Rio coffee (in SA) are the distributors for the ACF cups in Australia and usually have a good range of the tulip and bowl shaped in many different colours.
I am having a lot of trouble finding interesting (ie not plain white) cappuccino cups that are smaller than the common 8.5oz/250ml size on any Australian websites. Can anyone suggest any Australia suppliers. I will import them if necessary but would prefer to stay local to avoid the excessing shipping and extra delivery time.
Rio coffee (in SA) are the distributors for the ACF cups in Australia and usually have a good range of the tulip and bowl shaped in many different colours.
i looked on their site the other day - it is not up and running which is annoying!!!
Try Veneziano - I bought a few from them. They are great.
Darn -- you got my hopes up -- but all I see on the Veneziano website are white ones! Did they used to have other colors?
(coz I too would like some bowl-shaped cappa cups, but am so not into white crockery :( )
Try giving Veneziano a call - their website only shows what they have in stock but I believe they have a shipment of black and brown ACF cups coming in soon...
Talk about horses for courses! I love my white crockery and it took me ages to find exactly what I was looking for in white. All it seemed I kept finding was coloured!!! Now you cant find coloured - only white. I think it is the curse of the non compromising perfectionist - keep searching and youll prevail. The frustration will be worth the effort.
As for 6 oz, whilst my stuff is all white the range I eventually settled on via a commercial supplier had cups in 4 sizes including (approx) 6 oz. Unfortunately (I just checked) they dont make anything but white. :(
I cant say for sure and certain but Ive been in a chainy type kitchenware store called "Wheel & Barrow" (??? I think) that had lots of coloured stuff. I remember because they had some really nice latte glasses cheap...
Even looking around while youre in the local supermarket will yeild some results every now and then. I saw some quite diminutive glass cups with steel handle, joined via a circlet encompassing the base of the cup. And this at the local Woolies, eh? They looked good, but I only had cash enough for what I was there for...DAMN! Will have to see if theyre still there hey?
Obviously, Woolies isnt the prime location of coffee shopping...but it pays to keep an eye out. Or frustrates...whatever...
Cheers - boingk
Wheel & Barrow have them, 200ml cups.
I got some the other day.
(i didnt know the conversion so i went and measured it out ounce by ounce with a shot glass!!)
There are a couple of styles on their webpage. I got the coffee cup extreme... i was looking at
some wedgwood cups, and these are exactly the same, design and fine bone china - just not the
I was very happy with them!!
Jetblack Espresso have 160ml ACF listed as in stock on their web site. That makes them about 5.5 fl oz depending on US or Imperial measures.
Hmmm, very nice. Not white either :)
Theres hope for us non-white crockery people after all!
BTW, does anyone else get an error with they try to look at the Wheel & Barrow "cups and saucers" page?
Yep.... Looks like it might be related to some sort of Database issue,Originally Posted by simone link=1215406752/0#9 date=1216393580
Ah -- they fixed it.
And wadda ya know -- theyre all white >:(
I can tell you that we have
Brown, black and white ACF tulip cappuccino cups in stock. In the brown, I think we only have 1 set left.
Are you in Melbourne? Pop down in to the showroom (First Pour) and say hi to Vince during the week. Hell be happy to take care of you...otherwise I work on Saturday.
thats a lovely idea -- itd be great just to browse, even though when I say "not white" what I really mean is "colorful", which is seemingly a bit more difficult at the moment. The closest Ive seen on-line to what I have in mind are some of the more colorful Illy cups -- waaay out of my price range!
Do love the shape of the "tulip" cups though.
Dont suppose ACF have any plans to branch out into "arty" tulip-shaped cups...?
ACF have lots of different colours on their catalogue. But they are special order as no one is really willing to get a whole massive order of pastel colours like orange and blue etc. The reason why black, white and brown are usually in stock at most places is because they are traditional cafe wear and barista competition cups.
Hope that answers your question.
