strong, but not at all bitter. It was delicious, amazing, life changing! By far the nicest espresso ive had to date. The shot was pulled for me by the barista at my local coffee shop/roaster. The barista is very talented.. he came 4th in the national barista comp that was on a few weeks back.

    I gotta get me a real machine, a naked pf and a triple basket.......

    ;D

    Ben

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Got my naked PF, and ordered the larges basket Mocopan supply with the Rancilio handle, 18 grm. The Double ristretto latte is fantastic, and I would have to say a naked shot makes for a better straight espresso. ;)

    Who makes the big boy baskets to fit into a Rancilio handle and how big are they.

    Anyone??

    Boris - proud owner of a naked PF and redundant double spout. ;D

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    ok so i have a question re: naked

    i went out and got myself a naked portafilter for my silvia together with a 14g Marzocco basket.. I have a 58mm tamper that I bought off the shelf. my problem is that the tamper doesnt fit deep enough into the Marzocco basket, therefore I get a lot of channeling.. in fact it almost defeats the purpose of having the naked PF.. i know the suggestion is to order a Pullman but I was wondering if anyone could tell me which part of the basket should I be measuring with the micrometer to give him the correct diameter for a new Pullman tamper????

    thanks
    paulie

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Quote Originally Posted by paulie338 link=1116487115/30#36 date=1136418650
    . . . my problem is that the tamper doesnt fit deep enough into the Marzocco basket, therefore I get a lot of channeling.. in fact it almost defeats the purpose of having the naked PF.. i know the suggestion is to order a Pullman but I was wondering if anyone could tell me which part of the basket should I be measuring with the micrometer to give him the correct diameter for a new Pullman tamper????
    Hi Paulie,

    You could post your basket to Greg Pullman to have him make you a perfectly-fitting tamper. Or, you could email him with your question. The email address is on his web site: http://coffeetamper.com.au/

    Cheers,

    Rob

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Use a set of Vernier Calipers to measure the inside diameter of the portafilter.

    He also has some measurements for standard baskets. Through the order form, you can specify which basket you have, and it should have a pre-measured number along with it.

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Ok thanks guys.. I ended up ordering one.. Ill send the basket down, I think its worth it.

    One more question.. how do I get a REALLY even dose without a doser on my grinder? Currenlty, I use a digital scale (accurate to 0.1g) to measure out 14.5g of ground coffee. I measure the coffee in an espresso cup then tip the coffee into the basket, tap it multiple times in each quadrant to get the dose as even as possible then tamp.

    I consistently get channeling and Im getting anxious for that perfect NAKED shot!!! >:(

    Paulie

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Howdy Paulie,

    If youre weighing your coffee theres no need for a doser on your grinder. Weighing each batch of beans will give you a more consistantly accurate dosing than a doser will. Just remember that the amount of coffee you use will change as you change beans and grinds.

    It sounds like you may be underfilling your basket. When you remove the portafilter after pulling the shot is there a clear impression of the screens screws head in the top of the puck and is the puck dry?

    I dont know about on your system but on mine the coffee when tamped down ends up just above the middle of the ridge youre hitting with your tamper. I end up needing usually about 19.5g of coffee to fill it to that level.

    Try increasing the amount of coffee you use, remembering to adjust the grind to maintain your shot time, until the puck comes out dry and with a clear impression of the screens screws head in it.

    What are you getting for extraction times and what kind of grinder are you using?

    Java "Weighing in" phile

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Yup Java is on the money, you seem to be underfilling the filter and this is the problem with weighing the dose, given there are several different types of filter & many models of machine all resulting in differing amounts of coffee (weight) per filter / model, all constituting the "correct" dose for any individual set up.

    So in my training school we dont teach course participants to *"weigh the dose".....we dont talk about weights at all....Instead we mention only VOLUMETRIC dosing and that is, you fill the filter to the correct level for the combination of filter / machine you are using. That means, weights are out the window!

    Fill the filter with "loose" coffee grinds until the level of grinds is just above the absolute top part (rounded edge) of the filter. Tamp it down. Apply the group handle to the group in the machine then immediately remove it (do not brew that coffee) & see if you have a light imprint on the top of the grinds from the shower in the group. If not then the filter is underfilled... With silvia, you should also have a nice deep hole where the showers grub screw has dug in. Dont be concerned, this is correct. If you weigh the resulting dose & with the deeper than standard filter you are using, you will find it is closer to 18 or 19 grams as mentioned above not 14.5 therefore, definitely underdosed.

    Use a "dry group" ie do the above before you have flowed any water through the group, or else the grinds will stick to the wet shower & you wont be able to see what we need you to see...a dry imprint from the shower indicating a full filter.

    On a regular "generic" commercial filter, this usually means the level of tamped grounds is at the top of the circlip groove in the filter...if you can see the groove after tamping, you are usually underfull.

    Apply similar principles to domestic filters but expect the level of the "correct dose" in the filter to vary markedly from model to model with some models requiring the tamped level of grinds to be virtually at the top of the filter....

    Hope this helps.
    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    I generally agree with FC.

    I was in fact waiting for someone to say something along these lines.

