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Thread: VST Machined Filter Baskets

  1. #1
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    VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hey all,

    So VST has recently made filter baskets that are machined so some ridiculous accuracy. Read about them here if youre interested:

    NON Site Sponsor link removed in accordance with Site Sales and Posting Policy
    Brochure PDF File attached below...


    Id order these in a heartbeat if the owners werent such tools and didnt charge $85 for postage!? What the hell is that?

    Anyway, definitely looking forward to places getting these in stock so I can buy them locally instead of paying $110 for a filter basket delivered. Or, if a bunch of people were interested, we could do a CS bulk order?

    ~M


  2. #2
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Well, they have a product that *may* be *somewhat* better. I can see a shop that wants to gain consistency might find it useful to buy one for each head/handle---but---if I have to learn how to use it, I cant see it making a big change when I only have one machine and one group handle.

    As for the shipping rip-off---they have to make a profit somehow!

    I got a pair of shoes express delivered from the States in 7 days (over Easter!) for less than half that price.

    Greg

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Quote Originally Posted by 5E404A575640330 link=1304666268/0#0 date=1304666268
    Or, if a bunch of people were interested, we could do a CS bulk order?
    Ive made enquiries.

    Will let everyone know the outcome.

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Quote Originally Posted by 2137323223212D24242727420 link=1304666268/2#2 date=1304679996
    Quote Originally Posted by 5E404A575640330 link=1304666268/0#0 date=1304666268
    Or, if a bunch of people were interested, we could do a CS bulk order?
    Ive made enquiries.*

    Will let everyone know the outcome.
    We have lift off!

    These baskets can be purchased on the US website for US$25 plus US$85 postage.

    I am going to place an order for the 18gm and 22gm baskets and have been assured of a better postage rate.

    Cost for either of the above 2 baskets will be around AU$35.

    Is anyone interested before I confirm my order? If so, could you please indicate which size you would prefer?


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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    if we can get them for around $35, id be interested in one of the 22gm baskets, assuming it can fit the group handle for a Sunbeam 6910. (same to say it will?)

    ~M

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Quote Originally Posted by 455B514C4D5B280 link=1304666268/4#4 date=1304856941
    if we can get them for around $35, id be interested in one of the 22gm baskets, assuming it can fit the group handle for a Sunbeam 6910. (same to say it will?)

    ~M
    Ill let you know the exact dimensions when they arrive. No one is under any obligation to buy by expressing interest and have had a few pms.

    If anyone had told me a week ago Id be ordering well over $1k worth of baskets Id have laughed myself silly!

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    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Quote Originally Posted by 3628223F3E285B0 link=1304666268/4#4 date=1304856941
    if we can get them for around $35, id be interested in one of the 22gm baskets, assuming it can fit the group handle for a Sunbeam 6910. (same to say it will?)

    ~M
    Ive used non-Sunbeam 58mm baskets in a 6910 without any problems.

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    The reason why these baskets are important for coffee shops is because they allow you to fully extract a coffee. A basket that isnt machined properly (have holes not fully punched out etc) will cause you to underextract your espresso no matter how hard you try, all refractometer readings will give you a TDS reading below your target range.

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Re TDS, have you used one of the following David?

    http://www.coffeechemistry.com/index.php/Lab-Equipment/Coffee-TDS-Meter.html

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    We have placed an order for these.

    The 22gm baskets will be the first to arrive and the 18gm baskets are expected some time in June.

    Cheers!

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Will you be selling them in the shop Dennis?

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Quote Originally Posted by 7A434949454645664B5E5E4F2A0 link=1304666268/10#10 date=1305246056
    Will you be selling them in the shop Dennis?
    Yes, will let everyone know here in this thread when they arrive, and the cost.

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    My baskets (18g & 22g) arrived Sat morning and had the opportunity to compare the VST baskets with my Synesso double and the Expobar double that came with the Minore. Ive only used the 18g basket so far for comparative reasons. I cleaned all components, Machine, basket and grinder.

