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Thread: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar *

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    Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar *

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    $750 Rancillo Silvia vs $1300 Nuova Simonelli Oscar ...what would you choose ? I`d love to know your thoughts.
    Feedback would be much appreciated.

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar *

    OK, I wont say anything. You know what I would suggest you should get, but I wont say it. :) I let the others tell you about the machines.

    Welcome to the forum Kovacs. A good old hungarian name youve got. Cool. ;)

    Just wanted to say hello.

    HELLO!

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar *

    Gday Kovacs,

    I guess it comes down to what you want from a machine. Both seem to deliver the same end result (quality??), but it looks like the Nuova will have the greater steam capacity (if you really need it) and the ability to steam and pour a shot at the same time. I havent read any detailed reviews which is recommended.

    That said, I would still chose a Silvia considering I can have the Rocky grinder as well for a lower total cost. Plus the Silvia has a hot water switch which is handy for the long blacks. Personally, since I only need to pour single shots most of the time with the ocassional bigger order I dont think the Nuova would be worth the extra $550 over the Silvia.

    Over to the experts....

    Cheers,

    Matt

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar *

    Kovacs,

    I have a Silivia and I really like it.

    The Oscar I dont own but what I have read and know about the machine is all positive.

    The Oscar will have more steaming power although for most people this is probably not a big deal although nice to have if you line up lots of people for cappos.

    The big boiler will provide more stable temperature control than the small boiler of the Silvia. The Silvia with temp surfing will provide excellent shots, but as one offs. If you line up a row of espressos with the Silvia, the first one will be the best and the rest of the pulls will be progressively cooler and possibly slightly sour as a result.

    The other issue with the HX is the size. Check your kitchen for room and height so that you can access the machine and reservoir without any problems.

    I would try to get the Oscar cheaper but in my opinion it is a great machine and it will last 10 - 15 years by the looks. I mean it may not last as long as a La Cimbali but it is 1/3 the price.

    Grant

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar  

    Yep,

    Agree with Grant and the others. The Oscar is probably close to the best value HX machine on the market and possesses all of the pros and cons that go with such a machine. All in all though, the Oscar is capable of producing one great shot after another and the ability to steam up a fog in your kitchen. It all comes down to the sort of use youll be making of the machine really...
    Lots of milk coffee drinks and lots of espressos, then the Oscar would probably have it over Silvia. On the other hand...
    If you only make a couple of brews at a time and not a lot of milk drinks, then the Silvia is more than capable of producing the goods.

    By the way Kovacs, a huge CoffeeSnobs Welcome to you and very glad to have you amongst the fray :D :) ;D.

    Just for your info, we have a number of site sponsors listed on the front page who would be more than able to provide you with a great deal on a wide range of coffee hardware, along with heaps of great professional advice. Definitely worth contacting them before you try elsewhere. All the best, and

    Cheers,
    Mal.

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar *

    Gday kovacs & welcome.

    In the direct context of your question:

    There IS NO comparison. They are essentially 2 very different machines, one is a domestic with best capacity *of any reasonably conventional design domestic I know of, and the other is a small commercial design ( "semi-commercial") with much more capacity, and quite different internal engineering to the other.

    Both are very reliable machines, but check and push for (what you think is) a truthful answer regarding availability of parts on oscar. The simonelli system in Australia is fragmented and lately it has been very difficult to get parts for some of the larger and not very old commercial machines...just an observation.

    Both make good coffee dependent on the operator, and the semi-commercial has a far greater capacity for steam / frothing milk / numbers of people / dinner parties etc.

    So the comparison actually depends on YOUR requirements. If you like having friends over, often, *and you can afford double the price of the cheaper one, you would not buy the cheaper one.

    Cant be any fairer than that, considering I sell Silvia but nolonger sell Oscar.

    Note the above does nto take the cosmetcis of the machines into consideration, just performance / capacity and possible serviceability in the future.

