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Thread: La Marzocco basket compatability?

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    La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi guys,

    For those of you who use or have tried to use La Marzocco baskets, which portafilters will accept standard LM baskets and which ones wont? I was of the understanding theyd basically fit any commercial PF on the market, and Ive heard of many people using them in place of all sorts of OEM items. But Ive had feedback from a couple of users vouching that LM baskets are too deep to fit a La Cimbali and an ECM Giotto PF. The Giotto particularly surprises me, as I almost saw the LM basket -> Giotto mod as an everyday event.

    What are your experiences?

    Thanks!
    Greg


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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Greg,

    What is the size diff between a LM and standard Silvia double in diameter? i.e If I were to order a tamp matched to a LM basket, how well does it fit the standard Silvia double?

    Cheers,

    Matt

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    My Expobar Leva takes the double genuine LM.

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    The Brasilia at work wont take the LM double basket.

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Can we be very clear which basket were talking about? Could you post a photo, Greg?

    The genuine LM basket has a ridge in it that collects a crapload of gunk when you knock out the puck. The nominally 14 and 18g baskets manufactured by Ascaso are sometimes sold as "ridgeless LM baskets." I am using the genuine article in my standard rancilio commercial pf. Ive got the Ascaso baskets in the mail, so Nim and I will be able to let you know when they arrive.

    That giotto pf is pretty tiny!

    Cheers,

    Luca

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    What does the Ascao basket look like? seems you like it very much, i cant find it on google

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Assuming we are talking about the 14g ridgeless basket, most portafilters will accept it- even the shallow ECM and Rancilio ones. What they wont accept are the true 18g ones. The ridgeless 14g one has smooth curving, sloping sides- it is 24.2 mm deep and 58.5mm across.
    The 18g one has sides with a very slight groove for the spring and almost vertical sides- it is 28.2mm deep and 59mm across. It fits in deeper portafilters- interestingly the deeper pf will fit in a regular group head (even the bezzera/boema pf which has offset flanges)
    Hope this helps- note my digital callipers have a +/- 0.2mm accuracy.

    My understanding is that the 14g one (which is truly ridgeless and comes with Boema and Bezzera commercials) is the one being discussed as LM ridgeless, therefore it fits most portafilters.
    Brett

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Greg....

    Dont have LM baskets but do have genuine La Cimbali PFs

    So here are the dimensions:

    Internal diameter across base 60.3mm
    Depth from top of ridge (which rolled edge fits over) to bottom (edge height of filter (max) 23.41mm
    The ridge (included in above measurement) 2.65mm

    Judging by Bretts post above, neither the 14g or 18g will fit the standard La Cimbali PF!!! :(

    (the 14g might JUST fit as the depth gets greater towards the spout and if the 14g tapers it might just make it----- but not very comfortably)

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Pullman link=1162789523/0#0 date=1162789523
    Hi guys,

    For those of you who use or have tried to use La Marzocco baskets, which portafilters will accept standard LM baskets and which ones wont? I was of the understanding theyd basically fit any commercial PF on the market, and Ive heard of many people using them in place of all sorts of OEM items.

    What are your experiences?
    The 18gm (ridged) LM basket fits my Gaggia PF perfectly. And my Pullman tamper fits it perfectly. Actually, combining the LM basket with a new PF spring, the basket is next to impossible to dislodge...Thats where the blind filter cum LM basket removal tool really shines. *;)

    For those whos PFs are too shallow, me thinks the naked mod is in order. *[smiley=thumbsup.gif]

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee Kid link=1162789523/0#5 date=1162798379
    What does the Ascao basket look like? seems you like it very much, i cant find it on google
    Hey CK,

    Another parts story from Luca ...

    Ive attached a typical photo ... no idea where it came from.

    If you check coffeegeek and home barista, these are the synesso baskets that the guys all organised a group buy for. Pretty funny stuff, actually ... everyone jumped on the bandwagon and thought that they were something really rare because no-one really identifies their baskets in any standard or useful way. Im pretty sure that these are manufactured by the spanish giant "ascaso," but I could be wrong ... theres a helluva lot of rebranding and common parts manufacturers around and I gather that only a handful of factories in the world actually make filter baskets.

