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Thread: Silvia Basket/Tamper

  1. #1
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    Silvia Basket/Tamper

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Well how silly am I. For about 4 years have been using a Silvia on and off with the original baskets. Bought a 58mm tamper which my understanding from what I have read is the correct size.... but I now realise that it is wrong size for me.. I have the naked portafiller which comes with a Quad Basket and I have the original single and double baskets.. I am the only coffee drinker in the house and the quad is to big and the single is too difficult to use...to much and cant lock the portafiller... to little and I cant tamp it properly.. so have been underfilling the double basket...

    There is a ridge halfway down the basket where it starts to taper inward. I have only just realised that the tamper does not go further down then that line where it starts to taper.

    It took me 4 years to work out what was happening derrrr.. it seemed to tamp properly but actually because I was underfilling it was not tamping beyond a certain level...

    Went and got a 55mm tamper and what a difference...

    Is this a common problem? do people usually underfill baskets?

    Cheers

  2. #2
    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Re: Silvia Basket/Tamper

    cruza, have you tried the 5 cents test or the rice test? I dont think the tamper is the issue. 58mm is the correct size for your portafilter. Get your coffee dose/level correct first. Do the tests and see where you should be dosing and tamping to.

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    Re: Silvia Basket/Tamper

    Thanks Saoye but this seems to be an exercise for determining if overfilling? With a double basket and underfilling it barely reaches the screen.. and like I said...the single basket is just too hard to control... if the double was properly dosed the coffee would be too strong for my liking anyway

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    Senior Member saoye's Avatar
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    Re: Silvia Basket/Tamper

    Quote Originally Posted by 6E7F78776C383F0D0 link=1335262305/2#2 date=1335310220
    Thanks Saoye but this seems to be an exercise for determining if overfilling

    Hi Cruza52, no they are both tests to tell you the correct "fill" for your basket, not over or under. The 5 cents test will tell you the exact amount to dose. Basically you do the 5 cents test and then you can physically weigh the grind to tell you exactly how much to dose next time for any basket, single, double or quad. The rice test will tell you where your tamper should reach all the time when you tamp. By the way, I use the single effectively all the time on my Giotto. Once you get the grind and dose/tamp level right you can get it consistant all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6E7F78776C383F0D0 link=1335262305/2#2 date=1335310220
    if the double was properly dosed the coffee would be too strong for my liking anyway
    What do you mean "strong"? If by strong you mean bitter then I think it may be more bitter if you underdose since more likely you would be blonding far quicker with an underdose and if you let it run for the full 30 seconds with too much blonding then that would be a bitter coffee.

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    Re: Silvia Basket/Tamper

    I cant believe this guy is a coffeesnob* :D

    As I read this Im just all smiles, I think you would find your coffee improve ten fold if you got yourself some training or used this sites wealth of knowledge.

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    Re: Silvia Basket/Tamper

    Well thanks .... I have done my own research and found it myself... certainly looks like there are more idiots in the world with my problem..

    "This 14 gram portafilter basket while not an original La Marzocco part, is quite popular amongst those who have realized its benefits.

    This is the infamous double basket without a retaining ridge. So whats the big deal and why is it so popular? Well lets just say that a little mistake was made, and the ridge was not placed in the basket. Turns out that this was one of those advantageous mistakes that has been beneficial to those who enjoy the perfect espresso. The lack of a retaining ridge allows the use of a 58mm hand tamp and the the pattern and hole aperture of the basket proves to be beneficial to espresso preparation. Perfect for prosumer machines like the Rancilio Silvia and others. We requested another round of mistakes and here they are!"

    Guess I am not a coffeesnob and Dont think I will be back to this site




  7. #7
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Silvia Basket/Tamper

    Quote Originally Posted by 4F5E59564D191E2C0 link=1335262305/5#5 date=1335338563
    Guess I am not a coffeesnob and Dont think I will be back to this site
    Dont let the remarks of one clown turn you against Coffee Snobs Cruza, nobody likes a smart ass. ;) I used a LaMarzocco ridgeless double in my Silvia for years and still use one in my current machine, excellent baskets. :)

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    Re: Silvia Basket/Tamper

    Quote Originally Posted by 474C564D57484A43240 link=1335262305/4#4 date=1335333820
    I cant believe this guy is a coffeesnob* :D

    As I read this Im just all smiles, I think you would find your coffee improve ten fold if you got yourself some training or used this sites wealth of knowledge.
    Youve obviously got the game sewn up ITC so instead of sarcasm why not offer some helpful advice. >:(

  9. #9
    TC
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    Re: Silvia Basket/Tamper

    Agreed- the LM ridgeless is fine. It may be best to dose a little higher though. Use the 58mm and adjust your grind accordingly. Adjust the volume of coffee you use to your personal tastes.

    A short shot from higher dose will not necessarily lead to a stronger coffee and an underdose can lead to all sorts of other issues. If the puck is wet and sloppy, its an indication that you can dose higher.