    First impressions - Better build quality than the others, with visibly more holes that are more evenly spaced, and closer to the edge. The Synesso & Expobar baskets appear simmilar except the Expobar basket is rigded. VST basket is more vertical than the others with a smaller radius at the bottom. Overall, looks and feels better to me.

    Cons - Unless you have an LM group handle or a naked handle, the basket might not fit. The straighter walls and smaller radius of the baskets do not allow it to fit into the Expobar group handle, lucky ive got a naked, but if I wanted to split shots Id need a differend handle.

    Pros - Feels like it might have a teflon type coating and the puck, post extraction, comes away easier than the others. Might seem trivial but it makes cleaning the basket easier.

    Had to change my technique for the VST baskets, grinding finer to get a simmilar extaction. I settled on a 19g of coffee and a 27 sec extraction, double ristretto, to produce aprox 28mls of coffee for each basket. I purchased some beans for consistancy (and my roaster has been waiting for parts). I used my Expobar Minore III , Mazzer Kony E, naker handle and weighed the ground coffee before shot. Yet to try it with flat burrs but I dont see this as necessary for the test.

    Conclusion so far........

    Shots seem to be more rounded. By that I mean with the Expobar & Synesso baskets, the flavour of the coffee hit all the points on my pallet I thought it would, But with the VST basket, it seemed to fill the void that I didnt notice before. The flavour seemed to be not so compartmentalised, but fuller. This also pointed out that perhaps more body was produced by the new baskets.

    Yet to try the 22g basket, and for now at least Im very happy with my $30 outlay per basket as I feel its produced a better cup, at my house anyway.

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Got mine on friday via the twitter group buy. Great results so far. I dont think im allowed to post a link to more info because theyre not a sponsor, so you might have to use google to find it. Suffice to say that many coffee people on twitter have been discussing the VST baskets and we all agree a finer grind is required, and the resulting cup has (i think) more high notes (think fruitier).

    There is no teflon coating, they are just new and shiny.

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    One and the same group buy Rival.

    Quote Originally Posted by 68736C7B76222B1A0 link=1304666268/13#13 date=1306053277
    There is no teflon coating, they are just new and shiny.
    Not so sure. No not teflon, but might be something to do with the grade of stainless steel. Think I remember hearing something about a coating for some grades.

    Will ask the metal urgest at work

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    They are made using a higher density stainless, which is why they weigh more than other baskets.

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Our 22gm baskets arrived today - the 18gm are on back order.

    I will post up some dimensions...hopefully tomorrow. Before you go spending your money on these and following whatever happens on twitter, be aware that I have noticed that they do not fit some group handles eg. those that come with the latest model VBM Junior. They do fit the Breville Dual Boiler! The 18gm will probably fit most if not all group handles.

    Ive also noticed that the 22gm basket is wider than most other large baskets Ive used. In other words you may not be happy with the way your existing tamper fits these baskets. This may explain why there have been reports of channeling when using these. I havent spent enough time with them to be certain.

    Of interest, despite the shiny finish, it seems more difficult to dislodge the spent puck.

    Im yet to decide whether the results in the cup are better (for me). They are certainly very well made and the finish quality is far superior to other baskets Ive come across.



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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Hey Den,
    I would be interested to take a look at one in the flesh!

    Re the "nominal" sizes of the filters ie calling them 18 or 22 gram.....lets not forget that when you dose up a regular or "generic" export market double filter as supplied with most commercial espresso machines, they will hold anywhere from say 18 to over 20 grams depending on the group / machine you are dosing up to....

    So the names ("18 / 22 gram basket") dont mean much to me personally until I see one in the flesh, and if the so called 18 gram one is similar to the aforementioned export market deep commercial generic filters we get on our machines, then its big enough when you consider what they actually do contain when dosed...........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Eg consider that in a normal italian market double filter such as that supplied with the rancilio silvia, we measure 16 grams....and the export market filter is the bigger one........

