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Thread: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

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    tim
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    whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I have been in coffee nirvana (at least I thought so) since I got my
    MM and have been using it with my crappy old Sunbeam.
    "It can only get better with a better machine" I thought.
    Hoooo boy was I wrong, seems the old Sunny was a lot more forgiving than its replacement I plugged in tonite!
    The LaCimbali Junior-S which now graces about half the available bench space in our kitchen is gonna be one helluva challenge!
    So far my shots have been abyssmal!
    Im gonna have to lift my game.
    Maurice, Java.....help!
    :o :o :o

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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Mmm. When you said you were in trouble, I assumed you meant your wife was going to kill you after spending up big on a Cimbali!

    I will be interested to see how you go.

    All the best,
    Grant

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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    I had a laugh You are indeed in trouble now Tim! :o

    You might try starting here: http://www.home-barista.com/junior-buyers-guide.html That should give you a good starting point for your new toy. Grind and tamp consistancy is all-important with Cimbalis. As well as getting the proper (for your machine and tastes) purging cycle worked out.

    Ill check back in later but right now I have to go to the hospital to see my daughter through surgury to remove her gallbladder. :-/

    Java "Yes, there *are things more important than coffee, even for me." phile

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    tim
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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Grant,
    I have been in heavy negotiaition with the Chief Financial Officer for a week.
    Shes more concerned that its only slightly smaller than Battlestar Galactica!
    And this is someone who thought my last grinder was too big!
    I managed to get a half-arsed reasonable shot out of it this morning but I have a loooong way to go.

    -----------------------------------------------------

    Tks for the link Don,
    More importantly, I hope your daughter is doing OK.

    Best Wishes,

    Tim

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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Java,

    you are right, and family is important. Hope everything goes well for your daughter.

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Another devotee, excellent news!

    Did you get the ex game show prize posted here last week? I was considering making an offer just to keep it for spares ;)

    Re shot quality Ive never really been challenged too much by the big beast as long as its up to temp and the grind and beans are right. I use the cimbali during the week and a napoletana when I go away weekends and the cimbali definitely makes a superior brew, I dont usually bother about temp surfing, just pull a couple of blanks as if left idling the HX will get too hot.

    Some more info please Tim on whats not right about the shots, temp, time taste etc and what youre currently doing.


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    tim
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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Yep,
    bought the very one you mention...and its an absolute beauty!
    Only played for about an hour last night.
    It certainly takes a while to reach temp...I think Ill put it on a timer for the mornings.
    Most of the shots I pulled were a bit too watery and the crema was thin and blonde.
    I did have more success with the double basket.
    I think part of the problem is that Ive grown to used to the Sunbeam "no-brainer" PF where, to get a half-decent shot, I was packing as much coffee in as possible and leaning on the tamp.
    Not being used to a proper PF, I was a bit suprised to find I couldnt lock the Cimbali in with too much coffee.
    I tried starting at a coarse grind and dialling down to target, but as I got close, the machine would choke and dump water to the drip tray.
    Not sure what Im doing wrong. Ill start again tonite with a kg of beans to waste.
    Questions:
    do you even bother with the single?
    do you tamp very hard?
    do you go for really fine grind or on the coarse side?
    I rang Coffex to make sure there was nothing wrong with the machine (I didnt really think there was) and he basically said with Cimbalis there are no degrees, either you switch them on and they are working....or not.
    I guess I just have to be prepared to work at it.
    Coffex guy said they are very forgiving, Dan Kehn reviewed one and said they require really good technique.
    Who knows?

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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind) Y

    Thanks for all the well wishes fellow Snobs. My daughters surgury went perfectly from all appearances and she is now home and resting in bed. YAY!! :D :D :D

    I dont usually bother about temp surfing, just pull a couple of blanks as if left idling the HX will get too hot.
    If left idling for less than 5 minutes it will be too hot and need a purge. This is with the Cimbalis that have 1.2 bars of pressure in the boiler. If your machine only has 0.8 bars of pressure this time will be extended slightly due to the lower temp of the boiler. The ambient temp of the room will also have an effect on how long an idle it takes for the grouphead to become over-heated. How full the boiler is will also effect how long it takes the grouphead to overheat.

    do you even bother with the single?
    do you tamp very hard?
    do you go for really fine grind or on the coarse side?
    No, 30 pounds of pressure, 19g-19.6g (the exact amount is dependent on the fineness of the grind) of coffee in the double basket and ground to get a 25 second pull time, starting the clock when the first drips appear.

