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Thread: PID Control Hardware Sourcing.....

  1. #1
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    PID Control Hardware Sourcing.....

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    If you have the PID itch and it needs scratching urgently but dont know where to get the hardware from :-?......

    Wonder no more, as the good folk at OneTemp, a nationally represented company, have stated that they are more than happy to assist CS members to source all the necessary hardware required. Just contact "Jon Lockwood" via e-mail first and mention that you are a CS member. This will ensure that you get the most suitable set of hardware (and very competitive pricing) for your needs with personalised service to boot.

    If you arent particularly technically minded, they also have the personnel and facilities to fit out your machine for you, including setting up and testing. How far you want to go with your mod is entirely up to you in the end as anything is possible.

    I have availed myself of their services in the past as have several other CS members, and can vouch for their very approachable and helpful manner. They can also provide technical assistance should difficulties arise so you are not left "out in the cold" as it were to try and sort things out for yourself. I have no business or personal association with OneTemp or any of their employees and also receive no largess from any business that might come their way by virtue of this recommendation. In short, I have just been a very happy and satisfied customer over the years.

    OneTemps website can be found here...... http://www.onetemp.com.au/. All the best,

    Mal.

  2. #2
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    Re: PID Control Hardware Sourcing.....

    Great post Mal, I am sure many CSers will find this information very useful as I have. I too can vouch for the service and support of OneTemp.

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: PID Control Hardware Sourcing.....

    Yep,

    Theyre a good outfit for sure,

    Mal.

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    Re: PID Control Hardware Sourcing.....

    What kind of hardware should I be asking about?
    I sent an email to Onetemp but received no reply, maybe I wasnt specific enough with what I wanted.
    Does the gear change from machine to machine? (I have a brasilia lady)

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    Re: PID Control Hardware Sourcing.....

    I got a reply from onetemp and they were very helpful. They put me onto an electrician who could then fit the PID. He was great, came to my home, checked out the machine and was happy to do it. He told me he would contact me with a final quote, but then I never heard from him?!

    I made a follow up call, he told me he was busy and would get back to me . .. and to this day I still wait. (This was about over a month ago).

    :o

  6. #6
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: PID Control Hardware Sourcing.....

    Quote Originally Posted by frad link=1150361903/0#3 date=1156366661
    What kind of hardware should I be asking about? I sent an email to Onetemp but received no reply, maybe I wasnt specific enough with what I wanted. Does the gear change from machine to machine? (I have a brasilia lady)
    Hi frad,

    No, the type of hardware doesnt change with the type of espresso machine you have, its the actual application that determines that, i.e. PID Temperature Management in a small boiler.

    Im surprised that no-one got back to you, have never struck that myself. Try sending another query e-mail to this address and Im sure he WILL get back to you... ron.fowler@onetemp.com.au. All the best....

    Quote Originally Posted by zecc link=1150361903/0#4 date=1156393662
    He told me he would contact me with a final quote, but then I never heard from him?!
    I made a follow up call, he told me he was busy and would get back to me . .. and to this day I still wait. (This was about over a month ago). :o
    Hi zecc,

    Hmmm, thats a bit poor alright but I dont think that this is a OneTemp problem obviously. Unfortunately, a PID Controller installation into an espresso machine is quite a small fiddly job and in terms of value for time, doesnt represent good value for the sparky whose time is probably more valuably spent on the BIG jobs. No excuses though, he should have told you straight up if there was going to be a timing issue.

    Another alternative that might be worth trying, if you have a TAFE College somewhere nearby, is to ask them if they teach Instrumentation Techs and if so, would they be interested in a small project for their charges in the form of installing and setting up a controller in your machine. My experience has generally been that TAFE College Instructors/Lecturers will jump at real world opportunities like this, even though it represents a very small job it will contain many of the criterion to be found in larger jobs and therefore represents a significant education opportunity.

    And, you benefit by having the job performed to a very high standard and checked/tested by an experienced industry professional. Win, win all round if it can be done. Otherwise, I guess you will have to light a fire under the guy who promised to do it for you in the first place, or locate someone else to do the job for you :(. All the best,

    Mal.

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    Re: PID Control Hardware Sourcing.....

    Thanks mal, Ill give him a go.

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    Re: PID Control Hardware Sourcing.....

    Quote Originally Posted by zecc link=1150361903/0#4 date=1156393662
    I got a reply from onetemp and they were very helpful. They put me onto an electrician who could then fit the PID. He was great, came to my home, checked out the machine and was happy to do it. He told me he would contact me with a final quote, but then I never heard from him?!

    I made a follow up call, he told me he was busy and would get back to me . .. and to this day I still wait. (This was about over a month ago).

    :o
    Only a month that is like an hour in terms of getting a sparky to come and do a fiddly job. I would like to work as a no job too small or fiddly sparky would make a bloody fortune. As for the rest of the untrustworty mongrels you will have to wait. I got one to come and run cable for my pool this time last year, coming back the next day to hook it all up and attach the weather proof GPOs. Did it my self two weeks later and am still waiting for this useless twit to turn up to finish the job. Ha Ha I guess I get the last laugh cause he has stopped sending me a bill for the never completed job.

  9. #9
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Re: PID Control Hardware Sourcing.....

    Glad you got it done Neil and didnt have to pay the dodgy guy.


    shameless sponsor plug goes here
    ;)

    If you are looking to do this to a Silvia I would recomend having a chat with Jim.

    PID Kits
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1164285573

    Even if it was for another type of machine, Im sure he could offer some tips on what to avoid in a PID too.

