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Thread: Difference of equipment

  1. #1
    Senior Member tasadam's Avatar
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    Difference of equipment

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Gidday.
    Eventually I am going to take much delight in retiring my Breville 800ES and get a real machine.
    Whenever I go into a cafe, I notice they use what I refer to as a commercial machine - something that looks like this or similar, sometimes two group.

    Obviously there would be differences in need between a domestic and a commercial requirement.
    Warm up times are an issue. Plumbed / not plumbed. Size on the bench. Lots of other things that I really dont know what to take into consideration when choosing a machine.
    One that I do know is aesthetics. Good looks.
    Such as

    My favourite in the machines that dont look like a commercial machine so far.
    Im not saying I prefer the look of what I call a commercial machine, I am saying that of all the machines I have seen other than those that look like the 1st image above, this is the front runner for looks.
    So I found the brochure and saw the bench space it takes up - a LOT less than I thought - this thing is somewhat smaller than I imagined.
    Being in Tassie, though, no chance of seeing one for real unless I am to buy one.

    What I am really getting to is performance - I assume cafes, restaurants etc use commercial machines for a reason, but can machines such as these Giottos really cut the mustard as good as, and why dont they use them in cafes? Perhaps they do, but not in Tassie.
    Apart from plumbed / not plumbed, what are some other differences that make for cafes to use these commercial machines instead of something "pretty". And pretty small, too, it would seem from the statistics, only 330mm wide.

    Cmon, make some comments and help me justify >$2K.....

  2. #2
    TC
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    Re: Difference of equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by tasadam link=1206494174/0#0 date=1206494174
    <snip>

    Cmon, make some comments and help me justify >$2K.....
    Sounds like time we had a chat Adam.... How about you give me a call and we can do some pros and cons?

    Chris

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    Re: Difference of equipment

    Hi Tasadam
    The Giotto is a great machine, i have had mine now for coming up two years in august.
    Hasnt really missed a beat, combined with a great grinder it produces wonderful coffee.[smiley=thumbsup.gif]
    I got mine from Chris so i can recommend his advice, i will be sending mine back soon to be modded (pimped) as per threads in the forum as soon as i can arrange a suitable time.

    Mal

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    Re: Difference of equipment

    Interesting perspective - why is it that cafes dont use Giottos and the like? Is it perhaps that the guts of boxy commercial machines are similar enough and they dont need the fancy aesthetics that a home user may see as important? Or maybe its just that s/s is a lot harder to keep clean compared to painted metal. Maybe there are other reasons?

  5. #5
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: Difference of equipment

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Pullman link=1206494174/0#3 date=1206575488
    Interesting perspective - why is it that cafes dont use Giottos and the like? Is it perhaps that the guts of boxy commercial machines are similar enough and they dont need the fancy aesthetics that a home user may see as important? Or maybe its just that s/s is a lot harder to keep clean compared to painted metal. Maybe there are other reasons?
    Generally speaking commercial machines are designed to pull shots non-stop and froth milk all at the same time. Most prosumer machines arent designed for constant non-stop use.


    Java "Generally speaking" phile

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    Re: Difference of equipment

    Greg,

    Yep, the straight stainless panels (and some painted surfaces) are indeed easier to keep clean compared to all that aesthetic pipework and fittings....

    Then of course is the much larger boiler..... significantly more powerful heaters all about quick recovery and making LOTS of coffees in a very short time......

    The commercial world is all about function (which Im also most impressed by)..... the rate of coffee production, ease of cleaning and maintenance, quality in the cup (although that often suffers due to the nut on the end of the PF)...... if it looks good without impacting on any of the above then that would be a consideration..... but way down the list of priorities!

    For domestic use, looks play a far more important role.... and that is certainly where the Giotto wins.....

    But for me..... I still prefer my twin group La Cimbali. Wont win any beauty contests but looks like it means business - and it does!

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    Re: Difference of equipment


    Commercial machines need to steam milk and lots of it without running out of steam. So a huge boiler and lots of heat are required. In the home, you can get away with a small steam boiler as long as you dont want to steam too much milk all at once. Also commercial machines run high capacity pumps that can run multiple groups at once. Most use volumetric dosing on each group, which allows locking the PF in and pushing a button then walking away and preparing another shot for a different group. All important stuff in a commercial environment.

    Home machines (pro-sumer) are more than adequate for home use. They are not desigened to be run continuously and generally use smaller and cheaper vibe pumps. They come up to temperature quicker, use less power and can be run on a standard 10A plug. The next step up would be a plumbed in machine which means you never have to worry about filling a water tank or emptying a drip tray. In some situations a small 1 group commercial would be about optimal for home use. It all depende on what you want. Im sure just about all prosumer machines will happily make coffee for any reasonably sized dinner party. Weve certainly managed with a 1300W 2l boiler BZ35 making about 30 coffees in a row without any hiccups.

    Cheers,

    Mark.

  8. #8
    Senior Member tasadam's Avatar
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    Re: Difference of equipment

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Well that was most educational.
    Vibrator pump vs rotary pump. Looks. Boiler capacity. Loads of stuff.

    A Giotto does look good. So does the VBM. The VBM has a bigger drip tray, bigger water tank, and is a bit narrower on the benchtop. And it is more than capable of producing a great shot, so long as the nut on the end of the group handle isnt too loose...
    The commercial mavhines, while highly functional, seem to be an overkill for the purpose here, and they certainly do take up some space and dont have "the look".
    The VBM filter is a tad lower so I need to be a bit more precise with the dosing and tamping from what I can gather - I am sure its just a nak that I will have to master...
    There has been a lot of reading going on at this end. The short list was fairly quickly built - VBM or Giotto.
    Both demo units from Talk Coffee sold but I was ready to put some cash down, so now I guess I get a new one.
    In time... VBM. Further discussion specific to my new (pending at this stage) machine will be in the correct area of the forum.

    There is some excellent discussions and information in this forum.
    Thanks for the replies.



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