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Thread: Newbie Here

  1. #1
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    Newbie Here

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Well, certainly a newbie to this forum but not to the taste of coffee. Ive been lurking here for a little over a week and couldnt see any information on the machine Im interested in buying. The Rancilio Epoca single group. Ive looked at the Minore and the like and they just, IMHO, dont cut it for style. My concern on the Epoca is having a large boiler it will have a longer start up time and might be best left on all day for the very few shots I will be making. Not cheap to run at 1700 watts.
    While I have been given a reasonable deal to tempt me to buy I would be interested if anyone on the forum can recommend a retailer on this machine or indeed another machine if he or she believe there are reasons why I should not be buying it. BTW, my Baby Gaggia has gone to the big coffee house in the sky after 15 years loyal service. Thats why Im here.

  2. #2
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    Re: Newbie Here

    Sounds like a good stepup from the gaggia baby,

    re the 1700watt element, my cimbali has an 1800watt and it cycles on for about 10% of the time, ie 6 secs on evey 60 seconds, therefore the equivalent of a 180watt light globe.

    For my usage pattern I dont need to leave it on all day, about an hour in the morning and maybe the same in the afternoon. It comes up to temp pretty quickly (2.5ltr boiler) but I like to wait at least half an hour before pulling a shot, I imagine the Epoca would behave similarly, btw what is the boiler size??

    All the data Ive seen indicate there is liitle to be gained by extending the warm up period beyond 45minutes

    Good luck with your purchase!

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    Re: Newbie Here

    The boiler capacity is just shy of 4 litres, so thats a lot of hot water on tap. The other thing that comes to mind is the 1700 watt element might not be able to draw from a standard 10 amp GPO. I cannot find a spec. sheet on the the 240V model anywhere, including Rancilios web page.

    http://www.rancilio.com/ita/epoca_e.html

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    Re: Newbie Here

    By the looks of the info I found on this page a 10 amp circuit should be fine...

    http://www.alturacoffee.co.nz/shop/Domestic+Equipment/Rancilio+Epoca+S+1+Tank.html

    Nice looking machine!
    Andy

  5. #5
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    Re: Newbie Here

    Hi tuonov60,

    Have you looked at the ECM giotto at all?

    How many cups of coffee would you do a day?

    What is your budget?

  6. #6
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    Re: Newbie Here

    I know a guy who sells the giotto 8-) ;)

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    Re: Newbie Here

    Quote Originally Posted by Coffeecentral link=1135068391/0#4 date=1135175236
    Hi *tuonov60,

    Have you looked at the ECM giotto at all?

    How many cups of coffee would you do a day?

    What is your budget?
    Like all of us I want to spend as little as I need to but realize quality and operational longevity come at a price. There are deals on the Rancilio Epoca at $2300 presently plus I have to add a grinder into the mix at around $400.
    I have only had a look at the ECM Giotto whilst having a demonstration of the Exobar Minore and as yet have not seen a Diadema in the flesh. My concern with these products is parts back up from these smaller boutique brands as well as coming to terms with their semi-industrial look which surprises me coming from a country where style is primo.
    Regarding the number of cups per day, weekdays would be 8 to 10 and weekends would be double this amount. However, most include latte and cappuccini so steam is important.

  8. #8
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    Re: Newbie Here

    Quote Originally Posted by tuonov60 link=1135068391/0#6 date=1135210494
    Quote Originally Posted by Coffeecentral link=1135068391/0#4 date=1135175236
    Hi *tuonov60,

    Have you looked at the ECM giotto at all?

    How many cups of coffee would you do a day?

    What is your budget?
    Like all of us I want to spend as little as I need to but realize quality and operational longevity come at a price. There are deals on the Rancilio Epoca at $2300 presently plus I have to add a grinder into the mix at around $400.
    I have only had a look at the ECM Giotto whilst having a demonstration of the Exobar Minore and as yet have not seen a Diadema in the flesh. My concern with these products is parts back up from these smaller boutique brands as well as coming to terms with their semi-industrial look which surprises me coming from a country where style is primo.
    Regarding the number of cups per day, weekdays would be 8 to 10 and weekends would be double this amount. However, most include latte and cappuccini so steam is important.
    I couldnt imagine how anyone could be critical of the style of the giotto??? *:o 8-)- is there a better looking machine? Fortunately they perform extremely well also and a Giotto would find your volumes to be a walk in the park.... Parts and service are not an issue- ECM provides outstanding backup to all suppliers and owners...

    Chris

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    Re: Newbie Here

    Quote Originally Posted by tuonov60 link=1135068391/0#2 date=1135115747
    The other thing that comes to mind is the 1700 watt element might not be able to draw from a standard 10 amp GPO.

    http://www.rancilio.com/ita/epoca_e.html
    Im no electrician, but 1700 watts is well inside a circuits capacity. Most portable heaters are around 2400 watts and simply plug into the wall. A 1700 watt device draws only 7 amps. (watts divided by volts = amps). A power point, while specified at 10 amps, has a circuit breaker or fuse of 15 amps.