    I rang Coffex to make sure there was nothing wrong with the machine (I didnt really think there was) and he basically said with Cimbalis there are no degrees, either you switch them on and they are working....or not.
    While this is true in a commercial setup where shots are being pulled continuously it is NOT true for Cimbalis with intermitent use, and he should know this.

    The purge cycle that Ive found that works well for me is to pull a blank (with the portafilter in place) until the water stops sputtering out of the spout (usually about 8-10 seconds) and then let it run for another 4 seconds. Then I fill my mug from the hot water spigot (which will then cause the fill pump and heater to turn on) and go weigh and grind my beans. I then remove the portafilter and pull another blank shot letting it run until the sputtering stops (usually about 5-7 seconds) and for another 2 seconds. I then dispense and tamp the grounds, lock the portafilter on, and pull the shot.

    Java "Loves his Cimbalis" phile

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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Hi Java

    glad your daughter is doing well :)

    I am glad (am I crazy!) that I dont have to do that to make a coffee with that machine!

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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    How does one male a coffee? Heat it up until it gets so hot it explodes? ;D ;D

    Java "Inquiring minds want to know" phile

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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Hi Tim,

    All fine machines have their own personality....When I first fired up Silvia, she rewarded me with sludge and dreck for a week until I got the grind right.

    Once you get the formula, you will never look back...congratulations on acquiring an excellent machine!

    Java:

    Best wishes to your daughter....

    Cheers...

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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim link=1119533407/0#10 date=1119614890
    Ha Clare you fixed your spelling!! :D
    (cant tell u how many times Ive re-opened a post to fix a spelling-bollox)
    Hi All,

    Talking about spelling, heres a great little spell-checker for Firefox Hounds. Works great when I remember to use it ::).... http://spellbound.sourceforge.net/install

    Cheers,
    Mal.

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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Tim:

    My experience for what it is worth is crema is mainly in the bean, assuming you have the espresso making basics right. I mean I have pulled short shots long shots good shots bad shots. If they have Java/PNG or Indian Robusta in them the crema is always pretty spectacular even after being kept for a week.

    Most commercial establishments just seem to use the tamper on the grinder which is a light tamp although I still stick to 30 pounds or thereabouts as that is the generally agreed upon. Some people even recommend 40 pounds.

    Grant

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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Hey Tim,

    Good to see you are getting the hang of it.

    I had all sorts of problems myself when my Diadema first arrived.

    I think the biggest hurdle to overcome is to recognise the difference between the old domestic machine, in my case the Krups... :-[ and the new ones characterisitcs.

    I guess one becomes so familiar with their old equipment, that when they apply the same princiaples/techniques to their upgraded device, they are unable to produce a similar result.... Wow! Thats a little too deep for a Sat. Morning...... :o

    Anyway, the point I was trying to make was that the first few weeks of Diadema ownership were terrible! It was only after a few questions to FC and a change of thinking as to how the whole process happens, that I began to obtain great results! ;D

    And they just keep getting better as time goes on!

    Regards,

    James

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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    [quote
    author=Tim
    link=board=Brew;num=1119533407;start=0#6 date=06/24/05 at 11:17:43 ]
    It certainly takes a while to reach temp...I think Ill put it on a timer for the mornings.
    Most of the shots I pulled were a bit too watery and the crema was thin and blonde.
    I did have more success with the double basket.
    INot being used to a proper PF, I was a bit suprised to find I couldnt lock the Cimbali in with too much coffee.
    I tried starting at a coarse grind and dialling down to target, but as I got close, the machine would choke and dump water to the drip tray.
    Questions:
    do you even bother with the single?
    do you tamp very hard?
    do you go for really fine grind or on the coarse side?
    [/QUOTE]

    Re the baskets: I use two baskets, the standard double one that came with the machine *I use for singles and I purchased an oversized double one from coffee parts that I use for doubles, when I pack about 18-19 grammes into that it makes quite an acceptable brew for two cups. Its also ridgeless and thus easier to tamp. The stock single basket I cant recall ever using the stock single :D Im away for a couple of weeks or Id weigh the respective baskets.

    Tamping and grinding, the worst shots from this beast are always the ones that come too slow, these will inevitably taste bitter, burnt and dark. I know its heresy but even some of the quicker pours <20 secs have been godlike. The crema is youíre real guide, if its thick, tan and lasts for more than 30 secs or so you know youre on track.

