Thread: Dual walled filter baskets - Where?

Originally Posted by 7E5C5C5D405B5A5D56330 link=1261101860/0#0 date=1261101860

Hi
Been searching the net for a dual walled 14g basket and hard to find.
Then I thought...hmm..join a coffee forum...someone will know a place that sells them? Im in Melbourne but it is for my sister near Tweed Heads. Any online store will do. I read that one of the sponsors *have them so I tried one...then noticed there are several sposors (which is great) but any clues as to which one would be appreciated.
Ive been using a dual walled pressurized basket for ages and find them heaps better even though I grind my own beans.
Anyway, glad to be onboard, as I love my coffees. Cheers *:P

Most of us dump / crush any we have... Good for stale beans only..

What machine are you chasing them for... If a 58mm basket... Plenty of Sunbeam EM6910 ones should be around..

My opnion.. They are good for Stale supermarket beans and only help to produce fake crema..

I have a Dual walled filter basket to suit the Ikon 52mm and *Breville 800 and the lower end Sunbeam machines, that you can have for a 5 dollar donation to fair crack and postage costs.

Ima tell you what you need to hear Moonshine....

With your own grinder on hand..why is it your still using the dual floor pressurised baskets when you could be having better quality coffee?

Like AngerManagement says...we crushed them long ago...thats why were here :)

They will lead you to believe that you are making ok coffee all the while hiding any faults you are making in your preperation process and thereby not letting you become the coffeesnob you aspire to be and thus negating the need for your grinder at all?

I understand that your inquiring about the baskets for someone else and like AM says.... there should be a LOT of Sunbeam baskets around.

NOW!...pass the bootleg moonshine :)

Originally Posted by 4C6E6E6F7269686F64010 link=1261101860/0#0 date=1261101860

Ive been using a dual walled pressurized basket for ages and find them heaps better even though I grind my own beans.

This sort of caught my eye, I respect your opinion on your own cup. But how did you gauge your own response, in a sense that its heaps better.. heaps better than?

Get a spoon, taste the crema itself and try to understand that the viscous oils youre forcefully extracting through a double walled basket is not pleasant, nor a representation of any shot due to the very nature of why those baskets exist. Also, please let us know what machine youre using.. That way, we could point you in the right direction for the right baskets, double walled or not. :D

Guess ya got the message Moonshine, nobody likes em. ;)

He pmd me before and said he was after a one for a Gaggia baby, so my 52mm is unable to fit (would like to take the time to point out it sits in the little toolbox under the watertank and has never came out)

Originally Posted by 0C594A513F0 link=1261101860/6#6 date=1261144858

He pmd me before and said he was after a one for a Gaggia baby, so my 52mm is unable to fit (would like to take the time to point out it sits in the little toolbox under the watertank and has never came out)

Never used one so cant comment, they dont seem to have many friends. ;D

Hi snobs

Thanks for your posts. I appreciate all of your views, and yes, Ive got the clear message about the dual-walled baskets being blasphemy on this forum :-D
Although I am inquiring for my sister, I am using one myself as mentioned even though I grind as I go.

I have a DeLonghi BAR-M290 (rrp $350)
DeLonghi Grinder (rrp $140)
Beans: Coffex- Super Bar, Cisco atm
Preference: Merlo, St Ali (Nth Melb)

Ok snobs...Im a noob... and ignorance is bliss

According to my "uneducated tastebuds this cheap little setup along with the dual-wall basket happens to bring much pleasure to my pallette...believe it or not.

I found, and my sister as well find that the coffee runs through too quickly through the standard open weave (name?) baskets and therefore favor is diluted.
Im aware of the need for a finer grind and compacting the coffee in the basket.
I admit I havent tried the other basket for a long time and will try it again to compare it, as everyone except Sunbeam believe standard issue is the way to go.

Just out of curiosity though, what pump pressure do the expensive say $5,000 machines operate at.
As you know, the cheapies use 15 bars. Now chill out dudes when you hear this question...remember Im a noob...here goes..
If the good machines use a higher pump pressure to get better extraction, is there any...I emphasize...any possibility *gasp*...err.. that the dual-walled design creating more pressure
for extraction compensates and dare I say it, enhance the effectiveness of the cheap 15 bar
machines to produce a coffee that punches above its weight?