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar *

    Ive just bought a Silvia and would sell it to buy an Oscar. In fact its on shaky ground at the moment, as its not an easy machine to use. There is a learning curve, usually requiring a timer and waiting. Oscar doesnt come with this.

    Im not really bagging the most lauded home machine around, but IMO, without proportional temperature controll, this thing is not easy to drive. Ive recently read a few comments from ex-Silvia owners who state that while the coffee was great, it almost took a science degree to run it properly, whereas a HX machine is much easier to operate in order to get consistent results...

    The good thing about Silvia is its resale value is very high. So you can buy try and sell without losing too much in the process.

    Please dont flame me, its just my opinion, not written in stone.

    PS: I will add PID control to the Silvia and expect it will be a very different machine. Just warm it up, flick the switch and go... So dont go scouring ebay looking for my machine just yet ;)

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar *

    Sparky,

    dont let what others write on the net influence you so much in the pursuit of your own personal enjoyment. Silvia is easy to use if you understand it. The level of understanding is the same as required to own and run a heat exchanger machine. Neither, IMO, require PIDS, PODS, POOS, PANTIES or anything else starting with a capital P. It only takes a couple of weeks or so to come to grips with it.

    No coffee machine is consistent in how it behaves... consistency lies in the hands and capabilities of the operator.

    You already have one of the best domestic machines in the market. If you trade it up to a small heat exhanger machine, you are going to have the same set of situations cropping up.

    Now its my turn to ask people not to flame me....but really, there is so much scheit written all over the net about the technicalities and how difficult it is running all these machines, youd think they were all thorobred horses rather than simple coffee machines.

    Owning and running and getting pleasure from these basically simple pieces of equipment, doesnt need to be difficult.

    Put some earplugs in and get some really dark sunglasses so you cant hear or read what the leftie cafe latte set are saying about coffee machines on the net, and enjoy your own. When you trade up, do it because you just gotta have a bigger better one, not because someone else has been putting ideas in your head about **how hard** all this is and how what youve got just isnt good enough. Forget about trying to pursue the holy grail, youve already got it.

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar *

    FC,

    I just scored a BZ-40 (thought it was a BZ-99) but I love my Silvia.

    I wouldnt expect the BZ-40 to make better coffee although it will be more plug and play but only in that it is plumbed in (will be) and that makes life easier.

    I still think that they have designed the Silvia well. I did some temperature measurments on it and I was talking to Sparky about it.

    You are right, dead simple machines. Basically at lights out, the Silvia, is near boiling point. The average temp over 100mls is about 96 - 97 degrees coming out of the group. Allowing some temperature drop through the puck, it makes the Silvia bang on 94C or very close to it for extraction temperature.

    I think it is an art as well as a science and the reason the Silvia is so well regarded is that the designers have got it right.

    Even the worlds most fastidious baristas, Yes www.home-barista.com give the Silvia a 7 for expresso relative to an 8.5 for a top of the line machine. I mean that is a real compliment for a little 300ml boiler machine, right from the worlds most experienced and fussy snobs.

    If you want the extra 1.5 points then maybe my BZ-40 will deliver the goods, it probably will but if I hadnt got it for an absolute steal, it would not have happened.

    Even now I am looking at the kitchen and thinking just how am I going to fit it in. There is room but only just.

    Grant


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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar *

    nuff said on the Silvia. Im on the techie side of things, so understanding a machine is what Im about. Ive already discovered a lot over this weekend. Probably more thanmost people would care to know.

    FC, PID temperature control just makes the machine live up to its potential. The other benefit is ease of operation. Turn on, warm up, brew. My routine, that I developed this weekend (without PID control), is turn on, warm up, wait for heating element to switch off, wait 2 mins, brew. The 2 mins is required to wait for the boiler to stabilize after the heating phase. If you dont wait this long the brew temps are all over the shop, with large variations during the shot.

    Taste wise, Ive had a great cappuccino or two out of this machine. Unfortunately the beans I have dont make an espresso I particularly like, so the real test of taste has to await some decent espresso beans.