    Robusto

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    Re: Newbie Here

    I have a BZ-35P and it draws 2800W from a normal 10A power point.

    No problem. I have had it in and running for six months.

    The only problem you can find is if you just have one 20A power circuit which services a number of outlets, it can trip the circuit if you have appliances which draw more than 20A.

    So far it hasnt tripped at all. Anyway it is safe and if you have any problems then, at worse you might have to spend $150 to get an electician to put a separate line back from the power point to the meter box with its own fuse.

    Grant

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    Re: Newbie Here

    Quote Originally Posted by wattgn link=1135068391/0#9 date=1135256168
    I have a BZ-35P and it draws 2800W from a normal 10A power point.
    Grant
    Hi Grant,

    This situation is NOT safe and the problem is not so much related to the Circuit Breaker or Wiring, but the 10 Amp rated Power Outlet and its 10 amp Switch. This situation has the potential to create a fire risk in your home and should be rectified ASAP by a licensed Electrician...... Always play safe is my motto,

    Mal.
    (Dip. Electrical Engineering & Licensed Electrician)

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    Re: Newbie Here

    Good morning,

    with regard to:

    "...My concern with these products is parts back up from these smaller boutique brands..."

    There is no problem here with parts availability of Diadema & ECM brands, dont know about the others you mentioned. The point is they are actually quite conventionally designed machines using commonly available (good quality) components, and this means you are guaranteed a "total package" of known good quality that is reliable, has good parts availability, with very low breakdown rate in any case, for extended periods. Always beware johnnycomelatelies with little history.


    ".....as well as coming to terms with their semi-industrial look which surprises me coming from a country where style is primo....."

    This is subject to individual taste but you have to realise that many actually do seek out the industrial look when looking for a commercial or semi-commercial machine for their home.......but it also explains why for example as in the case of the Diadema & Unico machines, there are actually 5 body styles to choose from for what amounts to the same machine (internally)....so as to cater for a variety of personal tastes.


    "....Regarding the number of cups per day, weekdays would be 8 to 10 and weekends would be double this amount. However, most include latte and cappuccini so steam is important...."

    With this kind of useage (and in terms of capacity) you would have no problem with any of the semi- commercial machines you have mentioned. The size of the boiler is also pretty much irrelevant except perhaps when you are entertaining a large group...which in real terms, is not often.

    What is more important is whether the individual models you look at are simply...good machines or not (in terms of the quality of the product they brew when used by a good operator), THEIR BREAKDOWN RATE and the expectation of their being able to give reliable & long lived good service, and the STANDARD OF BUILD ( because some models dont really look good when seen up close due to ...lack of attention to detail in build & assembly.

    So from the point of view of your questions so far, .........I can guarantee if you take a look at any of the Diadema / Unico machines you will be most satisfied from all angles...as long as you can find a body style that you like. Their 1300 watt rated electrical draw is perfect for use in regular household and office powerpoints.

    Regardz,
    FC.

  13. #13
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    Re: Newbie Here

    Thank you for your responses so far. I have received dimensional information on the Rancilio Epoca and its a beast. It doesnt look like fitting into my regular cafe real estate on the bench, particularly with a grinder next to it. The heights the main problem as there is a gang of three Victorian style light switches above the bench that will end up behind it. So the choice is to find a new area or look into one of the machines being recommended here.
    So the questions are who manufactures the Diadema/Giotto/Exobar and do they have a web site (for technical info.)? Who distributes them in Australia and where are they? Are repairs, if required, a return to retailer or to distributer? I am Melbourne based and so is Rancilio being distributed and serviced by Mocapan in Melbourne.
    Lastly, and this is not be taken as criticism but just an observation I see a lot of Rancilio, Gaggia, Faema, La Cimbali etc in restaurants and cafes but I dont think I have ever seen any of the brands being suggested here. Is there a logical explanation for this?

  14. #14
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    Re: Newbie Here

    Quote Originally Posted by tuonov60 link=1135068391/0#12 date=1135304985
    Lastly, and this is not be taken as criticism but just an observation I see a lot of Rancilio, Gaggia, Faema, La Cimbali etc in restaurants and cafes but I dont think I have ever seen any of the brands being suggested here. Is there a logical explanation for this?
    Probably because those are commercial units and few people have the space for them, or the money for them, nor do they want the increased electrical bill that accompanies with them. :D

    That being said there are quite a few of these machines in use by CS members, myself included. I have a La Cimbali M-28 2-Group and love it. ;D

    Java "Lets hear it for the commercial HXs!" phile

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    Re: Newbie Here

    Quote Originally Posted by tuonov60 link=1135068391/0#12 date=1135304985
    Lastly, and this is not be taken as criticism but just an observation I see a lot of Rancilio, Gaggia, Faema, La Cimbali etc in restaurants and cafes but I dont think I have ever seen any of the brands being suggested here. Is there a logical explanation for this?
    I think youll find that what the domestic and commercial machines you mentioned have in common is the E61 group head assembly.