    Please explain ?????* :D

    Cheers,
    A.

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Attilio, it would be my pleasure to send one to you next week.

    Each of the "22gm" baskets holds approx. 1kg of coffee. ;D

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    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Quote Originally Posted by 142037213A0D113D34343737520 link=1304666268/17#17 date=1306475203
    Eg consider that in a normal italian market double filter such as that supplied with the rancilio silvia, we measure 16 grams....and the export market filter is the bigger one........

    Please explain ?????
    Ive seen the 14g ones labeled as a European or Traditional double with the 18g labeled as an American Double. The monster 28g baskets (http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1305461208) Ive seen labeled as a European/Traditional quadruple or American triple basket.

    Off the top of my head Id guess the larger baskets came along when the cafe scene started hitting it big in the US with their propensity for large milk based drinks.


    Java "Hhhhmmm....Quad shots!" phile

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Thanks you Dennis it will be my pleasure to receive and see if we can range them in our esteemed coffee house! I kilo eh....hehehehehe....then that would makew them "tardis filter baskets" ;D


    Yes Java it is* my interest to check these out and actually weigh up what we use when dosed up, and then we call it that just to confuse the issue!

    Because of the confusion over sizes or what people call various sized filters,* you will not be surprised to know that when we order filter baskets* from any supplier with whom we have not dealt with before, we usually accompany our order with a faxed tracing of the actual filter we want....there have been enough wrong filters supplied in the past and enough that dont fit various "common" group handles....

    Rgdz,
    A.


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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Quote Originally Posted by 79627D6A67333A0B0 link=1304666268/15#15 date=1306315272
    They are made using a higher density stainless, which is why they weigh more than other baskets.
    I would think that the higher density stainless has only a little to do with the extra weight of the baskets.
    I would think that the biggest difference is that they are dimensionally different. Straighter walls means a larger surface area across the bottom face = increase weight. Also looks thicker, but Im not taking one to work to measure with the micrometer or the laser :P.

    I looked into the coating used in some stainless, if I understand correctly, they add a chemical in the smelting process which gives a protective coating on the surface. Almost lifelike, if the surface is scratched, the coating grows back over the effected area.

    Not sure on food grade use tho.

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Id certainly be interested to test and review them if theyre available in Melbourne.

    No matter what I try, I can see a dead patch in the centre of my current basket - will be interesting to note if this changes with VST baskets.

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    count me in im interested
    what bout 15g baskets are they comming

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    VST 18g is where its at. For a single cup. 22g for two cups if you use spouts.

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    thingscoffee.com.au are apparently getting some in

  27. #27
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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Quote Originally Posted by 65627360732626160 link=1304666268/25#25 date=1308799894
    thingscoffee.com.au are apparently getting some in

    Getting? Got ;)

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Quote Originally Posted by 4E4B5252535F503E0 link=1304666268/26#26 date=1308893966
    Getting? Got
    How close dimensionally are the VST to the Synesso ? (as in... what are the chances a VST could replace the Synesso previously matched to a tamper?)

  29. #29
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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Similar question to the one above

    Greg I would like one X 18gr basket to be matched to my Barista Tamper
    Is matching possible ?

    KK



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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Quote Originally Posted by 456168686B6B5145617D63610E0 link=1304666268/28#28 date=1308900017
    Is matching possible ?
    Greg, same question from me.

  31. #31
    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    I took a punt that mine would fit and ordered one today!! :)

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A7A786B7C60190 link=1304666268/27#27 date=1308899636
    How close dimensionally are the VST to the Synesso ? (as in... what are the chances a VST could replace the Synesso previously matched to a tamper?)

    The ones Ive looked at in our first shipment of VSTs are pretty consistent in size (as youd hope!), time alone will tell if this remains the case. Synessos used to be perfectly consistent and predictable but in the past 18 months weve seen variations creep in such that the range of sizes is now close to half a millimetre! This is no reflection on Synesso; Sunbeams EM6910 baskets used to be perfectly predictable but not any more. Most other manufacturers have >0.5mm variation.

