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Thread: HX units in Melbourne

  1. #1
    Ren
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    HX units in Melbourne

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all,

    I have read some good reviews of the following machines, but am having trouble finding a distributor or retailer in Melbourne.
    Does anyone know where I can find the following units?
    1. La Scala Butterfly
    2. Quickmill Andreja Premium
    3. Isomac Millennium

    thanks
    Ren

  2. #2
    LiquidHeaven
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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    TalkCoffee 2muchcoffeman... hes good...
    Check the sponsors

    Also without talking and using the machines Id avoid narrowing down the field too early.

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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    Yep, check with Chris (TalkCoffee) or if youre after the La Scala try Alan Frew.

    NB: Alan is NOT a Site Sponsor so free plugs for him and his business are not appreciated. We all respect his knowledge of the industry and frequently refer members to some of his articles and reviews, and this is where it should end really....

    Mal.

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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    Hi Ren,

    A lot of those machines are, or were, popular in the US. That would mean that the reviews that you read might well have been for 110V machines.

    The isomac millennium seems to have been dropped by most of the US retailers due to quality issues. The quickmill andreja premium is a special upgrade of the standard andreja, which is what we get down here. Personally, I think that there are much better machines for the money than the standard Andreja. The Giotto Premium has very similar stats to the Andreja Premium, but, personally, I have had better espresso out of the diadema machines than the giotto.

    It looks like you have been led up the garden path a bit by reading lots of US-based reviews; your machine selections seem to be completely different from your last thread!

    Cheers,

    Luca

  5. #5
    Ren
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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    Thanks Luca,

    my top 3 units are still the Giotto, VBM Domobar and Expobar Minore, but I thought I should also checkout the Quickmill brand also.

    The Giotto is the best looking unit, but lacks a brew press guage and ideally a temp readout like the Minore. The Minore has all the features but the huge black feet looks bad. The VBM is a nice balance, but Im disappointed the Australian model comes without the small light to indicate water is low.

    Then on the other hand, I need to consider my wife who just whats to press a button.

    Im confused!!

  6. #6
    Senior Member Lovey's Avatar
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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    Gday Ren,
    the most important thing is that you have to be happy with your purchase. Youre going to spend a lot of time looking at it and using it, so make sure you like it, its feet included ;).
    If you like the Minore and its got the features you like (except for the ugly feet of course), get it. Im sure you could get some nicer replacement feet, or get some machined for you.
    Im sure this has been mentioned ad-infinitum, but make sure you have good service back up for the machine. If something goes wrong with it, you want some one who will help you out. The site sponsors excell at this, hence the numerous recommendations that people give them :).
    As for your wife, maybe you could do a barista course together and she can learn the joys of having a coffee prepared by her very own hands, rather than relying on a machine. That takes all the fun out of it ;D.
    Good luck with it.

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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    Quote Originally Posted by Ren link=1156854772/0#4 date=1156858706

    Then on the other hand, I need to consider my wife who just whats to press a button.

    Im confused!!
    I know what you mean ::)

    I just make myself "on call" for coffees as required! ;)

    The difference in quality between coffee produced by a relatively manual machine (including an "auto") and a superauto - press the button machine- is huge...

    Its a bit like comparing coffee produced by a plunger (with quality fresh ground beans) and instant coffee.....

    A good quality manual machine will last you a lifetime - the same cant be said of the superautos.... too many fiddly bits- too much to go wrong.

    So if you can go down the manual route.... both your taste buds (and your wallet when you look at total cost of ownership - over a few years) will appreciate your choice.

    Take your wife to a shop which will demonstrate a superauto (including give you a taste of the product :() and then go to a local site sponsor and try a coffee from a manual! :)

    Im sure your wife will be convinced. I know mine was (enough to allow me to buy and install the La Cimbali in "her" kitchen!) ;D

  8. #8
    TC
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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovey link=1156854772/0#5 date=1156903212
    Gday Ren,
    the most important thing is that you have to be happy with your purchase. Youre going to spend a lot of time looking at it and using it, so make sure you like it, its feet included *;).
    If you like the Minore and its got the features you like (except for the ugly feet of course), get it. Im sure you could get some nicer replacement feet, or get some machined for you.
    Im sure this has been mentioned ad-infinitum, but make sure you have good service back up for the machine. If something goes wrong with it, you want some one who will help you out. The site sponsors excell at this, hence the numerous recommendations that people give them *:).
    As for your wife, maybe you could do a barista course together and she can learn the joys of having a coffee prepared by her very own hands, rather than relying on a machine. That takes all the fun out of it *;D.
    Good luck with it.
    Agreed Ren- good to be careful with this type of purchase....

