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Thread: la Cimbali m27_start(c2) * 220v monophase

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    la Cimbali m27_start(c2) * 220v monophase

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    L.S>
    Recently became owner of a La Cimbali M27 start 2 group machine wich has been previously operated at 380volts. On the inside of the left cabinet door was originally a plastic sticker showing a diagram for the machines mains connection.
    Very unfortunately its been cleaned with some detergent ,so the diagrams has become unreadable.

    The 5 wire mains cable is already changed now for monophase 220v use and the machine came alive well when hooked up at 220v mains, pumps starting ,waters flowing etc...
    My problem now is to find out how the heater element has to be rewired for 220v use ,as that part of diagram doesnt help me out anymore . Can anyone send me a diagram or a good picture how to connect the wires *properly to the resistor? *I think that the connections will be the same for a 2 group m28,29,32 but its very hard to find any tech information about M series La Cimbalis on internet. Many thanks in advance.
    see for a pic : * * *http://cimbali.yafro.com/photo/11677347

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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: la Cimbali m27_start(c2)   220v monophase

    I dont know if theyre the same wiring or not, but I have the manual for the La Cimbali M-29 as well as an M-29 Basic 2-group, so if you cant find the info you need anyplace else let me know and Ill send you a scan of the wiring diagram in the manual or a pic of the decal on the inside of my machine.

    Java "Cimbalis Rock!" phile

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    Re: la Cimbali m27_start(c2) * 220v monophase

    Tnx for the manual of the M28 ,it has been very usefull.

    The 27 only in small detail differs from the 28 .
    after removing the bridgewires and finding the 3 wires hiddenin the socket it was a walk in the park.

    Left group has pressure and functions well, the right group needs to be cleaned in the plumming as it has some blockage somewhere down the line.
    Not that strange as it hadnt been used for over 3years

    In position1 everything heats up normal,in position2 theres still a buildup of overpressure,though the pressure indicator is not responsive and the topvent keeps blowing softly. The green front indicator light remains off ,but hot water section now working also.

    http://cimbali.yafro.com/
    As you can see im missing one smal plastic grille from the coffeecup rack and one of the small size RVS/Inox grilles for the drain ...anyone still has those lying around?

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    Re: la Cimbali m27_start(c2) * 220v monophase

    :DAnother day of probing...found out one of the ulka pumps made bad contact ,propably the previous tech jerked the wires too hard and stuck em in loose at one side .. After some tries could open te metal housing to get to the spool to resolder a new wire as the pump itself looked still new..tricky job , but was able to repair the pump *and it runs ok now *http://cimbali.yafro.com/
    Was lucky to solve the pressure problem by accident , after ticking at the housing of the pressostat it popped loose and immediately the steaming stopped . machine now behaves stabile...but still couldnt get the pressure indicator working. Anyone has some ideas for me to look at ? *
    Opened *up the solenoid on the right group and took it apart , cleaned it *and remounted it but still no good water runthrough so have to check for that *elsewhere also. Tried a sample coffee from the left group and wasnt too unhappy about what came out ... *:P

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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: la Cimbali m27_start(c2)   220v monophase

    Theres in-line filters and jets for each group that have to be replaced occassionally. Theyre contained inside the part labeled Injector in the hydraulic circuit in your manual. Theyre pretty cheap, the last time I bought them they were a couple bucks.

    Java "Hhhmmm...Cimbali" phile

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    Re: la Cimbali m27_start(c2)   220v monophase

    Quote Originally Posted by Javaphile link=1151581530/0#1 date=1151612615
    I dont know if theyre the same wiring or not, but I have the manual for the La Cimbali M-29 as well as an M-29 Basic 2-group, so if you cant find the info you need anyplace else let me know and Ill send you a scan of the wiring diagram in the manual or a pic of the decal on the inside of my machine.

    Java "Cimbalis Rock!" phile
    Im restoring a M20 2-group -- also converting from 3 phase to single.... but I dont think there are any changes required to the heater.....???? Looks like this is part of the switch wiring changes for this model.

    Any chance of getting a copy of the M-29 wiring diagram to compare?