    I try and keep the tamp constant, a quick levelling spin and about 20lbs or so pressure and adjust the grind to suit. No real magic, I have at other times when the preceding shots have been to slow just backed right off the tamp and hit a home run. Always level off so that the puck is at least a couple of mms below the top of the basket.

    What about the pressure, whatís the range between pressurestat on and off? Mines between .9 and 1.1. This is another variable that can be played with although I havenít bothered. Ken Fox who posts on alt.coffee has a couple of juniors (he keeps one as a spare in his basement {sensible man :P}). and was pretty helpful too me during my rebuild.


    Generally Iíve found it to be pretty forgiving with the worst thing you can do is to choke it, but these are just my experiences with a 10 year old machine although as far as I know its almost the same as the current models less a few electronics and a few smarts such as low water detection in the boiler

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    tim
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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Nirvana is here!
    I switched to the double filter everything I expected fell into place.
    Dont know why I bothered with the single..
    Crema, flavour, mouthfeel like Ive never had before.
    Thanks for all your advice.
    Oh bliss! Oh joy!!!
    Thanks also for the fantastic photos & info Maurice, this is an immense help.
    :) :) :)

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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Again thank you all for your good wishes for my daughter. Shes doing fine and looks to be well headed down the path of recovery. :D :D :D

    Glad you got it figured out there Tim! :D

    Ive found the single basket to be *extremely finicky while the double is much more forgiving.

    And now for my Whoo boy am I in trouble (the Cimbali kind) report.

    I havent been on today at all as I was busy dealing with a broken water feed pipe to the Cimbali. I woke up to find a massive water fountain blasting out from behind my fridge, a cm of water covering my kitchen floor, and several cms of water in my basement. :( :(

    Water damage was quite extensive in the kitchen with 2 cabinets, a microwave, 40 pounds of flour, and 20 pounds of sugar destroyed. I wont know how badly the floor was damaged until it dries completely. With as much water as poured through it though it appears pretty well soaked and will probably warp incredibly and have to be replaced all the way down to the joists. :( :( :(

    Damage in the basement was even worse. :( :( :( Water was pouring through from many different places and destroyed sheetrock walls and ceilings in 2 rooms along with 3 computers, monitors, and UPSs along with a dozen or so DLT backup tapes and other assorted pieces of computer hardware. One of my service/repair areas is directly under the kitchen (I run a small computer service company out of my house). Also a total loss was a several thousand dollar pile of paper from my letterpress printshop. Several type cabinets were pretty well soaked but no water appeared to have made it into contact with the type inside of them. The type cabinets are made from solid wood rather than a veneer so hopefully theyll be fine once they dry out. None of my presses or other printshop equipment was in the water path Thank God as it is all virtually irreplacable being that most of it is around 100 years old. I havent even begun to tally the damage to several other stacks of assorted stuff. As they were all sitting in several cms of water so Im assuming at this point that everything on the bottom of the stacks is toast as well as most of the rest of it. My coffee roaster got soaked but as it wasnt plugged in Im hoping it will be fine once dried out completely. Water apparently got into the phone systems wiring as well as there were several lines with shorts in them that had to be taken out of circuit to get the telephone service working again.

    As bad as it was it could have been a lot worse. Because were in the middle of a heat wave here I had turned the Cimbali off (for the first time in at over 6 months) before going to bed last night to try and keep it a bit cooler in the house. Had I not turned it off and had the pump kicked on it would have been running for hours and very likely been destroyed. Even more amazing was that there wasnt a fire as a result of the leak. Water was pouring directly onto the 200 amp main electrical service box but by some miracle it never touched any of the parts with current flowing through them! Once again Im happy as h*ll that Id put in completely new electrical service here some years back so its all romex now instead of a mish-mash of 5 different generations of wiring going all the way back to the old knob-and-post. Had that wiring still been in place theres NO doubt there would have been some massive shorts happening. As it was not a single circuit shorted out.

    All of this appears to have been caused by an air bubble in the 2 month old 3/8" poly line that connects the water filter for the Cimbali to the house system causing a weak point that finally gave out.

    All in all this is a day Im glad is over. Ive not cried and raged so much in many a year. Fortunately no one was hurt and it appears nothing irreplacable was destroyed.