    So in essence that answers your question; it depends on the size of your Synesso basket! :) Simplest way is to send us the serial number on your tamper, well look it up and we can tell you whether its likely to fit.

    @KK, McCartan: Ditto.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7E6B7C7C77747877190 link=1304666268/30#30 date=1308904655
    I took a punt that mine would fit and ordered one today!! :)
    I think yours will be just OK, though itll be marginally tighter than wed normally go. The main risk with such a close tolerance as yours is that theres so little room for air to get back below the tamper as you remove it that it can suck the puck out of the basket slightly. If you find this happening remove the tamper slower, or you can send it back to us and we can shave a hairs breadth off the OD of your base.

    Greg

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Quote Originally Posted by 56534A4A4B4748260 link=1304666268/31#31 date=1309004475
    The main risk with such a close tolerance as yours is that theres so little room for air to get back below the tamper as you remove it that it can suck the puck out of the basket slightly. If you find this happening remove the tamper slower, or you can send it back to us and we can shave a hairs breadth off the OD of your base.
    Hmm, that explains a lot actually. My custom Pullman + Synesso basket seems to fracture my puck and I couldnt figure out why!

  34. #34
    Site Sponsor pullman's Avatar
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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Odd, it shouldnt be the tamper / basket combo as we would (should!) have supplied them sized correctly. Tilt the tamper to one side in the basket with the top of the chamfer level with the top of the basket and note how many rings you can see on the other side. Email me the results and well see if its that.

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Who would we contact, locally, to possibly purchase a VST Machined FB.* *If there is a local retailer;* what size baskets do they have??* *Or am I jumping too soon??? [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]

  36. #36
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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Hi Newbie,

    Contact Cosmorex in the first instance; not sure if they have any but theyre local to you. If they dont have them they may be able to get them in for you. Finally, if you have no luck locally we can provide you one through our website thingscoffee.com.au and with coupon code VST4snobs you get a $5 discount on shipping.

    Greg

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Picked up an 18g basket from Greg the other day... It was a bit more than the Synessos he had in the cupboard and when you look at the two side by side - there is a huge difference..

    I cant say that there is an earth shattering difference in the shots between my Synesso and the VST. But there is a difference!

    When you hold the two up to the light, you can eyeball the fact that the VST seems to have a lot more holes... Extraction proceeds with a tad less backpressure - especially with the Wega in the Tea room at work! A slightly finer grind..

    So - not the most astounding change, but I have to say I prefer the VST.

    /Kevin

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    Senior Member greenman's Avatar
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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    VST arrived today, tamper fit is snug but caused no problems, had to set grinder slightly finer than for my Synesso Basket, espresso pours were nice and even with naked pf, had to tap extra hard to release puck into the knockbox--only pulled a few shots but lookin the goods 8-) :) :)

  39. #39
    Gra
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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Quote Originally Posted by 70657272797A7679170 link=1304666269/37#37 date=1309778794
    VST arrived today, tamper fit is snug but caused no problems, had to set grinder slightly finer than for my Synesso Basket, espresso pours were nice and even with naked pf, had to tap extra hard to release puck into the knockbox--only pulled a few shots but lookin the goods 8-) :) :)
    Been using a 18g for a week now and loving it :) I have found the same it takes two hits to dump the puck, Feed back from friends is all good as to whats in the cup..

    Cheers gra,,

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Usually a smaller dose will help you dump the puck - where it takes two taps to dump is usually where its expanded into the ridged area.


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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Would the 18g fit in a Silvia portafilter (my Silvia I think is about 3 years old)

    Portafilter is not naked, just a normal one

    Is the difference really as noticable as everyone says, does it make getting a good shot any more difficult or easy?