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    Re: la Cimbali m27_start(c2)   220v monophase

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaB link=1151581530/0#5 date=1152687567
    Any chance of getting a copy of the M-29 wiring diagram to compare?
    Fired off via email to ya.

    Java "Share the data!" phile

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    Re: la Cimbali m27_start(c2)   220v monophase

    Quote Originally Posted by Javaphile link=1151581530/0#6 date=1152689440
    Quote Originally Posted by JavaB link=1151581530/0#5 date=1152687567
    Any chance of getting a copy of the M-29 wiring diagram to compare?
    Fired off via email to ya.

    Java "Share the data!" phile
    Thanks for that.

    Yep, looks like a different beastie alright. The connections on the M20 are 3 phase with neutral, 2 phase with neutral and single phase (and only star connection - no delta like the 27/28) :-/

    Looks like there is always one side of all 3 heater elements tied to the neutral - so heres hoping when I finish the cleaning job... all goes well!

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    Re: la Cimbali m27_start(c2) * 220v monophase

    Thanks again Java for the tip about the injector..
    Opened it this morning and found there was calcium there...after cleaning there was still no water on second group , changed the pumps from group 1 to group 2 and started to get little water out of the head after cross connecting the water outlets from pump 1 to group 2and vice versa *as an experiment .
    Could now backflush with second group for descale and have that running too . The pressure indicator seems to have a torn copper joint at the backside , so hope to have the indicator fixed soon also .
    All in all consider myself very lucky to have stumbled over this dinosaur as a replacement for my Ellimatic, considering the previous owner considered it scrapmetal

    Hope U have succes ,too JavaB with your m20 *

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    Re: la Cimbali m27_start(c2)   220v monophase

    After I aquired my Cimbali M-28 I was so excited to get it up and running that I spent 4 virtually sleepless days tearing it completely apart and doing a complete cleaning and rebuild of it. Theres a shot of the inside of the boiler prior to descaling and one of the machine stripped down with just a couple of pieces left to be removed here: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1103091005/1#1 That was done almost 2 years ago and it has worked flawlessly since pulling about 20 doubles a day on it except during the hot months when I drink CP exclusively.

    When a crowd is over I have no problem keeping up as many espressos/lattes as people want as the machine is more than capable of non-stop continuous brewing and steaming.

    Java "Gotta love Cimbalis!" phile

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    Re: la Cimbali m27_start(c2) * 220v monophase

    Your pic of the boiler of your m28 got me worried ...sofar avoided to face the possobility that my machine could be like that inside I had a laugh...so stripped it again now...took out the element and yea ..it is stone-age in there . the water softener wich I got with the machine must have been there for display purposes only I had a laugh
    There was about 1 cm of blackened calcium on the element itself and ..well who knows how much inside the boiler..my estimate will be about 1 kg :-) *peeled out some huge chunks already
    Luckily the heater element is still very usable , still looked okay under all the rubble.
    No wonder the hydrolics lines got stuffed every time!

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    Re: la Cimbali m27_start(c2)   220v monophase

    When a crowd is over I have no problem keeping up as many espressos/lattes as people want as the machine is more than capable of non-stop continuous brewing and steaming.

    Java "Gotta love Cimbalis!" phile[/QUOTE]




    What pressure do you run the boiler at?

    Mine is set at about 1 bar at the moment- and seems to produce more than enough steam!!

    Just waiting for the new group gaskets to arrive and all is good (the old ones were rock hard and if you were tarzan you could get the PF to seal - just.)

    Cant wait to give her a run.


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    Re: la Cimbali m27_start(c2)   220v monophase

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaB link=1151581530/0#11 date=1153363667
    What pressure do you run the boiler at?

    Mine is set at about 1 bar at the moment- and seems to produce more than enough steam!!
    Dead smack in the middle of the green zone at 1.2 bar. The older Cimbalis (Mine is about 12 years old) were set to run at 1.2 bar, while the newer ones are apparently set at 1-1.1 bar.

    I imagine that with its huge boiler 1 bar produces more than enough steam power for home use applications. The only potential down-side to the lower pressure that I can see would be the recovery time of the grouphead during times of heavy use and its initial starting temp.