    Java "The very wet" phile

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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Oh My!
    I am glad yout daughter is much better!

    I dont know what to say...... we had a similar though not nearly as bad experience.... in a rental flat and the real esate didnt believe us and left the water running for a week. we ended up with rotten cupboards, rotten carpet, lino in the kitchen ruined...then they wouldnt fix it.... I feel your pain.


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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Wow Javaphile, you and your lot has had a busy week and I guess wont let-off in a hurry.

    I hope the clean-up goes well and the warm weather hangs around to help dry it all out.

    ...wish I could offer a hand but your a little too far away. Moral support is the best I can offer ATM....

    Chin-up and good luck!

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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn link=1119533407/15#15 date=1119662086
    Tim:

    My experience for what it is worth is crema is mainly in the bean, assuming you have the espresso making basics right. I mean I have pulled short shots long shots good shots bad shots. If they have Java/PNG or Indian Robusta in them the crema is always pretty spectacular even after being kept for a week.

    Most commercial establishments just seem to use the tamper on the grinder which is a light tamp although I still stick to 30 pounds or thereabouts as that is the generally agreed upon. Some people even recommend 40 pounds.

    Grant
    Hi Grant,

    This hasnt been my experience, although Ive never used Robusta in any of my blends but understand why its used. When using the same beans/blend and making no other alteration other than to change the grind so that a light tamp, 5-7.5 Kgs, allows for a 30 second shot +/- 5 seconds, I always get much more crema - at least 50%-100% more - than when I set the grind coarser and user a heavier tamping force, i.e. in the region of 15-20 Kgs. This also suits me because using a heavier tamping force is quite difficult for me to do comfortably, so I end up with a double bonus.

    Cheers,
    Mal.

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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Gee wizz Java,

    Thats really terrible. As with everyone else, glad that your daughter is doing well and hope the cleanup and refit goes as painlessly as possible.

    There is a little device called a "shuttle valve" that you can get from most hydraulic supply retailers, that is designed to detect and protect against such an occurence. Might be worth checking out your local suppliers as insurance against future similar catastrophes.

    Wish we were there to help out. All the best Java,

    Mal.

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    tim
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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Java,
    What a week youve had!
    Glad to hear that your daughter is doing great. I guess it puts things into perspective that material things (well most) are replaceable but the ones you love and your health are indeed precious (makes a handful of brown or green beans seem a bit silly at times).
    I hope your cleanup is not too onerous or expensive and that insurance can lighten the load.
    I imagine with a few CSers we could probably clean it up in say, half a day!
    Have u got some beers in your fridge? Ill come over.


    ;) ;) ;)

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    tim
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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn link=1119533407/15#15 date=1119662086
    Tim:

    My experience for what it is worth is crema is mainly in the bean, assuming you have the espresso making basics right. I mean I have pulled short shots long shots good shots bad shots. If they have Java/PNG or Indian Robusta in them the crema is always pretty spectacular even after being kept for a week.

    Most commercial establishments just seem to use the tamper on the grinder which is a light tamp although I still stick to 30 pounds or thereabouts as that is the generally agreed upon. Some people even recommend 40 pounds.

    Grant
    Ta Grant,
    Ive been doing the home roast/espresso thing for bit over a year now without too many problems, but I do know that most lower-end thermoblock home machines such as my old Sunbeam are actually designed to "manufacture" or "enhance" crema with a pressurised portafilter. This isnt real crema caused by colloids and oils in the coffee. Its created by internal pressure generated in the PF and the shaping of the exit spouts. I guess with the new beasty, its like starting over technique-wise and I need to unlearn some bad habits. I must say, Java was bang-on when he said that the single basket in the Cimbali is finicky. The double makes life much easier.

    Tim

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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Have u got some beers in your fridge? Ill come over.
    Tell you what Tim, you come over and Ill buy you all the beer you want! Let me know when your flight gets in and Ill pick you up at the airport. ;D ;D

    Java "A long way from Tipperary" phile

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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Tim:

    I had very good luck with the single shot basket on my Gaggia and I used it all the time. It has sharply sloping sides as opposed to the Silvia which has shallow ledges which stuff up the flow of the coffee.

    We had the cafe day yesterday and Peter who is an experienced Barista reckons a light 10 pound tamp is the way to go but others would say 40 pounds or more.

