Excuse my ignorance...what is it that you are insulating exactly?
Just thought that Id start another thread on insulation since I havent seen one for a while and I think that I might have found something that would work well.
It is called HT Armaflex and is capable of handling temperatures up to 150C. Id be interested in hearing everyones opinion. I think that I can get a 1m x 0.5m piece for $40.
The website is www.armacell.com
While on the topic I managed to find some silicon sponge/foam for $180 per m2 for 3mm thick material. They only sell it by the metre
Id love to hear any and all opinions.
Excuse my ignorance...what is it that you are insulating exactly?
Boiler insulation With only home use keeping 10 + litres at operating temp. gets expensive. With smaller machines there is still a benifit but a smaller benifit in $ terms.
If you search here using the term "insulation" there is several good threads going back some years talking about the benifits.
As a part of my Rancilio rebuild I have got hold of some bonded glass mat (I will take a photo tonight) to do mine with basically it will form a sewn removable cover for the boiler only but none of the pipework or groups wil be covered.
Gday Michel,Originally Posted by michel_c link=1223931557/0#0 date=1223931557
The Armaflex sounds like it should be OK.... Have you talked to one of their application engineers at all and explained what you want to use it for? Looking at the specs though, I think it would be fine; probably go for a 10-13mm thickness sheet which should perform well.
About the Silicone Sponge Sheet... 3mm would be marginal in my opinion with thicknesses between 8-12mm providing better long term structural and insulation protection. Trouble is, at these thicknesses this stuff becomes very expensive and is the reason why it hasnt been followed up re: purchasing same from within Oz. To give you an idea, that 3mm sheet costs only about USD$15/M2 to buy from the factory in China, if you can actually order it.
Id concentrate on the Armaflex mate as this seems to be a worthwhile alternative.... 8-)
All the best, :)
I spoke to the Qld rep today and he is going to see if he can get me a sample to try. Likely to be the 13mm thick mat. I hope to hear from him within a couple of days and will let you know what happens.
The downside is that it comes in a box of 20 sheets with each sheet being 1m x 1.5m. There are a couple of places that can order it in but arent likely to have a huge demand for it so might be keen to sell the whole box rather than just a sheet.
Ill see where it goes ... otherwise the glass mat from Beanflying looks pretty good. I like the idea about sewing up a cover from it and it looks fairly clean and easy to work with.
Id be interested in a sheet, depending on price.
If you look back through the thread histories on this subject - if a rock-solid offer was in place for a group purchase, there is a chance that youd be able to purchase a whole box pre-sold to other coffeesnobs.
I think that Im talking to the Qld rep on Monday so with scope out with him what the deal would be. I was talking to him about getting a sample which would be good to make sure that it will work
if that all works out and the price is right then Ill see if I can get enough interest to sell a box worth to the CS public.
This is just what Ive been looking for.
If it works and the price isnt too bad, Ill take a sheet.
I am interested in a sheet too. Let us know how the phone call goes.
Should be talking to the rep tomorrow (thurs) and will report back asap.
heh thats synchronicity...
after the big open up, and the realisation that the insulation around my boiler is cracked, i was considering looking for some sort of insulator.
in truth i was kind of thinking of some sort of spray on foam, but my interest is piqued in this.
Spoke to the rep today. He is waiting on the sample from Melbourne before coming to see me. Could be tomorrow... will update when I have information.
Thanks to all of you that have expressed interest.
So how did you go Michel?
Finally I got the sample today!!! It does look very good and it can be stuck together with contact adhesive. It looks like the water based contact will work best. Ive bought a selleys product.
Going camping tomorrow so should be able to spend some time putting the insulation on either Sun or Mon night
Had a few spare minutes this morning so I put the insulation on!!!
Fantastic!! So easy to cut and work with. Still waiting for the glue to go tacky so that I can glue the ends together.
The stuff that I got was the 13mm thick stuff and they gave me a sample of 1 sq metre. I think that Ill end up using about 1/3 of it. I think that if you tried any thicker it would be harder to work with since there are lots of cutouts that you need on a coffee boiler.
Ill post some photos early next week so that you can all see what it looks like.
With the sample so large, does this mean you wont be ordering any? I too am interested in getting some for a home use/commercial machine.
Im also keen to get enough to do a small 3-4l boiler if its possible.
id be keen to get enough to do my 1l boiler if someones going to organise...
Im still interested in some as well for my boiler.
Im also interested to know how well the contact adhesive stands up to the rigours of the boiler and the various temperature fluctuations.
Count me in for a sheet if it stands up.
So far so good. See this thread for more information and photos on the finished product.
It does seem to work well. I havent had a chance to do any checks on time to heat up etc but since I pulled the machine apart from the start I dont really have a baseline to compare it to. Im also not using one of the boiler elements so I couldnt compare it anyway.
BUT saying all of that the top of the machine doesnt get over 45C at the moment and I think that is fairly cool. I think that if I put some more insulation over the end of the boiler it would cool it down further.
I dont think that getting anything thicker than 13mm would really be practical since there are so many sections that need to be cut out from the foam.
Next week Ill try and price up a larger amount and see how we can share it between everyone.
I tried to order some HT from Dale Barnes in Queensland and this is the reply that I received to an e-mail that I sent him:-
We only have 19 & 25 mm HT rolls in stock.
This is because we really only sell this into large vessel lagging contracts.
The 19 mm rolls are 6 meters long and the 25 mm rolls are 4 meters long.
The 19 mm roll price is $204.36/roll excl GST and Freight.
The 25 mm roll price is $191.36/roll excl GST and Freight.
We do not cut rolls or sheet to size, but we can arrange this if you require.
A fee will apply and depends on length and design of cuts.
As for results, there will be no problem achieving what you require.
This is why I have always suggested the 19 mm for this type of application.
The thermal loss on this application will be very low.
The 19 mm thermal conductivity will be 0.044 W/(m . K).
Mr. Dale Barnes
Technical Sales Manager, Qld/NT
Fax +617 38866141"
If you can obtain the 13mm from him I would like to purchase some from you.
I too think that the 19mm HT would be hard to work and am not really interested in it.
Good luck....I have sent you several PMs....have you received them?
How does this one look?
The TAF-18 is covered on both sides with teflon
the SRF-53 is covered with silicon
They would have the benefits of ceramic insulation with the health benefits of sealing the fibres in.
Either of these would probably work quite well but you would need to wrap the boiler with several layers of the material to realise a decent level of insulation.
A better solution might be to wrap the boiler in a layer of fibreglass matt and then secure this in place with an additional wrap of one of the above materials, or simply use a close denier fibreglass woven cloth. I guess the Silicone coated material would offer better protection against the incursion of water in the event of some kind of accident or Safety Valve Discharge for example.
Cheers mate, :)
Hi Michel_c,Originally Posted by michel_c link=1223931557/20#20 date=1228480425
Im keen if you can manage to get some... Ill be wanting to insulate my new Wega Atlas EVD2s 12l boiler :D
ps: did I mention I got a new machine? ;)
Sorry for my slackness in sourcing this material. Im just waiting for Reese to get back to me on amounts and stuff. If I can get a roll Ill sell it through the for sale section in pieces.
Be good... considering Ive just picked up a second two-group!