    After all this science, my head is starting to hurt. Now I just want to relax and enjoy a great coffee....

    Regards,

    Mark.

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar *

    Mark,

    have you missed my point? YOU are the one that realises the best potential that your espresso machine can give.

    You....are a human PID. Dont need no electronic "robot" to do this.

    Dont underestimate the value of the operator in the equation. Besides, this is ofcourse debateable but half the fun is in knowing how to "beat the machine". This is the "art" that people talk about, otherwise we all may as well run out and buy a super automatic, and have the production of all manually operated espresso machines....banned! *;D

    Too much science & details, not enough fun.

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar *

    FC, you just hit the nail right on the head. ;)
    Those words should be etched in stone.
    Not many are listening, though. ::)

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar *

    Hey all, not sure how to go about this with site sponsors and all, not wanting to upset them putting prices online. It was mentioned above that the oscar is $1300 ... you can get it $300 cheaper.

    Or if you want a HX machine, a better option is an expobar office pulser, same price, with a hot water tap as well, which could easily replace the kettle if all youre doing is making a cuppa tea for yer mum when she visits. That and the Expobar isnt plastic, its really thick s/s.

    Rather than saying where to get them from here, you can email me and Ill let you know!

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar  


    FC, I dont think I missed you point, I just disagree. With respect to what you said, the same goes for washing machines. No need to go fully automatic, the fun is in knowing how to work them... ;)

    BTW, as a scientist, I can say with a reasonable degree of confidence that a PIDed machine does NOT work the same way as a thermostat machine. They are way more stable and less prone to user error. A human cannot achieve that same degree of performance as the machine doesnt work the same way. On a shot to shot basis, a PIDed machine may hit the target 80% of the time, while a human may hit it 20% of the time. Just ask Mal about his before and after performance. Why not let technology make life a bit easier for you?

    Science vs Art... Let the buyer decide.

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar *

    The temperature is just one aspect of making coffee and it can be controlled by a skilled person by surfin the temp, by knowing your machine, by the time the water is in contact with the coffee, etc. *I reckon, if you give a cheap sunbeam machine ($200) to Paul Bassett with no pid and less then perfect temp consistency, he will still make a better coffee then any of us. *Of course you can say as a scientist that - yeah, but if everything else is being equal then...- but everything is never equal when you are making coffee. *

    Even if a thermostat is not as accurate or has more errors, a skilled person can adjust his technique and make it work. *That is where the art is. *I believe a human can achieve the same or better results then the machine can in many a circumstance, and making coffee is one of them. *Otherwise most cafes would have machinery in there that would give you the perfect coffe just by pressing a button and cafe owners wouldnt have to pay skilled baristas good money but rather have a blond with big boobs behind the counter pressing those buttons. *Hmmmmm! *Come to think of it, that is what happens out there but without the good coffee. *I had a laugh

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar  

    Technology does help make things easier. Remove some of the variables and you have fewer to deal with to get it right.
    Most of us are not world champion baristas, so if we can use technology to help out, then why not? FWIW, I believe that you can make great mlk based drinks with just about any machine, cheap thermoblocks included. Espresso is another matter.

    Ironically the early history of espresso was marked by innovation after innovation to improve the performance of the machines. Now we sit back and say the old ways are the best ways... cest la vie

    Well not everyone sits back... Check out Versalab.

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar *

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky link=1121420031/15#15 date=1121752273
    Technology does help make things easier. Remove some of the variables and you have fewer to deal with to get it right.
    Most of us are not world champion baristas, so if we can use technology to help out, then why not? FWIW, I believe that you can make great mlk based drinks with just about any machine, cheap thermoblocks included. Espresso is another matter.