    I cringe a bit when people talk about weighing each shot. For one thing it is a heap of trouble and definitely give appearance to guests of being a bit anal.

    The other thing is that it just doesnt work as volume, as FC, points out is a better way to go anyway as it gives more predictable shots.

    The only thing I do differently is to distribute the coffee in the portafilter with my finger then wipe any excess off the top so that it is filled dead flush with the top of the portafilter.

    Mind you I might be being a bit anal too but it works well for me.

    Grant

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Well, that is all very valuble information.. thanks! I will see how I go in the next few days and let you all know. Im not sure why I got stuck on the old 14.5g thing.. the guy at Mocopan told me thats what he does in his Silvia so I stuck with it.

    Im glad I asked the question about dosing.. Ill try the finger thing to wattgn.. cheers!

    Paulie
    :o

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn link=1116487115/30#42 date=1136502327
    I generally agree with FC.

    The only thing I do differently is to distribute the coffee in the portafilter with my finger then wipe any excess off the top so that it is filled dead flush with the top of the portafilter.

    Mind you I might be being a bit anal too but it works well for me.

    Grant
    Hmmm... you think youre anal? I use a wooden stirrer stick to level off so I get a nice even distribution.

    Brett.

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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Great information as usual FC. I would whole-heartedly agree that if you are working in a commercial setting or doing many shots then weighing the beans for each dose is flat-out nuts and doing so would be grounds for being taken away by the men in little white coats. :o However if on the other hand you are doing just single pulls and looking for the most consistant and repeatable shots with minimal wastage using beans as fresh as possible I would argue that weighing the beans is then a viable option.

    <This is not to say that you use a set weight of beans for every dose reguardless of the coffee and grind being used. Every coffee and every roast will require a different mass of beans. Even the same coffee done to the same roast will require slightly different weights as you adjust the grind through-out the day to maintain your shot times and basket fill levels.>

    Wastage in a commercial environment is expected and is a trade off for keeping production numbers up and is calculated into the price the consumer pays for the finished product(TANSTAAFL). As home roasters and baristas we (usually!) arent under the time constraints found in cafes and I think we are also a bit more conscious of waste. We hate to see the product of all our efforts end up on the counter top instead of on our taste buds. :)

    Ill be to the first to admit Im an efficiency nut (many call me anal about it :D) and when doing only one pull weighing the beans out prior to grinding not only reduces your waste to virtually zero but also (when using a doser) reduces the time from the beans being ground to when theyre actually brewed (if youre going for zero wastage). If the amount of wastage doesnt matter then you simply grind more coffee than you know youll need and the time savings wont apply.

    Its all a matter of personal choice and environment. I myself like weighing the beans prior to the grind as it helps give me as exactly a repeatable shot as possible by eliminating one more variable. Doing so in a commercial environment would get you rubber accommodations. :D

    When I pull a shot I go through an exact sequence of events every time. Done properly and consistantly the sequence Ive established eliminates takes all the guess work out of pulling a shot and allows me to pull consistantly great shots. When the pull time starts to drift and needs adjustment alls it takes is a slight adjustment on the grind and occassionally a small adjustment on the weight.

    The proper mass of beans to use varies quite widely depending on the bean, roast, and ambient conditions from less than 18g to over 21g here. Most end up in the 18.7g-19.7g range with less than a quarter of my beans/roasts falling outside that range so far. Roughly 50% fall with-in the 19.2g-19.7g range.

    Java "Beans to da grindstone" phile

  47. #47
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    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    67

    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Ok, what I have discovered is for the grind that I get from Mocopan, if I use any more than about 15g. I choke the machine even with a very light tamp. I usually get a good extraction time (bout 25 seconds) with 14g of this particular grind and a normal tamp.

    I have other coffee from a local roaster which is ground a little coarser. With it, I get great shots with 18.5 - 19g of coffee... I wasnt weighing at first, I used the suggestion of filling the basket losely then leveling, then tamping.

    I am making slow progress. It would my life much easier if I had a Rocky or similar...

    Cheers,
    Paulie
    8-)

  48. #48
    Senior Member
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    Nov 2004
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    Augustine Heights QLD
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    302

    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Attention all Naked PF users. Please refrain from using the word anal in the same sentance as naked and PF. We could get into trouble. :-[ We shoud refer to naked PFs as bottomless or dackless (for Javaphile - dacks is slang for shorts or trousers). No-arse PFs is probably not a good choise. Maybe crutchless? ;D

    Have I over stepped the line? :-/

    Boris ;D


  49. #49
    TC
    TC is offline
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    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Quote Originally Posted by Boris link=1116487115/45#47 date=1136787033
    Attention all Naked PF users. Please refrain from using the word anal in the same sentance as naked and PF. We could get into trouble. *:-[ We shoud refer to naked PFs as bottomless or dackless (for Javaphile - dacks is slang for shorts or trousers). No-arse PFs is probably not a good choise. Maybe crutchless? *;D

    Have I over stepped the line? :-/

    Boris ;D
    Crotchless is the correct term ;) ;D

    Chris

  50. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    441

    Re: Naked Portafilter

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    how about circumcised?



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