After catching your breath and picking yourselves up off the floor...Id be interested in your comments on this....hang on a tick while I grab my suit of Armour :-D

Cheers...and thanks for your tolerance and understanding

Originally Posted by 46646465786362656E0B0 link=1261101860/8#8 date=1261274449

Hi snobs

Thanks for your posts. I appreciate all of your views, and yes, Ive got the clear message about the dual-walled baskets being blasphemy on this forum :-D
Although I am inquiring for my sister, I am using one myself as mentioned even though I grind as I go.

I have a DeLonghi BAR-M290 (rrp $350)
DeLonghi Grinder (rrp $140)
Beans: Coffex- Super Bar, Cisco atm
Preference: Merlo, St Ali (Nth Melb)

Ok snobs...Im a noob... and ignorance is bliss

According to my "uneducated tastebuds this cheap little setup along with the dual-wall basket happens to bring much pleasure to my pallette...believe it or not.

I found, and my sister as well find that the coffee runs through too quickly through the standard open weave (name?) baskets and therefore favor is diluted.
Im aware of the need for a finer grind and compacting the coffee in the basket.
I admit I havent tried the other basket for a long time and will try it again to compare it, as everyone except Sunbeam believe standard issue is the way to go.

Just out of curiosity though, what pump pressure do the expensive say $5,000 machines operate at.
As you know, the cheapies use 15 bars. Now chill out dudes when you hear this question...remember Im a noob...here goes..
If the good machines use a higher pump pressure to get better extraction, is there any...I emphasize...any possibility *gasp*...err.. that the dual-walled design creating more pressure
for extraction compensates and dare I say it, enhance the effectiveness of the cheap 15 bar
machines to produce a coffee that punches above its weight?

After catching your breath and picking yourselves up off the floor...Id be interested in your comments on this....hang on a tick while I grab my suit of Armour :-D

Cheers...and thanks for your tolerance and understanding

From my iBrick... So short and swet..

1: Use teh advanced search function and you will find many answers...

2: 15 Bar is a Marketing tool... 9 bar is what ya looking for... A top system could provide much more but are set at 9Bar. They have the capicity to delever... Many little system can not. Thus they us a pump that is rated highter and expect that you will get about 9 under load.

3: If ya using stale beans and or a cheep grinder.. Then the dual floor will give you a fake pour, but better than instant...

There are a number of other sites that you should go and visit and read about coffee... Two in particular ... Randy C and home Barister have some geat how tos and good reading.

15 bar is the max operating pressure of the pump not the actual pressure. The norm is around 9 bars for most machines some prefer a little more some prefer a little less. The "benefit" of the dual wall is that it produces a fake crema due to the pressure buildup so you can use cheap beans and it looks better. I have only used this type of basket a few times and it doesnt taste better and I found it much harder to use.

Dont be afraid everyone is very understanding of noobs as we were all there once.

Welcome :)

Originally Posted by 4C424F405741402E0 link=1261101860/10#10 date=1261275332

15 bar is the max operating pressure of the pump not the actual pressure. The norm is around 9 bars for most machines some prefer a little more some prefer a little less. The "benefit" of the dual wall is that it produces a fake crema due to the pressure buildup so you can use cheap beans and it looks better. I have only used this type of basket a few times and it doesnt taste better and I found it much harder to use.

Dont be afraid everyone is very understanding of noobs as we were all there once.

Welcome *:)

WRONG... I am not and detest nubes with a passion.... OPPS.... After many years of coffee and 3k posts... I am still a nube.....

I guess that means I dont like myself :D ;D :o

PS. Welcome to CS it is a long journy...

Damm i-bricks.

Hi

Just wondering?
If the dual floor basket was designed for stale ground coffee in supermarkets to create artificial crema, then if as I do, grind my beans each time, is the crema produced also considered artificial?
I reverted back to the standard single floor basket, and according to my taste buds the dual floor makes a much tastier coffee.
Just because they designed it for stale coffee, yet happens to get better results using freshly ground coffee, why then are they considered trash by so many people around here?
Of course it is individual preference, but for lattes that I drink, and my sister agrees, it is a slam dunk for the dual walled basket.
Heaven forbid if it ended up being a design improvement on the traditional one?!! :P

Originally Posted by 745656574A5150575C390 link=1261101860/12#12 date=1265941005

according to my taste buds the dual floor makes a much tastier coffee.