    I used them a few jobs ago when I was working on a spanish-made azkoyen machine (for those of my avid fans, Im talking about maltitude ;P). Theyre nice. Same sort of shape as the cimbali baskets, but deeper. Heaver gauge stainless than other baskets. The US guys reckon that they have much tighter manufacturing tolerances than the baskets that La Marzocco uses ... more regular sizing, fewer holes not punched through. If you check around, youll see that lots of people recommend using 57mm tampers with La Marzoccos; presumably because the basket sizes are all over the place. The sexy red-handled espros (we call them "red devils") are 57mm in diameter, made specifically for LMs. Theyre also ridgeless, so you dont get that irritating leftover ledge of coffee that needs to be wiped out.

    That said, I think that by far the most important thing is capacity. The LM double basket and the ascaso (the nominally 14g one, from memory) seem to have it more or less right. Last I checked, we were running LM baskets at TMR, at Veneziano in the FB-80 (duh) and Im using the LM double at home. Ill be very interested to try out the Ascaso when it gets here, though.

    Cheers,

    Luca


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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Im thinking if the basket would hold in the pf while you knock out the puck because theres nothing for the spring to hold on to. wouldnt the spring be useless? :-?

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee Kid link=1162789523/0#10 date=1162816383
    Im thinking if the basket would hold in the pf while you knock out the puck because theres nothing for the spring to hold on to. wouldnt the spring be useless? :-?
    Really depends what sort of knock box/tube you use- ive got a couple of ridgeless baskets and if you knock them right at the edge you can dislodge them- so Ive taken to knocking about a third in.
    My latest knck tube has a metal bar covered in thick rubber- it more easily dislodges a filter than the usual plastic with rubber bars, but the metal rubber combo needs less of a tap.
    Brett

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee Kid link=1162789523/0#10 date=1162816383
    Im thinking if the basket would hold in the pf while you knock out the puck because theres nothing for the spring to hold on to. wouldnt the spring be useless? :-?
    I never had a problem.

    Remember that the PF spring has those angular bits that are always under tension. Althought the PF springs at Maltitude were probably twice the gauge of the one in my Rancilio PF. Even so, its like $1.00 to buy a new PF spring, so I hardly think its a big deal!

    One reason why people like these ridgeless baskets is because at home with a single-group machine you can dose and tamp a second basket outside the PF whilst your first lot of espresso is extracting, then slot it in without dislodging the puck from the "click" when the ridge slides over the spring. I think that anyone who does this must either have a doserless grinder or must not have twigged to the fact that you can actually run the grinder whilst extracting a shot so that you can dose and tamp your next shot in 10 seconds after your first finishes. ;D

    Cheers,

    Luca

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1162789523/0#4 date=1162797873
    Can we be very clear which basket were talking about? Could you post a photo, Greg?

    The genuine LM basket has a ridge in it that collects a crapload of gunk when you knock out the puck. The nominally 14 and 18g baskets manufactured by Ascaso are sometimes sold as "ridgeless LM baskets." I am using the genuine article in my standard rancilio commercial pf. Ive got the Ascaso baskets in the mail, so Nim and I will be able to let you know when they arrive.

    That giotto pf is pretty tiny!

    Cheers,

    Luca
    Sorry about the phone camera quality. Were talking genuine items here, so theyre ridged items. Im only using these because they tend to be quite popular, but the diameter can be a bit of a frustration. Id be open to changing to a different brand of basket if it was demonstrable they provided good results and were preferably consistent in their internal sizing.


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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt G link=1162789523/0#1 date=1162795171
    Greg,

    What is the size diff between a LM and standard Silvia double in diameter? i.e If I were to order a tamp matched to a LM basket, how well does it fit the standard Silvia double?

    Cheers,

    Matt
    That depends on which Silvia baskets youve got. Nominally theyre both 58mm, but check out http://www.coffeetamper.com.au/faq.html#basket-discrepancies and youll see that Silvia baskets arent always Silvia baskets. This is why I normally recommend sending in baskets or buying some which will suit a wide range of machines; the purpose of this thread then is to ascertain the suitability of the LM baskets for that purpose.

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Quote Originally Posted by telemaster link=1162789523/0#6 date=1162798653
    Assuming we are talking about the 14g ridgeless basket, most portafilters will accept it- even the shallow ECM and Rancilio ones. What they wont accept are the true 18g ones. The ridgeless 14g one has smooth curving, sloping sides- it is 24.2 mm deep and 58.5mm across.
    The 18g one has sides with a very slight groove for the spring and almost vertical sides- it is 28.2mm deep and 59mm across. It fits in deeper portafilters- interestingly the deeper pf will fit in a regular group head (even the bezzera/boema pf which has offset flanges)
    Hope this helps- note my digital callipers have a +/- 0.2mm accuracy.