    FYI the Minore II demo is still on the bench and is for sale now at a fantastic discount...

    2mcm

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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    2 cents worth from Moi: As a Minore II owner, I have to say that it is fantastic and I chose it over an ECM machine because of the temp and pressure gauges and the MONSTER drip tray which really minimises drippy trips to the sink. *:P These features sold me, and I dont have an aesthetics issue with the industrial leg design.

    My partner has a coffee snob palate, but had no technical experience in making coffee, yet the mano very competently operates the machina (when I am not guarding my territory!) and has no problems pulling a decent shot and microfoaming. The operation of these machines is relatively simple, and im sure the coffee she will learn to make on a manual machine will push all of her buttons. *;)

    If it is a HX in Melbourne you are after, I bought my Brewtus from 2MCM/ Talk Coffee, I recommend going in and trying out the machines with your wife, so you have a relative basis of comparison and*she is involved in the purchase from the start - less compromising to do later *::) *Having your vendor in proximity is always going to be an advantage over the life of the machine.

    Polly

  10. #10
    LiquidHeaven
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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    Agree with all the above.
    Trust me after they see and taste what a good machine does best, they will love it. They are very sexy, far more so than a push a button, females go for looks most of the time (except with their fine selection of men)... or thered be no fashion industry :D

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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    Quote Originally Posted by LiquidHeaven link=1156854772/0#9 date=1156906981
    Females go for looks most of the time (except with their fine selection of men)... or thered be no fashion industry *:D
    LiquidHeaven - with the greatest of respect, there are quite a few women on this forum, and while I realise this comment is an attempt at humour, I find it fairly offensive to be portrayed as a superficial idiot because I am a female. Last time I checked, the money I spent on high end prosumer equiptment and the skills I apply to it are as valid as if I had a penis. * :-?

    CSers on this forum pride themselves, from the comments ive read in my time here, on being friendly and inclusive - perhaps everyone can be a bit mindful of the gals when posting comments which make us a sum of our parts!

    Polly

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    TC
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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    Quote Originally Posted by Baristacrat link=1156854772/0#10 date=1156908814
    Quote Originally Posted by LiquidHeaven link=1156854772/0#9 date=1156906981
    Females go for looks most of the time (except with their fine selection of men)... or thered be no fashion industry *:D
    LiquidHeaven - with the greatest of respect, there are quite a few women on this forum, and while I realise this comment is an attempt at humour, I find it fairly offensive to be portrayed as a superficial idiot because I am a female. Last time I checked, the money I spent on high end prosumer equiptment and the skills I apply to it are as valid as if I had a penis. * :-?

    CSers on this forum pride themselves, from the comments ive read in my time here, on being friendly and inclusive - perhaps everyone can be a bit mindful of the gals when posting comments which make us a sum of our parts!

    Polly
    ....which is a good reminder to all to ensure that the brain is engaged before putting the mouth into gear... ;)

    CS is very much enhanced by the fact that its not just a boys club...We have many female members who bring a wealth of knowledge and experience to us and the forum is all the better for diversity- of bits and of opinion....

    Lets ensure that we play nice.... ;)

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    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    Quote Originally Posted by Baristacrat link=1156854772/0#10 date=1156908814
    Quote Originally Posted by LiquidHeaven link=1156854772/0#9 date=1156906981
    Females go for looks most of the time (except with their fine selection of men)... or thered be no fashion industry :D


    LiquidHeaven - with the greatest of respect, there are quite a few women on this forum, and while I realise this comment is an attempt at humour, I find it fairly offensive to be portrayed as a superficial idiot because I am a female. Last time I checked, the money I spent on high end prosumer equiptment and the skills I apply to it are as valid as if I had a penis. :-?

    CSers on this forum pride themselves, from the comments ive read in my time here, on being friendly and inclusive - perhaps everyone can be a bit mindful of the gals when posting comments which make us a sum of our parts!

    Polly
    Well said Polly,

    You have my support and that of the vast majority of the membership Im sure,

    Mal.

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    Senior Member Lovey's Avatar
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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    How did you go Ren?
    Have you managed to narrow down your selection at all?
    Were all excited, another one in the trap ;)

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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    Nice turn of phrase Polly...a well reasoned argument ;)

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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    Polly, I also took exception to this comment. Youve said everything I would have, probably a little more politely :D

  17. #17
    TC
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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    FYI all- The mods spoke with this member about his conduct....Sadly, it would appear that he has chosen to discontinue membership...