You could always get the plain white ones Simone and then add a bit of Art yourself.... There are some excellent quality porcelain and ceramic finishes around and once fixed, dont wear off. Might be worth a look and then youll have some truly unique cups and saucers 8-)Originally Posted by simone link=1215406752/0#13 date=1216559051
Theyd be unique all right ;D
Still, its a cool idea -- but I thought glazes had to be fired on -- paint would come off next time thru the dishwasher, surely
I think they are some kind of glaze, that needs to be fired, but nowhere near the temperature of a typical kiln. I think one of our members is quite experienced in all this sort of thing but I havent seen her posting lately... Nick-name is "Remy" and maybe she can be contacted via PM. Someone else may be able to provide more info about this process too hopefully.... :)Originally Posted by simone link=1215406752/0#16 date=1216654838
Hate to admit this, but my mother is a potter and I know more than I want to about glazing :)
Some of this is based on childhood memory and may be slightly inaccurate.
Normally you do a bisque glaze first which hardens the raw clay.
Then you do a glaze firing which gives it the hardened / finished look.
You can either decorate before or after the bisque glaze.
If I remember correctly the bisque / glaze firings are up to about 1200 degrees centigrade.
In the case of something like the ACF cups you could do what is called an overglaze. It is a decorative firing and is at a much much lower temp (around 400 I think) but would still need a commercial kiln. I am not even sure if they are foodsafe.
I am sure there are lots of sites out there that may be more accurate.
I dont believe firing the finished articles would be a problem... lots of pottery clubs and groups around who share resources and knowledge. Interesting info though Ben..... Thanks mate 8-),
Got a friend whos madly into pottery at the moment -- this is the only reason Ive even *heard* of firing and glazes ::)
I will quiz her...
Maybe she can make me some cups! Is there very much difference between earthenware, stoneware, and ceramic? :-? (I feel yet another google coming on...)
earthenware and stoneware refer to the type of clay I believe.
Ceramics is generic.
Earthenware is a teracotta type clay and is fired at a lower temp and is not as hard.
Stoneware is fired at a much higher temp and is harder.
Haha! I was just down at the local Target [only quiet place in the mall to take a phonecall once kids come out of school...] and noticed they had a stack of cool looking coffee gear on sale. I picked up 4 x espresso cups+saucers and one cappuccino cup+saucer...the lot setting me back a hefy $9.85!
Anyway, my point is that porcelain is the highest grade. Huge firing temps of over 1400C, very delicate yet quite strong and extremely resistant to cracking, chipping and crazing. Also, it is set apart from the other china/pottery by its translucent quality; china is always opaque. Rudimentary porcelain was developed by the Tang dynasty, becoming comparable to modern porcelain during the Yuan dynasty [c800 and c1300AD respectively].
Then comes bone china, fired twice [once at 1280C, then again at sub 1100c with glaze]. Its major difference from the lower quality forms of pottery is that it contains bone ash to make it easier to form and also stronger, being less prone to chipping. Although fired at lower temperatures than porcelain, bone china is harder to chip, easier to make and stronger than hard porcelain. It was developed by Josiah Spode around 1800, if you reeeeaaalllly want to know :D
Stonewear is fired at higher temperatures to vitrify, making it non-porous. Glazes are applied for decoration. Origin in China c1400BC
Earthenware is a low-temperature fired pottery that is more porous and also coarser than stoneware. It was the first sort of pottery, dating back to around 7000BC.
Cheers all - boingk
Woah! A veritable mine of information! Where in this bestiary do the ACF and Nuova Point cups sit? I admit, porcelain isnt what springs to mind when I look at a chunky espresso cup ;)
Maybe I could have a stoneware bowl. Id have to pre-heat it in the oven, but it would certainly be *heavy* ;D
Although the NPs appear similar to ACF cups they are in fact quite different. Unlike the ACF range that is made of vitreous china and fired at 1250 degrees, the Nuova Point range is made of porcelain and fired at 1380 degrees. Porcelain is considered to be a superior form of china as it is made of more refined materials, is more durable, and well, the white is whiter.Originally Posted by simone link=1215406752/20#23 date=1216909799
You sure they dont use OMO or Persil in the mix Den.... ;DOriginally Posted by Dennis link=1215406752/20#24 date=1216938942
I thnk youll find its Napisan, Mal. ;DOriginally Posted by Mal link=1215406752/20#25 date=1217064562
I had a laugh - I didnt know Persil was still available Mal! ;DOriginally Posted by Mal link=1215406752/20#25 date=1217064562
"Whiter than white"! Love it ;DOriginally Posted by Dennis link=1215406752/20#24 date=1216938942
Seriously though, while I looove elegant expensive shiny things, to the point where Id rather stick with my 50c Salvos bowl/cup thing if I cant have *exactly* what I want ::) -- how much difference does firing temp make to a coffee cup?