    The biggest difference is generally the bean. We saw this in our cuppings too. Sometimes the most expensive and flavoursome beans dont have a creat crema. Then you get crappy robusta beans that seem to exist only to create crema in the cup. Java is the classic bean for body and crema and is even nice just on its own.

    Is this the Cimbali that girl was advertising a few weeks ago? Can you tell us how much you paid for it?

    It does take a little while to adapt the technique to a new machine. Yesterday, Peter, the barista at Supreme Coffee reckons getting good espresso is 90% grind 10% machine. I guess you could say the grind, tamp, filling combined but it all starts with the grind. After that the machine is just there to provide water through the filter cake (coffee) at a the correct and steady temperature and pressure.

    Send us some pix.

    Grant

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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn link=1119533407/15#27 date=1119762289
    We had the cafe day yesterday and Peter who is an experienced Barista reckons a light 10 pound tamp is the way to go but others would say 40 pounds or more.

    Grant
    Hey Grant,

    Talking about pics and a few words, when are we going to see a report on your first CS get-together? Would be good to share some of the experiences.... :D

    Cheers,
    Mal.

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    tim
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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Yes Grant,
    This is the same machine.
    Would post some pix if it was unique in some way but there are already plenty of pix of them on the web.
    Its fun learning how to try and get a better coffee from it.

    Tim

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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Tim,

    glad things are improving for you in the coffee machine department.

    Grant,

    re: "... Yesterday, Peter, the barista at Supreme Coffee reckons getting good espresso is 90% grind 10% machine. *I guess you could say the grind, tamp, filling combined but it all starts with the grind. *After that the machine is just there to provide water through the filter cake (coffee) at a the correct and steady temperature and pressure...."

    I dont want to tread on a anyones toes (and particularly other professionals) but as a sponsor here and as someone with many years professional roasting and espresso machine experience it makes me squirm in my swivel computer chair when I think someone may be getting the wrong idea or misunderstanding something, then regurgitating it around the net.

    We might all be agreeing about the same things and perhaps just writing the down in different ways but...

    Last night in "class" we brewed espresso with awesome crema....from 100% arabica...as usual. It doesnt matter which one, they all give a great crema IF the operator understands what he is doing. And lets not forget that espresso is made to be served and drunk (?) straight away, not be left to sit so that the crema will dissipate....that would be outside the bounds of espresso and as such is just asking for failure of the crema to occur....failure on purpose so to speak....there is no point waiting around to see how long the crema will last or to see how it will dissipate...and saying for example, that robusta wouldnt have done that. If you are waiting to find this out the brew is fast droppiing in temperature and the flavour has already started deteriorating.

    If you dont get good crema from an arabica, any arabica, the operator has missed something. He should try again, and make adjustments to his technique & equipment accordingly. If he still cant, either the beans are completely dead, there is something wrong with the equipment, or unfortunately, he doesnt have the required expertise.

    Th golden rule (yup, according to me) and cardinal rule of espresso making is YOU MUST FILL THE FILTER (to the correct level for that filter in that group handle for that machine...it will differ a little from model to model). The grind comes AFTER that. That is...if you havent filled the filter properly eg underfilled, there is no use or point in mucking around adjusting the grind to a finer setting to slow down the rate of pour as you then end up with 2 things wrong instead of just one...underdosed, and grinds too fine...might give you the correct rate of pour, but terrible coffee. This usually results in unfounded complaints being levelled at the roaster...and I am very very sensitive to incompetatnt espresso machine operators sabotaging the product, then complaining about the product!

    Tamping on the other hand is not as important as you moight think...as long as it is CONSISTENT for the operator and the way he has set up his equipment, then he will make a consistent brew. EG someone using the tamper on the grinder tamps less pressure, resulting in the grinder being set perhaps just one adjusting notch finer on the scale...rsulting in the same rate of pour as someone that tyamps harder and sets huis grinder one notch more coarse!

    After that, the operator has to be aware of the correct way to manage his espresso machine to get the best out of it...

    And when changing from one variety or blend of coffee to another...yes it is almost guaranteed that a grind adjustment will have to be made. That doesnt mean the grind is important...it means the barista needs the appropriate expertise to know what he is dong, which includes resetting the grind properly. Only fools change blends and varieties without resetting the grind to suit the new coffee (and dose if necessary...the finer the grind, the more it packs down when tamped, resulting in adjustment of volumetric dose coming from the grinds dispenser).