    My understanding is that the 14g one (which is truly ridgeless and comes with Boema and Bezzera commercials) is the one being discussed as LM ridgeless, therefore it fits most portafilters.
    Brett
    The ones I have are about 25mm in depth, and so the items in question are the ridged (14g presumably) items. Hence my surprise they didnt go into an ECM PF.

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Greg,
    are you able to give these baskets a Coffeparts part number reference?
    Ive got an LM 18g basket, which I believe is commonly called a triple. The part no. for this is 700757.
    This one fits into my Giotto pf no problems both with and without the spring.
    I dont know if this has done anything to help or not *:-[

    --EDIT-- Ive attached a pic of the triple and a double baskets (CP part no. 521994)


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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1162789523/0#4 date=1162797873
    ...Ive got the Ascaso baskets in the mail, so Nim and I will be able to let you know when they arrive....
    bugger! missed the chance to do our own group buy :D

    when do you finish your exams? let see if we could dick around before me travelling overseas again...

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Pullman link=1162789523/15#15 date=1162859735
    Quote Originally Posted by telemaster link=1162789523/0#6 date=1162798653
    Assuming we are talking about the 14g ridgeless basket, most portafilters will accept it- even the shallow ECM and Rancilio ones. What they wont accept are the true 18g ones. The ridgeless 14g one has smooth curving, sloping sides- it is 24.2 mm deep and 58.5mm across.
    The 18g one has sides with a very slight groove for the spring and almost vertical sides- it is 28.2mm deep and 59mm across. It fits in deeper portafilters- interestingly the deeper pf will fit in a regular group head (even the bezzera/boema pf which has offset flanges)
    Hope this helps- note my digital callipers have a +/- 0.2mm accuracy.

    My understanding is that the 14g one (which is truly ridgeless and comes with Boema and Bezzera commercials) is the one being discussed as LM ridgeless, therefore it fits most portafilters.
    Brett
    The ones I have are about 25mm in depth, and so the items in question are the ridged (14g presumably) items. Hence my surprise they didnt go into an ECM PF.
    Here are pics Greg and all- the one with the ridge is the coffeeparts 18g- can be seen on the la marzocco page and the other is the true ridgeless 14g one. Some people confuse this with 18g as it can be packed with about that amount of coffee.
    The 14g one will fit the ECM but not the 18g. The 14g one is standard in Boema/Bezzera machines to my knowledge


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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovey link=1162789523/15#16 date=1162883625
    Greg,
    are you able to give these baskets a Coffeparts part number reference?
    Ive got an LM 18g basket, which I believe is commonly called a triple. The part no. for this is 700757.
    This one fits into my Giotto pf no problems both with and without the spring.
    I dont know if this has done anything to help or not :-[
    Not exactly; but theyre genuine LM units so whatever CPs number is, presuming theyre carrying the same item. I buy them directly from LM not through CP so I cant comment on their stock.

    Telemaster: The 18g one certainly has a different profile to the genuine LM basket. Genuine ones are all ridged. IRe: La Marzocco basket compatability?

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    I never thought LM has triple baskets...

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Pullman link=1162789523/15#19 date=1162893315
    robodoc (attachment deleted)
    eh?

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    I just bought an La Marzocco double basket yesterday (with ridge as it is true LM). My tamper, which fits the Silvia double basket perfectly, has a little bit of play in this basket, so I would say that my LM basket is roughly 1-2 mm larger.

    HTH,
    Julio

    P.S. A shout out to my homeys at Di Bartoli, where I bought the tamper and basket, as well as an Iberital Challenge grinder that Im still adjusting but seems to do a great job. Excellent service and prices at DB, so just thought Id give them the plug for those in Sydney.

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    The ascaso/synesso baskets arrived the other day, so I thought that Id post up about them. From left to right in this photo is the ascaso 18g (triple?), the la marzocco ridged double and the ascaso 14g. The ascaso baskets are ridgeless and are sometimes (incorrectly) referred to as ridgeless la marzocco baskets. Or at least thats what all of the various US threads on the matter have led me to believe! If anyone could confirm or deny that it would be helpful.


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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    They look pretty much like standard Faema-style baskets to my untrained eye... ?

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Hmm ... hang on, Ill upload the photo again - my last post doesnt seem to want to take it.


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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Heres a photo of the baskets in the same order, but flipped over:



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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    The plus side of the ridgeless baskets is that the pucks knock out really easily, leaving the basket very clean.