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    Re: PID Control Hardware Sourcing.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Freeman link=1150361903/0#8 date=1165411843
    Glad you got it done Neil and didnt have to pay the dodgy guy.


    shameless sponsor plug goes here
    ;)

    If you are looking to do this to a Silvia I would recomend having a chat with Jim.

    PID Kits
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1164285573

    Even if it was for another type of machine, Im sure he could offer some tips on what to avoid in a PID too.
    I just want to vouch for some good service - I recently ordered a PID kit from Jim, and was very impressed with the help I got ... he answered a lot of queries (some silly, some not so silly), and kept us informed through the whole process. Promised us 5 weeks delivery - I think it turned up in around 3 - so we were impressed with that - given its coming from the US.

    We have yet to install it ... its a christmas present ...


  11. #11
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    Re: PID Control Hardware Sourcing.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Freeman link=1150361903/0#8 date=1165411843
    If you are looking to do this to a Silvia I would recomend having a chat with Jim.

    PID Kits
    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1164285573

    Even if it was for another type of machine, Im sure he could offer some tips on what to avoid in a PID too.
    Yep,

    I wholeheartedly support Jim of PID Kits too.... He knows his stuff and is very conscientious about "getting it right" from the start. Plus, he has a wealth of practical experience and knowledge that he is willing to share with the dedicated DIY-ers among us to help get the job done properly,

    Mal.

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    Re: PID Control Hardware Sourcing.....

    Myrtle - As I have written here before, CSers are consistently among the friendliest customers we interact with. Thanks for the kind words, and I think you will enjoy the enhancement to your machine.

    Mal - Thanks for providing input and advice along the way. I am still pondering your concerns with the 150C boiler temp setting on Silvia ;-}

    Jim

  13. #13
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    Re: PID Control Hardware Sourcing.....

    Quote Originally Posted by PIDKits link=1150361903/0#11 date=1165534274
    Mal - Thanks for providing input and advice along the way.
    Youre more than welcome Jim :)

    Quote Originally Posted by PIDKits link=1150361903/0#11 date=1165534274
    I am still pondering your concerns with the 150C boiler temp setting on Silvia ;-}
    It is very high in my view Jim.

    As I was trying to explain before, with the original t/stat controlling the Boiler, the resulting 150 C peak temperature was as a result of overshoot from the accumulated thermal inertia present within the element and immediate layers of water surrounding the element. As a guide, there are no HX or Dual Boiler machines with the "steam" related temperature setpoint(s) adjusted as high as this. For example, most HX machines have the p/stat set at between 1.0 and 1.2 BAR (2.0 and 2.2 BAR Absolute) which relates to a nominal temperature setpoint of just over 123 C (Chart reference here).

    As I mentioned in a previous post, starting with a PID Steam Setpoint of 130 C and elevating it from there until a steady-state boiler temperature during stretching of 125 C could be maintained, I discovered that a Setpoint of 135 C with the Mokita Boiler (which is very close to the same design and volume of the Silvia Boiler and uses a very similar rated Heating Element) achieved this equilibrium. Given all these facts, a PID Steam Setpoint in the region of 150 C is grossly unnecessary and WILL accelerate the deterioration of various internal wiring insulation and components, for no real performance benefit. There just isnt any positive outcome for this scenario.

    You have to remember that the 150 C temps measured on a Silvia Boiler with t/stat control, are PEAK temps only, not continuous operating temps. Why subject the Silvia internals to more distress than is actually required or desired? It will cause problems in the long run Im sure. Hope this helps,

    Cheers mate,
    Mal.

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    Re: PID Control Hardware Sourcing.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal link=1150361903/0#12 date=1165550112
    ...snip....

    As I was trying to explain before, with the original t/stat controlling the Boiler, the resulting 150 C peak temperature was as a result of overshoot from the accumulated thermal inertia present within the element and immediate layers of water surrounding the element.

    ...snip....

    You have to remember that the 150 C temps measured on a Silvia Boiler with t/stat control, are PEAK temps only, not continuous operating temps....snip....
    It is actually a little worse than you think. The tstat "off" point on a stock machine is frequently right at, or slightly above, 150C. Then it overshoots another 10C beyond that. So a peak temp of 160C is not out of the question.

    Hopefully, nobody will leave their machine in steam mode. But if they did, a typical stock machine would probably cycle between 125C and 155C, with an effective average of around 140C.

    Im not arguing the merits of the stock tstat being set this high, just pointing out what I have measured. You make excellent points in favor of a lower PID steam setpoint, though.

    Jim

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: PID Control Hardware Sourcing.....

    No worries Jim :),

    Just speaking from personal experience, not unfounded regurgitated technobabble ;)

    Mal.

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    Re: PID Control Hardware Sourcing.....

    I need a PID for my electric oven....wanting to control my heating elements so there is no more hysteresis seen with my current thermostat and thermocouple readings.

    Any cheap ones around? After all...PIDs were made for ovens in the first place :P

  17. #17
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: PID Control Hardware Sourcing.....

    Hi WS,

    I think I provided you with a link to source this kind of info in one of your threads about the ROR.... Notwithstanding this, if you have a look at the head of this thread, youll see a reference to the same site,

    Cheers,
    Mal.

  18. #18
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: PID Control Hardware Sourcing.....

    Check your personal messages.
    -Robusto

  19. #19
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    Re: PID Control Hardware Sourcing.....

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Off topic replies have been moved to [link=http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1168551121]This Thread[/link]



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