    The casings and other componentry are variations on the same (or similar) thing. :)

  16. #16
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    Re: Newbie Here

    Quote Originally Posted by tuonov60 link=1135068391/0#12 date=1135304985
    <snip>....
    Lastly, and this is not be taken as criticism but just an observation I see a lot of Rancilio, Gaggia, Faema, La Cimbali etc in restaurants and cafes but I dont think I have ever seen any of the brands being suggested here. Is there a logical explanation for this?
    Perhaps because some of those brands specialise in the prosumer market?? However, there are lots of ECM out there in cafes....Eureka Coffee uses them exclusively.....might be worth a drive to have a look.....

    Im happy to offer a play with my Giotto if youre not too far from town in Melbourne...

    Chris

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    Re: Newbie Here

    Quote Originally Posted by tuonov60 link=1135068391/0#12 date=1135304985
    Thank you for your responses so far. I have received dimensional information on the Rancilio Epoca and its a beast. It doesnt look like fitting into my regular cafe real estate on the bench,
    I see a lot of Rancilio, Gaggia, Faema, La Cimbali etc in restaurants and cafes but I dont think I have ever seen any of the brands being suggested here. Is there a logical explanation for this?
    Well Im a big Cimbali fan (Ive got a Jnr in each house) and there are a few others on this forum as well. The Junior although very heavy isnt that big dimension wise. The pour over model with vibe pump lists around $3k I believe but Im sure this would be negotiable. Interestingly in Aus we seem to get Cimbalis as cheap as or cheaper than in the states, genuine spare parts are pretty expensive though

    best review of them Ive seen can be found here
    http://www.home-barista.com/junior-buyers-guide.html

    Im sure youd be very happy with a giotto, expobar or whatever as they would all be more than capable of any domestic tasks, although if I was buying new Id lean more towards a small commercial unit.

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    Re: Newbie Here

    With regard to your question as to why you do not see the brands we mention here, in cafes in your area, Im afraid you are looking at two completely different markets...

    a) One is the cafe market where business will most usually align themselves with the brand / models that their coffee supplier sells or services. This is for very good business reasons, as any breakdown or service required is most efficiently taken care of by a service provider who is also THE coffee supplier and therefore has a vested interest in providing quick efficient service. The brands most commonly seen, are those that are aligned with the coffee companies with the most market share.......... AND

    b) The other is the home market where no such constraints need to apply and in addition as Chris has mentioned, some of these more commonly seen "brands" do not necessarily get heavily involved in the home market, whilst others do.

    So I am afraid I dont honestly tbnink it is relevant that you (we) dont see Diadema machines or ECM machines commonly in a lot of cafes. What may well be relevant, is that Diadema and others may well be seen in fewer but "better" establishments because perhaps their importers or the coffee roasters with whom they align themselves, are more interested in the quality or more "exclusive" end of the market...or whatever !!!!!!!!

    So to answer some more of your questions:

    My company imports Diadema machines into Australia and I dont think you will find anyone on this site who has one, that has had any bad experiences with us.....in addition if you take a look at the number of posts I have made here and search through a few of them you will see we give excellent before and after sales service, know our stuff, and in may cases, give advice to many people that have bought elsewhere, not just our brand equipment...!

    We have well established service arrangements in Melbourne.

    In any case I am not trying to be facetious when I say, that you will find that if you choose well in buying one of these specialised semi-commercial (or "prosumer" if you wish) machines, it is most unlikely that you will be needing any service any time soon and the backup when needed will usually be prompt, efficient, excellent. My company atleast, benchtests every machine sold directly to an end user and (if necessary) makes adjustments or "tweeks" before repacking and consigning to the client.

    Hope this helps.

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: Newbie Here

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Hello tuonov60 and welcome to the world of home barista!

    regarding Who distributes them in Australia and where are they? Are repairs, if required, a return to retailer or to distributer? I am Melbourne based and so is Rancilio being distributed and serviced by Mocapan in Melbourne

    Like yourself, i live in Melbourne and had recently bought the Minore from Rick Mead of Coffee Lovers:
    http://www.coffeelovers.net.au/html/coffeelovers.html

    I have my machine delivered personally by Rick.

    Im very satisfy with mr. Minore so far.

    Like yourself, i was initially wasnt sure about this Expobar thing - but after i have tasted the coffee produced at a demo - ive decided to go ahead with it. Its solid piece of equipment if not the heaviest in our kitchent! And last but not least, dont forget the Mazzer if youre going to get one of these machines!

    GLuck!



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