    @Greg - if I was looking at getting one of these from you, is it possible to match the size up to my pullman if I was to supply the serial number (where do I find it, im guessing id have to take the handle off and it would be on the metal base?)

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Quote Originally Posted by 372F352834333E25282E470 link=1304666269/40#40 date=1310702962
    @Greg - if I was looking at getting one of these from you, is it possible to match the size up to my pullman if I was to supply the serial number (where do I find it, im guessing id have to take the handle off and it would be on the metal base?)
    Probably best to e-mail Greg/Robin for that. Speaking from my personal experience, I was advised to resize my tamper when I was deciding to change from the existing Synesso basket to the VST basket.

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Hi Phrosty,

    It should fit fine; its basically the same height as a Synesso which went into my Silvia fine when I had it. Id use one for no other reason than the fact I like using well-made equipment and these are a magnificently made basket; if theres an improvement in shot quality as many are reporting then so much the better! ;)

    Yep if you supply your tamper serial number we can tell you if your basket will fit one of the VSTs we have. Like all baskets they do vary a bit in diameter though the difference is less than most others, and the plan in the future is to tighten this up further. Were measuring all the baskets were getting in so we can easily supply you a basket that will fit your tamper providing its in the right range. The serial numbers stamped into the top of the base; unscrew the handle and youll see it.

    Greg

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    Re: VST PRESSED Filter Baskets

    Id just correct the title on this thread and say that VST baskets are NOT "MACHINED".

    VST baskets are pressed in dies like all other baskets; however a lot more care is paid to the specifications, particularly the holes, than with other baskets so their accuracy and performance is much better than traditional die-pressed baskets.

    This doesnt affect any other comments about these baskets, its just a correction of terminology.

    Greg

  45. #45
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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    :-?It says on the manufacturers website, "Holes are fabricated using a new micro-machine and finishing process."

    Thankyou for the confusion Greg! :-/ ;D

  46. #46
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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Quote Originally Posted by 7B637964787F726964620B0 link=1304666269/40#40 date=1310702962
    Would the 18g fit in a Silvia portafilter (my Silvia I think is about 3 years old)
    Just put the 18g basket in the Silvia to see Phrosty - it fits... Just like a glove ;D

    /Kevin

  47. #47
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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Well I have had mine for a week, both at home with the GS/3 and at the shed. I am not sold yet.

    I am pretty certain the combo of saturated group, sproline screen and VST is a significant* [smiley=thumbdown.gif] and the cup results are definitely better with the Synesso basket at home.

    The overwhelming feeling is a longer preinfusion and a shot in 2 parts. I dont like the pour beyond ristretto length at all. I plan to ditch the VST at home.

    I have them in the Faema at the shed and I think they suit it better, but the jurys still out. Ill play some more on Saturday. Gut feeling is that if you want to head out to more traditional length shots, VST may not be the answer.

    Chris

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Absolutely loving the VSTs at the moment. Had to go a few clicks finer on my Kony and the pours have been beautiful. Increased sweetness in the shot, and the big advantage of reduced blonding.

    All in all, a much more balanced espresso.

    I was hesitant at first, but once I improved my technique, the results have been superb. And this is supported by thousands of coffee professionals around the world. So do yourself a favour - grab one of these baskets from a sponsor and enjoy! :)

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    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Quote Originally Posted by 555D52545C0603370 link=1304666269/47#47 date=1311209454
    Had to go a few clicks finer on my Kony and the pours have been beautiful. Increased sweetness in the shot...

    All in all, a much more balanced espresso.
    Therein probably lies the secret.... You should notice slightly more body too.

    Now all youve got to do is tailor your roasts to suit a finer grind extraction, and get even more out of your coffee 8-)

    Mal.

  50. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    284

    Re: VST Machined Filter Baskets

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Which of our CoffeeSnobs sponsors in Melbourne sell the VST baskets?

    Is there a 22 gram basket available for a Rocket Giotto Evoluzione?



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