I wonder what the different taste is?
You do know that all sorts of gunk can grow between the walls dont you? :P

Originally Posted by 0D2F2F2E3328292E25400 link=1261101860/12#12 date=1265941005

Hi

Just wondering?
If the dual floor basket was designed for stale ground coffee in supermarkets to create artificial crema, then if as I do, grind my beans each time, is the crema produced also considered artificial?
I reverted back to the standard single floor basket, and according to my taste buds the dual floor makes a much tastier coffee.
Just because they designed it for stale coffee, yet happens to get better results using freshly ground coffee, why then are they considered trash by so many people around here?
Of course it is individual preference, but for lattes that I drink, and my sister agrees, it is a slam dunk for the dual walled basket.
Heaven forbid if it ended up being a design improvement on the traditional one?!! :P

Couple of questions, is it fresh coffee not just freshly ground and are you getting approx 30mls in 30 sec type pour? I have used the dual walled basket vs single and the quality of coffee is better with the single IMHO. Saying that if that is what you like then more power to you.

Hi

I buy Coffex Super Bar beans from the local deli and no idea how fresh they are. Grind them in a DeLonghi grinder and use the 14g basket. The amount I run is filling those heavy stainless short black cups. It takes 20 secs to pour once it starts running.
My sister has an $800 Sunbeam which pours really slowly, almost trickles out. It shouldnt take that long but love the stronger flavor it produces. She prefers the dual floor too. I guess I prefer the longer extraction rather than the quicker one that occurs with the single floor. My Delonghi machine retails around $360 and after working at making it exactly how I like it, Im thrilled at the result. As Im into lattes, I mix 2 litres of say Aldi Farmdale milk with 1 ltr of Pauls Parmalat Organic unhomogenized into a 3 litre container to get the ideal blend of creaminess/richness.
I figure using Merlo expresso beans or St Ali Honey blend should pretty well achieve the ambition for my taste buds anyway, as they would also ensure bean freshness. Roasting my own beans may be the ultimate but unlikely to go there. Im happy with my coffees these days and it is hard to get them as nice in cafes using expensive coffee machines. Turning on my coffee machine and making one of these beautys is what gets me out of bed in the morning.

Cheers ;)

Wouldnt count on the Coffex beans being fresh but you could be lucky, sounds like you have the pour about right. The quicker extraction you get with the single floor sounds like you need to grind finer to slow the water flow down (or updose or tamp a bit harder or all of the above). If you can achieve the same time of extraction with the single walled you should get a better coffee than the dual walled.

Hi
I have the grind setting on the finest and compact it firmly.
It takes about 10 secs for the water to start filtering through once the button is pressed.
I guess this means I cant get the extraction slower on a single floor basket.
The coffex is an old staple and the best that is available locally when I run out, which puts me in desperation mode for the next fix asap.
I dont have a car, otherwise I could go further to get better beans as I am 40ks on the fringe of S-W Melb. I go through about 300g per week. Thats about 3 double shot mugs a day and not worth getting more than a kilo at a time to keep it reasonably fresh.
Exactly how fresh after roasting is optimum? St Ali in North Melb sell having roasted the day prior, but I have heard that beans should be allowed to settle for a week after roasting? :-?

Much debate on "how fresh" on this site but rule of thumb let settle for a week and then it is good for about 3-4 weeks, depends on how you drink it and your pallet as to when "good" becomes average and then bad. Sounds like you need to upgrade the grinder, plenty of advice around on what to buy and where should you be looking.

South West of Melbourne? That sounds like youre in range of Andy...at least you could purchase from Brown Bay and have same day delivery as well...

And 20 seconds to fill a SS cup? If its the kind of cup Im thinking about then that sure sounds far too fast a pour as well as far too much coffee for that size of cup. Those cups are more than 30ml arent they?

Does the Delonghi really have a 14 gram basket? I mean, it doesnt even have a commercial sized group, so I cant see how it could possibly hold that much coffee in the basket. If its not really a big portafilter and is only tiny like I think it is, then you really cant even hope to get a good 30ml pour as there just is not enough coffee in the basket. I would suggest that the coffee is blonding out at about 15 seconds. And if you want to know more about the word "blonding", do a search, youll come up with heaps of info.

You also say that you "compact it firmly" but you havent mentioned with what? Do you have a tamper that fits your basket properly as well?