I was wondering also about shape -- Ive just got this idea that wider at the top (maybe even wider than it is tall) makes my coffee taste nicer -- could be just me ;D
But it certainly matters to wine...
Ah simone, if we invited Rousseau, Foucault, Aquinas, Satre, et al., they perhaps would contemplate the cup, and propose that for it to near perfection, it must match the saucer.
As for me, I enjoy a cup that has weight; is rounded to allow easy art to be formed within; is thick enough to keep the contents warm, while at the same time be sensual on the lips; appealing in appearance; and feels good when you touch and hold it in your embrace.
A cup then, by definition, must be sensuous. And isnt that what coffees all about?
Originally Posted by Dennis link=1215406752/20#29 date=1217076676
Dennis, did you just pull that from a Mills & Boon Romance novel and change "girl" with "cup"? ;D
Or are you just a big softie - lets hope Sue gets that kind of wrap ;)
I may romanticise coffee YeeZa, but am romantic with Sue.
There is a big difference. ;)
ps. a cup that is wide at the top, like a bowl, will allow the coffee to cool down quickly...so this may not be a desirable attribute.
Wow -- poetry, yet! I feel quite gooey ::)
The prefect cappa cup is becoming quite an exotic little creature, isnt she?
I shall have to try to dig out the link, but a few years ago a physicist in WA had his uni class conduct an experiment that confirmed what Den said - heat loss is governed by the exposed surface area of the liquid and is relatively independent of the weight of the vessel. So you can heat up your bowl as much as you like, but as long as it is wide, youre boned ;POriginally Posted by simone link=1215406752/20#23 date=1216909799
I guess that this means that you have to really consider what you are spending money for in buying a cup. I think that the weight and thickness of a cup has a psychological effect, even if we know that it wont help to retain heat. Its personal preference, so finding the right weight and thickness for you is really a bit of a goldilocks act. Whilst its true that heavy cups might be harder to heat up on a domestic machine than lighter cups, dont let that dissuade you - throwing a teatowel on top of the cups on the cup warmer is a very effective way of getting them nice and toasty.
Volume and shape are pretty easily dealt with, though. The tulip shape is great because it gives you a good combination of a small surface area at the bottom of the cup to hold the crema of your espresso and a curvature thats conducive to latte art. The more bowl-shaped the cup, the easier latter art will be. The straighter the sides, the harder. In that respect, Habibs efforts at the latte art championship(s) this year were quite remarkable in that he was the only one who didnt use the latte-art-friendly bowl-shaped cup. Note that some of the cheaper tulip shaped cups actually have a surprisingly large surface area at the bottom and quite straight sides. The ACFs have a pretty good shape. I like to use them for espresso because it is easy to swirl it around and get a real puff of aroma. There is an "amalfi" shaped cup that I find slightly easier to pour latte art into than the tulip, but its a tradeoff because the bottom is wider and, so, kills the crema more quickly.
IMHO, the ACFs sit at the top of the bestiary by virtue of their resilience, fit and finish, shape and weight. I have dropped ACF espresso cups onto concrete from a height of two metres to have them bounce and emerge unscathed and I can think of a number of cafes going through over 50 kg of coffee a week that still have their ACFs in good condition after a few years of service - youd think that the gold bands would be particularly susceptible to chipping off. (People would probably be unsurprised at me noting that soaking any cups in cafetto does wonders to remove typical cafe stains ;P) The ACF cups that I have seen tend to have nicer glazing than most other cups that I have seen ... its hard to describe, but the colours seem to be a little fuller and the glaze seems to be a little shinier ... if that makes any sense. Fit and finish is generally top-notch, with the exception of a few odd batches that I know were sent back to the Australian distributor. Nuova points are pretty good, too. The main difference is that they are a little chunkier, which you may or may not like. The NP material seems to be chalky, at least in comparison to whatever the ACFs are made of - as I found out with several that fell victim to my butter fingers at home. The NPs that I have seen also tend to be a bit poorer finished in that I have seen a lot of little specks in the white glaze, spiky bits on the inside of the cup and little divots. If you look at enough of any brand of cup, though, you will see these. On the coloured cups that I have seen, the ACFs have also tended to have less bleeding between the coloured part and the white inside than the nuova points. All of this is really splitting hairs, though - the main difference between these two is the chunkiness, which is really down to personal taste. I pushed for Veneziano to get them in, but, ultimately, there just wasnt enough to differentiate them from the ACFs or the made-in-china cups that they were already stocking.