    Ive been toying with dropping my boiler pressure to see what difference it makes in the cup as it seems 1.2 bar seems a tad high. The recovery time on the grouphead while pulling doubles is measured in seconds. Even using a doser grinder the grouphead will have recovered from the previous shot and be ready for the next one as fast as you can prep the basket.

    Due to their commercial application design and their massive brass groupheads Cimbalis require a rather large series of cooling flushes before each pull in the home environment. With as little as 30 seconds between pulls you may have to do a few seconds cooling flush.

    The regimen that works with the peculiarities of my system is to do an 8-10 second flush, then weigh out and grind the beans, then a 5 second flush as I grab the portafilter, a quick dosing and tamp and lock it on and go. If anything slows down my usual fast tamp I flush for 2 or 3 seconds before locking on the portafilter.

    Each machine has its own little quirks including the environment its set up in and only via experimentation will you find what works best for you and your machine.

    Just waiting for the new group gaskets to arrive and all is good (the old ones were rock hard and if you were tarzan you could get the PF to seal - just.)
    With new gaskets you can seal them tight with just fingertip pressure. :) Be careful of over-tightning them. Theyll seal at a lot lower resistance than the old ones.

    If you havent already take this opportunity of having the gaskets off to do a thourough cleaning job under them where they seal against the grouphead. Youll be surprised at how much gunk can accumulate in there.

    Java "Drives a tank named Cimbali" phile

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    Re: la Cimbali m27_start(c2)   220v monophase

    Quote Originally Posted by Javaphile link=1151581530/0#12 date=1153387116


    Dead smack in the middle of the green zone at 1.2 bar. The older Cimbalis (Mine is about 12 years old) were set to run at 1.2 bar, while the newer ones are apparently set at 1-1.1 bar.
    Thanks for the info.

    Mine is about 17 years old and the previous owner (owner of a cafe in Perth) was always asked at service time if there was enough pressure... so it probably is a little low (but he liked it as it was)... :)

    My gauge has as range from 1 to 1.8 bar (after 1.8 it becomes red) Certainly wouldnt want to set it that high!!

    Re the gunk behind the group gasket.... yep found it alright!!
    Was diificult to get the group clamp arrangement - held by three bolts- off because of all the escaped grounds and coffee oils locking it in place.... after removal what a mess (getting new spacers as well)...

    When I told the previous owner that I intended to replace the gaskets, he said they had only been replaced a short time ago at the last service - guess he was probably charged for new ones.... but!!

    Generally the outside was very well maintained.... but had a truckload of grounds, coffee oils etc inside!! Always been used on a water softener which has been regularly recharged.

    Its all looking pretty good now inside and out.... so cant wait!

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    Re: la Cimbali m27_start(c2)   220v monophase

    Quote Originally Posted by Javaphile link=1151581530/0#12 date=1153387116


    I imagine that with its huge boiler 1 bar produces more than enough steam power for home use applications. The only potential down-side to the lower pressure that I can see would be the recovery time of the grouphead during times of heavy use and its initial starting temp.


    The regimen that works with the peculiarities of my system is to do an 8-10 second flush, then weigh out and grind the beans, then a 5 second flush as I grab the portafilter, a quick dosing and tamp and lock it on and go. If anything slows down my usual fast tamp I flush for 2 or 3 seconds before locking on the portafilter.



    Java "Drives a tank named Cimbali" phile
    Well its now up and works beautifully... (took a while for the plumbing etc :( - and LOTS of steam even at 1.1 Bar

    Tried your cooling off proceedure and it works well... Still have to get the grind and tamp "just right".... but even the first attempt was fantastic....

    Been using a solis sl90 (with non pressurised baskets) and even though the coffee from that was fantastic - the wife thinks the Cimballi is better!!!

    So everyone is happy.


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    Re: la Cimbali m27_start(c2)   220v monophase

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Glad its all working out for ya! Congrats and welcome to the Cimbali family! :)

    Java "Hhhhmmm...Cimbali!" phile



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