Again, its all subjective, if what youre getting in your cup tastes good to you, well then thats great! If you want to improve on that, then youve come to the right place as CS will certainly put you on the right path, there is heaps to learn here and heaps of people willing to help.

All the best with your journey, Moonshine... :)

Hi
Thanks for the reply

Ive just measured the small cup I use for the pour before pouring into my mug.
80ml = coffee
250ml = milk
Mug = 400ml
Coffee/milk ratio for latte 1/3

The Delonghi has a built on tampa which fits snugly into the basket with about a 1mm clearance. Its only plastic and not one of those upmarket 9crt gold plated models (just kidding - but it wouldnt surprise me?)

The double shot single floor basket which came with the DeLonghi machine is tapered toward the base, so Im guessing it is 12g, as it does not take as much ground coffee as my 14g basket.
The dual-wall double shot basket I use is a sunbeam one, and not tapered. It was too tight for the handle so I had to use my electric stone grinder to grind it down to fit, although it still gets stuck.
I have seen them for sale on the net, and emailed to confirm what size their double shot was? The reply was thought 14g?

Im in Werribee 3030 - whos Andy? a bean supplier I gather?
Im up for trying new coffee beans. What is the contact?

Thanks for your interest and assistance (all posters)
....hmm...all this coffee talk...must be about time to go make another one. Cheers

Andy is the big cheese who runs this show, clicking on beanbay takes you through to the selection he has on offer. A double basket is anywhere from 12g to 18g.

Andy is the head honcho - hed have to have excellent product then!

I didnt know double shot baskets were 12-18g
12 is a bit lame for a mug but 14, if thats what Ive got is just right for me.
Hmm....thinking about it, might be nice to have the option of a real kicker for when the mood strikes? Perhaps a 16g. 18g might be handy if my heart is a bit sluggish or regaining conciousness, which could easily slot into that first one after waking?
Problem with that though, is that due to feeling caffeined out after the first coffee, Id probably have to wait 6 hours before I felt like having the 2nd, thus depriving myself of the joy of the follow-up cuppa. :P

Its the caffeine that gives most of the hit--and that increases a lot more with more water through the grounds than with more grounds in the basket.

I generally like a mild caffeine hit, but a lot of flavour, so I routinely use 20+ gms of grounds but pull the shot short--aiming for 20-25 ml in 20-25 seconds. For a latté Ill add about 75 ml of steamed milk.

Ill recommend that you have a search for the "5 cent" dosing test and try it. Generally each set-up has a sweet spot and it is not very wide--a mm of grinds either way in the basket can change everything.

BTW--there is NO CONNECTION AT ALL between stale beans and fresh roasted. The fresh beans grind differently, extract differently, and taste MUCH, MUCH BETTER :o.

A tamper with a 1mm clearance is only just OK.

Greg

Originally Posted by 6B494948554E4F4843260 link=1261101860/20#20 date=1266105673

Im in Werribee 3030 - whos Andy? *a bean supplier I gather?
Im up for trying new coffee beans. What is the contact?

Andy is the owner of Coffeesnobs... ;)

He is based in Geelong. Im sure that Werribee wouldnt be a problem to get beans to. *:D

Click on Buy Brown at the top left of the screen and youll see what Andy roasts...you could even go and pick them up if you really wanted to. *;)

And for a "standard" we use a 30ml shot as a basis of any drink on the coffee menu. 80ml is really a bit too much...youll have gone beyond blonding with a shot like that Id imagine!

Thanks for the tips.

Sounds like I have a fair way to go in my education which is definitely something to look forward to as I was under the impression that my coffees are really nice, even at the stage that Im at...what am I?...a greenbean - thats funny :-D

Sounds like the tampa should be snug to get even compression.
When you say a 30ml shot, is that for both a single and double basket?
As mine is a double, should my pour still be 30ml ie just more concentrated?

I have tried a shorter pour, and although the flavour was nicer, it wasnt strong enough.
Seems like Im after a similar potency as Greg initially, but would be diluting it with 300ml of milk for my latte rather than his 75ml.
Quite a big difference there eh? Ill definitely look into dosing as I have been only aware that the sweet-spot was there somewhere, but had no idea how to hone in on it.
(funny- sounds like a coffee version of a G-spot)

Thanks ;)