    And this is why when all is said and done, that the appropriate cliche is that your cuppa is the result of
    50% operator knowledge / understanding / expertise;
    25% good qualoity freshh roasted beans &
    25% good / well adjusted equipment.

    If Peter the barista says its 90% grind and 10% machine, *he has just undervalued his own importance in the equation by 100%.

    And all the above is the reason why buying espresso machines (particularly new ones) on the net is a practice that can be riddled with problems. It is much easier to get good and appropriate advice when you are standing in front of your vendor!

    Apologies in advance if this has seemed like some kind of a rave. It is not intended to be, nor to be personal in any way....and in some ways there is not enough real industry expertise in forums like this to help stop the spread of misinformation and misunderstandings about things that are really quite straight forward. The problem is that it is very time consuming to do this, and there are always participants that suck you for information, then go and buy their gear elsewhere (yeah yeah, got a "better deal"), completely underestimating the value of your advice, then get straight back on and want you to help them with the new purchase they bought elsewhere.

    Go figure.

    Regardz,
    FC.

  29. #29
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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    I think everyone has a formula which probably changes depending on what they are trying to emphasise at the time. If you take any formula and analyse it, it doesnt hold water, it is just something you use to emphasise the point at the time. I mean if you dont get good espresso in the cup then what is the point of the formula?

    From a commercial point of view once you have the bean, the roast decided and you work out the grind, you really just plug away, most of the time. ie. fill to the same level you always do, tamp the same as you always do, make sure the machine is flushed and away you go.

    It just depends on your perspective.

    I think also people overemphasise machinery, particularly the espresso machine and that can get a bit wearing. I mean even basic single boiler machine like a Nemox or a Silvia can produce wonderful espresso just as good as any much more expensive machine.

    Grant

  30. #30
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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    I am a fan of the La Cimbali Junior btw. A family heirloom and will last a lifetime.

    Grant

  31. #31
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Hi FC,

    Reckon youre right on the money there with most everything you said. I can vouch for how important it is for the operator to learn, understand, develop and practice getting the best out of their coffee on what ever machine they own.

    Now, my brother is not a silly guy having several quals in Arts and Architecture and loves a great coffee. If he lived next door to us, hed be over for a cup every couple of hours. Anyway, Ive loaned him my old t/block machine (still works fine) and gave him a quick run down on how to get the best from it, work out a suitable grind, etc. Hes had it for more than two weeks now and is extremely disappointed that he cant produce espressos that even come close to the ones hes had at our place (his words, not mine).

    Will be going back there again in about a weeks time to see what hes doing and try to correct any problems in technique. Also to reinforce the need to be observant when pulling the brew and how to interpret what you observe, and then make the necessary adjustments accordingly.

    It is possible to try and learn all of this from a book I guess but nothing really works better than learning from the experience and knowledge of an operator whos "been there, done that", if you know what I mean. Almost all of what contributes to being able to consistently produce great coffee comes down to the human element. It wouldnt matter if my brother was using my Mokita, a Silvia or a Cimbali, he would still be running into the same kinds of problems that he is experiencing now... Its all part of the learning process and if it was just down to the quality of machine you were using, then any new chum buying a machine from a $1,000 and upwards should be able to produce excellent espressos from the get go.... Shouldnt they? They wish.

    Cheers,
    Mal.

  32. #32
    tim
    tim is offline
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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Yep...
    thats me Mal
    I went out with absolutely no experience last week and bought the lot.
    Now I have "all the gear and no idea"
    I recognise as such of course, I really have no right whatsoever to comment or post on any subject.

  33. #33
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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    And from now on Tim you shall be known as ..."Tongue In Cheek Tim... ;D" !

    I have a couple of people in my current coffee class that also recently bought a used (La Cimb) Junior. Theyre on the same steep learning curve, and loving it (the machine, and the learning curve).

    Regardz,
    FC.

  34. #34
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: whoo boy am I in trouble. (the Cimbali kind)

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Oh I dont know Tim,

    I guess thats one of the many reasons why this is such a terrific hobby, theres always something new to learn. It doesnt matter at what level you enter it, whether with a new machine and a whole lot of new stuff to learn about technique. Even though we come at this from more or less the same direction, people being who and what they are, will always find different angles from which to solve problems and maybe discover a better way to do something that even long time pros may not have considered.

    Its all relative and we all learn from each other, dont we? I sure hope I do anyway.... all the best,

    Mal.



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