    I think we can resume service with the non-sexist, supportive community that CS has always been *:)

    I say lets close the discussion about that matter now and resume the actual thread ;).

    Ren had a chat this week and I think hes planning a visit sometime soon 8-)

    2mcm

  18. #18
    Ren
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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    Posted by: Lovey Posted on: Today at 11:19
    How did you go Ren?
    Have you managed to narrow down your selection at all?
    Were all excited, another one in the trap * *


    Hi Lovey,

    I have narrowed it down to three machines (Giotto, Minore & Domobar Super).

    Giotto: it would be nice if it had a brew press guage, indicator light for low water level and larger spill tray.

    Minore: a liitle concerned about the Spanish build quality and energy consumption heating 2 x 1500 boilers and finally the looks.

    Domobar Super: seems very good on paper, looks is second behind the Giotto, but concerned about very little information on it and only one retailer in Melb.

    Would love to here from anyone with any of these three models and there experiences..

    Ren

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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    Not in Melbourne, but maybe helpful.

    We have been through a similar exercise recently. We eventually bought an
    Isomac Mondiale, which does have a dual pressure gauge, and a drip dray
    of good size and larger surface area. It doesnt have a low water level light,
    but the reservoir is very easlily accessed, so *I just top it up after every use.
    And we liked its slightly quirky look.

    We looked at Expobar (not Minore though): ruled it out partly because my wife
    was concerned with build, but mostly because the local sales outlet could not
    competently demonstrate it.

    Which brings me to what I think is the most important point. The machine we
    bought was from a vendor that we have known for years, has helped us with
    several generations of *machines that one could say had seen better days, and
    (more to the point) had this machine and several others set up, running at correct
    temp, with good grinders, so that we could see them working, taste the results,
    and try them out. People that we could trust to help iron out problems and give
    advice on getting the best out of the machine.

    That I think is at least as important as the technical aspects of the machine itself.
    All of these will make excellent coffee!

  20. #20
    TC
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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    Quote Originally Posted by hazbean link=1156854772/15#18 date=1157246136
    Not in Melbourne, but maybe helpful.

    We have been through a similar exercise recently. We eventually bought an
    Isomac Mondiale, which does have a dual pressure gauge, and a drip dray
    of good size and larger surface area. It doesnt have a low water level light,
    but the reservoir is very easlily accessed, so *I just top it up after every use.
    And we liked its slightly quirky look.

    We looked at Expobar (not Minore though): ruled it out partly because my wife
    was concerned with build, but mostly because the local sales outlet could not
    competently demonstrate it.

    Which brings me to what I think is the most important point. The machine we
    bought was from a vendor that we have known for years, has helped us with
    several generations of *machines that one could say had seen better days, and
    (more to the point) had this machine and several others set up, running at correct
    temp, with good grinders, so that we could see them working, taste the results,
    and try them out. People that we could trust to help iron out problems and give
    advice on getting the best out of the machine.

    That I think is at least as important as the technical aspects of the machine itself.
    All of these will make excellent coffee!
    Good to see that youre doing your homework Ren.

    I have no experience of the Vibiemme but FC mentioned that he thought that there were issues with service with this machine. Both the Giotto and the Minore II are great machines- though so far, the Giotto has far fewer build "issues" than the Minore II. The mondiale has a stainless steel boiler- like the synesso. For me, the arrangement of the school tap on or off of the wand controls was quirky, but not neccessarily functional. I had expressed interest in the mondiale but the importers are not inclined to have a CS sponsor selling them.

    I believe that there were some issues with stainless steel boilers (of some commercial machines) pitting and then becoming holed with the water in the Blue Mountains. Id suggest a search on this one.

    Having sold a few Minore II now, I have come to understand that a simple bench test is not enough. I am now lifting the hood on every one I sell to check all conections- electrical and water- in addition to running a full pump and boiler pressure calibration.

    My one concern with the Minore is that the temp controller is located fairly close to the boiler. I see that this may be a cause of failures down the track....however its inexpensive and easily replaced... I expect that some owners will eventually attempt to PID this machine.

    As for the other queries, I wouldnt worry too much about a "brew pressure gauge". In all of the prosumer machines I have bench tested so far (and also my Veneziano for that matter), the gauge gives only an indication of pump pressure. They will often read 1-1.5 bar above actual grouphead pressure. This is why we use a portafilter pressure gauge and adjust pump pressure so that its correct at grouphead- regardless of what the gauge on the machine might read.