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    Re: Silvia Basket/Tamper

    Apologies Cruza, bit nasty of me

    No offence intended I didnt mean to imply anything, silly remark really.

    But yes having a ridge does create a false tamp and if you under dose essentially you are compressing the walls of the basket rather than the puck.

    By filling the basket more you are not increasing the strength of the shot but rather allowing the optimum mix of water to coffee extract among other factors such as tamp and grind. As for strength it is up to you to stop the shot at a point where it suits your taste. The longer you let the extraction run the more coffee to milk you will have, thus the stronger taste. Ideally you should stop your shot as it begins to wriggle around and blonde.

    If your not the type to drink straight espresso you should just try to sip the shot before adding milk as you taste buds will learn the difference between over and under extraction and what a smooth balanced shot tastes like and the visual of the extraction will guide you for future tweaks, bean types etc.

    As for how much to dose, on the Silvia you have a hex bolt on the screen. This is the guide. I would recommend filling just below this. So pop in the portafilter and out again and see if the puck has been disturbed by the bolt. If not dose a little more until you see a slight impression and this will be the correct level. Once you got this then the grind size is your next target and this is determined by pulling the shot and see how fast/slow it pours. Remember as with all grinders the finer you go the longer the grind time and vice versa and also it will compress smaller so try to tamp the same pressure. I do this by looking at how far my tamper goes into the basket and tamp to this.

    As for tamping you donít need to go nuts, just firm and level. Place your fingers over the edge of the base of your tamper and turn with fingers across the rim of the basket. This will give you a sense of how level your tamping is.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Silvia Basket/Tamper

    Quote Originally Posted by 72796378627D7F76110 link=1335262305/9#9 date=1335406879
    Apologies Cruza, bit nasty of me* *

    No offence intended I didnt mean to imply anything, silly remark really.

    But yes having a ridge does create a false tamp and if you under dose essentially you are compressing the walls of the basket rather than the puck.

    By filling the basket more you are not increasing the strength of the shot but rather allowing the optimum mix of water to coffee extract among other factors such as tamp and grind. As for strength it is up to you to stop the shot at a point where it suits your taste. The longer you let the extraction run the more coffee to milk you will have, thus the stronger taste. Ideally you should stop your shot as it begins to wriggle around and blonde.

    If your not the type to drink straight espresso you should just try to sip the shot before adding milk as you taste buds will learn the difference between over and under extraction and what a smooth balanced shot tastes like and the visual of the extraction will guide you for future tweaks, bean types etc.

    As for how much to dose, on the Silvia you have a hex bolt on the screen. This is the guide. I would recommend filling just below this. So pop in the portafilter and out again and see if the puck has been disturbed by the bolt. If not dose a little more until you see a slight impression and this will be the correct level. Once you got this then the grind size is your next target and this is determined by pulling the shot and see how fast/slow it pours. Remember as with all grinders the finer you go the longer the grind time and vice versa and also it will compress smaller so try to tamp the same pressure. I do this by looking at how far my tamper goes into the basket and tamp to this.

    As for tamping you donít need to go nuts, just firm and level. Place your fingers over the edge of the base of your tamper and turn with fingers across the rim of the basket. This will give you a sense of how level your tamping is.
    Well said ITC. ;)

  12. #12
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    Re: Silvia Basket/Tamper

    Quote Originally Posted by 5D564C574D5250593E0 link=1335262305/9#9 date=1335406879
    As for
    Place your fingers over the edge of the base of your tamper and turn with fingers across the rim of the basket. This will give you a sense of how level your tamping is.
    If while doing this you rotate the tamper, i.e. polish the puck, you will feel any deviation through your finger tips, tamp one way off level then rotate the tamper with three fingers approx equidistant touching the the basket rim, you will see what Im getting at. ;)

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    Re: Silvia Basket/Tamper

    Thanks InThe Cup.. What I meant was that I have done the mod to the screen and countersunk the screw...but finding 14g in the 14g double basket supplied still makes it too tight to lock the group handle. So I have been dosing 12g which is fine but brings into play the ridge and my tamper diameter.

    What I meant by stong coffee is the caffeine.. I love my coffee and usually wake up 2 - 3 hours before work and get in 2-3-4 shots while on the comp or reading.. and then more at work

  14. #14
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    Re: Silvia Basket/Tamper

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Get a synesso basket. You will see a definate improvement to the pour in your shots; baskets without a ridge aso tap out much cleaner.

    As for what your experiencing is the pour really quick. As I mentioned if you are grinding too coarse if will run fast. In addition grinding too coarse wont allow you to compress the coffee as much leading to what appears to be an overdose.

    In order for us to really help, it yould be great if you filmed your shot, alternatively at 10g whats happening?. This is a shot I done the other day, is your similar?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhx6rNREMQI



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