    Ironically the early history of espresso was marked by innovation after innovation to improve the performance of the machines. Now we sit back and say the old ways are the best ways... cest la vie

    Well not everyone sits back... Check out Versalab.
    I agree, Sparky, technology does make things easy. *Is easy what we want, though?
    Imagine when people come over and you just have to press a button to get your perfect espresso. *How good is that going to make you feel? *We dont just like coffee, we like the challenge of making good coffee. *We like its compexities and the difficulties that come with it. *As FC said, the satisfaction can even come from beating the machine with human skill and understanding.

    We dont just sit back, but we practice and practice to understand the art of making coffee. *When it comes to technology and science we do sit back as we are not in the position to do much about it, since we are not scientists with the specific knowledge, tools, funds, etc, to build the right machine. *We are better off, and will have more fun just polishing our skills. *Or should we go and buy nearly $15,000 worth of Versalab equipment to get the perfect espresso? **

    We might not be world champion baristas but we can achieve a better brew by working on our skills then by working on our machines. *
    I wonder how world champion baristas become so good. *Is it by fiddling with their machines or is it by learning the ART? *
    I think, we all know the answer to that. * ;)


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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar  

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky link=1121420031/0#13 date=1121661228
    <br>On a shot to shot basis, a PIDed machine may hit the target 80% of the time, while a human may hit it 20% of the time. Just ask Mal about his before and after performance. Why not let technology make life a bit easier for you?<br><br>Science vs Art... Let the buyer decide.
    Yep,

    Thats the crux of it alright. The PID mod to my Mokita has made this a much easier machine to use, quicker from shot to shot and much more consistent in shot quality. Im not saying that a PID modded machine is better or worse than any other machine, but for me it makes my life a bit easier and since I cant afford even one of the cheaper HX machines, Ive now got a machine that provides a performance level that is well on the way to what I would have expected from a domestic HX machine. And, for a lot less money and a lot more fun... nothing like designing and implementing your own improvements to a machine; definitely a sense of satisfaction attached to that [smiley=cool.gif].

    Also, were not talking about a mod that turns a semi-auto into a fully-auto. We are just using a mod that controls the temperature of the water in the Boiler to a much greater degree than a standard t/stat is capable of. Kind of like a Super Thermostat if you will, that also allows a wide range of additional controls to allow one to tailor the Brew Water Temperature to what ever it is that you want. For crying out loud, our 4 year old Fisher & Paykel washing machine is more sophisticated than this ;) .

    Cheers,
    Mal.

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar  

    In the end, the satisfaction one gets from making coffee is unique to the individual.

    To quote Brian "You are all individuals." Crowd replies "We are all individuals!" One person replies, "Im not!"

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar *

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky link=1121420031/15#18 date=1121819172

    To quote Brian "You are all individuals." Crowd replies "We are all individuals!" One person replies, "Im not!"
    I had a laugh

    That is a good one.

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar *

    Blessed are the coffee makers.

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar *

    SPEAK UP!!

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar *

    Thanks for sharing. Im think which to choose between this two.

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    Re: Rancillo Silvia vs Nuova Simonelli Oscar *

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    I would save yourself the hassle and go the Oscar. I have had a Silvia and have used a Oscar on numerous occasions.

    A PID on a Silvia may produce better straight espresso as the Oscar can run hot, but that said with the right routine I was able to produce a balanced shot with lasting Crema on the Oscar.

    If you are more than an occasional milk drinker or a bit of an entertainer then I would say 100% Oscar as your guests will tire and you will need to be 110% on the ball to get the goods out in any kind of time or consistency.

    The Silvia is a little champ for the right application but if your budget is not limited then the Oscar is a no brainer.

    Things I liked on the Oscar were

    1. Quality internals
    2. Plastic case (sure not as pretty but just wipe and your a go)
    3. large drip tray
    4. steam train performance
    5. angled portafilter
    6. hose-less water tank

    Things I found somewhat annoying

    1. No as good cup clearance as the Silvia
    2. Steam knob turns anti-clockwise, confusing at first
    3. No hot water tap makes turning over boiler water a bit of pain. Not a taste issue more around maintenance


    Quick vid of me the Oscar to give you an idea.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs1hhiV2iGs



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