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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    They look pretty much like standard Faema-style baskets to my untrained eye... ? How are they different? (Feel free to start a fresh thread if you like as I reckon this is starting to head OT)

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1162789523/15#27 date=1163832160
    Ascaso_Pucks_Large.JPG
    Whatcha trying to do? Build Mount Puckorama? :D

    Pffft at your feeble attempt... this is a mountain!!! :P :o
    http://shotzombies.blogspot.com/2006/09/coffee-cake.html


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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Drats!

    I just emptied my knock box.

    Ill have to start saving from............now!

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    So thoses LM double baskets wont fit ECM Giotto PF?

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    They look pretty much like standard Faema-style baskets to my untrained eye... ? How are they different? (Feel free to start a fresh thread if you like as I reckon this is starting to head OT)
    Youre certainly right that they have a similar kind of shape. The differences are that (a) these are deeper and (b) these have no ridge for the spring to grab on to. That means that you dont get any coffee caking up in the ridge. The LM basket is the worst for that, as the bit where it flares out at the top retains quite a bit of muck. These baskets seem to be made of slightly thicker metal than the LM basket. The guys in the US reckon that they are also more consistently stamped out to the same size, with the holes in the same position. Other than that, theyre more or less identical ;P

    Whatcha trying to do? Build Mount Puckorama? Cheesy

    Pffft at your feeble attempt... this is a mountain!!! Tongue Shocked
    Dude, Ive gone through like 500g of coffee in two days getting used to the new machine. Gimme two days ;P

    Cheers,

    Luca

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Pullman link=1162789523/0#0 date=1162789523
    For those of you who use or have tried to use La Marzocco baskets, which portafilters will accept standard LM baskets and which ones wont? I was of the understanding theyd basically fit any commercial PF on the market, and Ive heard of many people using them in place of all sorts of OEM items. But Ive had feedback from a couple of users vouching that LM baskets are too deep to fit a La Cimbali and an ECM Giotto PF. The Giotto particularly surprises me, as I almost saw the LM basket -> Giotto mod as an everyday event.

    What are your experiences?
    The double LM basket fits in the portafilter of the expobar minore, but the extra few mm in height doesnt allow it to lock into the group head. *Fortunately Im using a LM portafilter instead of the stock Minore portafilter so this hasnt been such a problem. *As Luca pointed out, cleaning out the coffee grounds from the ridge in the filter is really frustrating. *However, the ridgeless baskets I have vary in size at around 59.5mm where the LM baskets are closer to 58.5mm and fit the standard 58mm tampers better.

    Luca, have you had a chance to measure the diameter of the ascaso baskets?


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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Luca, have you had a chance to measure the diameter of the ascaso baskets?
    Hi Matt,

    I dont have any calipers, so I dont really think that measuring the baskets is worthwhile. If you check out the HB tamper roadshow, someone with calipers has measured the coffeelab tamper as having a 58.0mm base. I presume that all of them are the same size because Steve doesnt offer them in 0.1mm increments - its 57 or 58. The basket is a great fit for my coffeelab tamper - there is a small amount of wiggle room, but there isnt any ground coffee on the edges after tamping. So I think that its a pretty good bet that theyre between 58.1 and 58.3mm. Or you could get someone with calipers to measure the baskets ;P

    In any case, my ascaso basket seems to be narrower than my LM basket ...

    Hope that answers your question ...

    Luca


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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    The LaMarzocco Triple (coffeeparts no 700757) fits a Nuova Simonelli Oscar Portafilter.

    Tim

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    luca if ya ever wanted to know...ive got some digital vernier calipers u can use... =]

    my LM double ridged basket is like 58.2mm

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wushoes link=1162789523/30#36 date=1164537295
    luca if ya ever wanted to know...ive got some digital vernier calipers u can use... =]

    my LM double ridged basket is like 58.2mm
    Hmm ... sounds like we should meet up, just for curiositys sake. If you can make it to the green bean pickup next saturday, Ill bring the baskets along. And Ill bring along the coffeelab so that you can compare it to the RB thats already there ;P

    Cheers,

    Luca

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    Re: La Marzocco basket compatability?

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    next Saturday Ill be working at some new cafe that is still being built at the moment at the old Waverley Stadium.....just trying it out see how it goes....the IGA next door does like 200 coffees in the morning or per day on a 2 group machine using Dimattina coffee for all the people that work in the area...i dont know which one it is...if thats all the coffees they do...ill be laughing...200 is nothing.

    doubt ill leave my current cafe in a hurry...the money is really helping me out atm. hahaha

    Maybe we can catch up some other time =]



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