    A low water light might be a consideration but you will find that its not an issue. Many just top up their machines each day and that eliminates that issue.

    The important thing is to buy from a competent supplier who will bench test your machine, make any neccessary adjustments and who will be there for you throughout the ownership experience, not just to take your money and help you to put the machine in the boot of the car...Then its up to you to learn to be consistent in how you use your machine and to get the best from it...

    Chris

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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    Hi Ren,

    Ive watched this thread from the onset but in the interests of professionalilty have kept out of it.

    Its gone on long enough now I think, for me to respectfully butt in and state my own case...

    Let me declare first my own interest as the importer of Diadema Junior & Unico Splendor machines which I think you seriously should have a look at. If you already have and simply dont like the looks, so be it! However whilst the other machines you mentioned have only one body style each, ours have 4 body styles to chosse from. Thats great for clients as well as for us as thats three more choices than the others give.

    I made up a comparison of important inclusions between our machines & others competing in the same market sector, for another thread a few weeks ago...dont know whether you saw it so here it is:

    ".....................

    There are quite a few happy Junior / Splendor owners in the CS group however if you need a little extra convincing about the exceptional standard of these machines, check out the following:

    They come standard with *
    • deep commercial filters (some others only come with the smaller Italian market filters)
    • blind filter (some others dont supply this)
    • small tub of group head cleaner (others don’t supply)
    • group head brush (some others dont supply this)
    • reasonable quality plastic coffee tamper (others supply totally incorrect tamper)
    • a sizeable water softener / anti scaling filter in the water reservoir (others have either no filter or only a gauze particle filter with no anti scale action)
    • a spring loaded low level switch underneath the water reservoir that stops the machine pumping and switches the element off when there is not enough water in the water tank. This switch will always operate no matter what type of water is used in the machine because it only works on the principal of weight (whilst some others use low level sensors that will not operate when certain types of filtered / treated water are used) * *
    • low level probe in the boiler (this ensures that when the water level drops below the probe the electric element is deactivated and does not burn out, and pump also de-activates. Some others use a re-settable high temperature thermostat instead for the purpose, but this is a real hassle to get to inside the body if it’s tripped, and by the time it goes off the element may already have been burned out).
    • a “return” on the face plate of the Junior Plus to direct splash back into the drip tray (the others dont, resulting in splash back by-passing the drip tray and leaking straight down to the bench
    • substantial anodized steel and stainless steel chassis (corrosion resistant). *Some others have only painted steel chassis.
    • much much better standard of internal build
    • exceptional standard of external finish and,
    deep, large, well secured drip tray.

    .............."

    Our machines also suffer less of the service problems we have found to exist in some others, either where simply, the standard of design & build is not as good OR, *where compromises in the standard of build have been made to accomodate fancy looking bodies.

    If you are going to see 2mcm, ask him to show you one of ours as well....it cant hurt.

    For the rest of it a water pressure guage is not a necessary inclusion and most semi commercial machines dont have one. Most clients (whether they be commercial or domestic clients) dont know what it (the pressure reading) means and if they did, woudnt know what to do with it. If you specifically want the gauge however, thats a different story! A low water light is nice but depending on what manufactuyrer and which model, you sometimes find that even when they are fitted, you might not be able to see it when its on as they can be quite dim. Whether it can be seen or not however, once the low water circuit is tripped the machine will simply stop running and thats the important bit. A low water *alarm* is better than a light, some of our Juniors (but not all) have one of these and when its tripped, you hear a very audible alarm AND the machine wont run until you fill her up.

    Regardz,
    FC.

    PS, its academic really, but did someone mention the mondiale has a stainless steel boiler????? Are you sure its not a regular "plated" copper boiler (the colour is similar)?

  22. #22
    TC
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    Re: HX units in Melbourne

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    To those interested in HX, I cant agree with FC more....

    The diadema is a sensational unit and they look superb also. Just last week, we used one to do coffee for 40 people at a breakfast get together....It coped superbly and kept up with no issues whatsoever...

    The espresso was gorgeous....

    I strongly encourage anyone interested in HX to look at Diadema when you shop....FC imports into Australia and we both sell the Junior plus and the Unico Splendor....

    More info at http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1155946396. Melbourne members please note that I have a demo on the bench ready for a play!

    Chris



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