Anyhoo, I must have over 50 different cups and I dont think that my collection is going to stop growing!
Mostly agree Luca, though would be interested for you to do a little experiment for me...
Take 10 ACF espresso cups and drop them onto a concrete floor and let me know how many bounce, unscathed? What happened in your example was a fluke, yet comes across sounding like an everyday occurrence. If you really want to test cup resilience, give them to AU Post or Courier - Ive seen these guys break both ACFs and NPs.
I have a set of Illy nudes, one of which has a tiny air bubble trapped within the crystal. By Lucas reckoning, this might easily be considered an imperfection. By mine, it is absolutely acceptable and adds to the appeal.
My earlier description was intentionally gooey... apart from being functional, isnt it likely that the cups you buy will be partly due to some emotional, tactile connection you experience?
So, when you do go shopping....be one with the cup.
I have dropped ACF cups onto concrete 6 or 7 times with only one breakage. By comparison, only one of the six NP cappuccino cups that I bought a few years ago remains whole in my cup drawer. As you have pointed out, it might be that NPs higher firing temperature makes them more brittle. Im not especially keen on dropping more cups!
As for imperfections, I described the difference, people can put their own weighting on it, which goes for everything else that I posted. The bottom line is that more or less anything except for a plastic dribble cup will hold hot coffee, so people should make up their own mind and buy the cups that they like.
Damn...and here I was thinking I could trick you into smashing a few cups! * ;D
Hell yeah. Ive looked everywhere in chadstone and couldnt find a proper euro style cappuccino cup. They are all just waaay too big, except for one cup/saucer set from "House" (shop name) that cost 10 bucks each... roughly 160ml.. but it was fine, thin porcelain...not the thick type.Originally Posted by simone link=1215406752/20#32 date=1217081943
Love that line Dennis..... 8-)Originally Posted by Dennis link=1215406752/20#34 date=1217114812
I was wondering if your Illy Nudies could stand up to the tests that Luca did on his NPs? I have 3 Bodum Pavoni thermal cups left that I cant even let them see anything metal for fear of breaking. They do a wonderful job of keeping the coffee warm and are a great shape and size but they are so damn fragile. I looked for a picture of the Illy and they look great but I was wondering how fragile they were? I use a stainless mug most of the time so I dont have to worry but it realy is too tall to fit under the PF with a spout and I havent found a lower stainless shape that I like.
I have two incasa (I think) 80ml stainless espresso cups. Fits under the pf fine :P :D
Im not sure I could be one with a stainless steel cup :P
Current object of so far unrequited affections: the darling-est little brown and white NP espresso cups. Just totally cuddly ::)
Yeah yeah, I wasnt into brown either, but Im weakening ...
Ah, like these...Originally Posted by simone link=1215406752/40#41 date=1217585286
Though these are my favs...
Thats the one! Where did you pinch that from? :o
Though earlier in the thread I think someone said that thick chunky cups didnt hold heat any better than thin (or at least ordinary weight) ones -- so there goes that justification for *more* espresso cups :(
Though I do find that hard to believe -- think I feel another experiment coming one...
The Illy nudes, I feel, are let down style-wise by their funny jug-ears handle -- I dunno, I just feel it lacks something ::) (just putting my totally unearned style critics hat on here for a sec ;D )
Do you drink espressi simone? If so, pm me with how many you need and you might be in for a pleasant surprise. ;)
BTW, I love the Illy handles :P and believe me, these little babies look stunning in the [s]flesh[/s] crystal.
"espressi" now the plural of espresso? Love it ;)
Yes, occasionally -- Ive been trying to cut back on the lattes -- milks fattening you know ::)
PM sent 8-)