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Thread: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

  1. #1
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    descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    as i just found out with 2mcm, descale your machines every six months!..so when we set our clocks an hour foward in the coming months and change our smoke alarm batteries,im descaling my machine...today the amount of green liquid that came out in 10 months of use was surprising...oh and you can taste the difference..so descale today and youll have no sticking valves in six months time...!

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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    and i used filtered water...

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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Thats a handy hint, Mr Fox. What is your location?

    Does your filter have an ion exchange?

    --Robusto

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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    melb here.......and the filter is a brita 5lt cask with a digital timer to replace the filter..every four to five weeks..

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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Errm, I do my descaling once a month. But then I live in Adelaide and I do use rainwater too.

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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Just a thought...

    a)
    For those of you with semi commercials with internal water reservoirs that dont have a "water softener" on the end of the water pick up line, there is usually no reason why you cant simply add one....its only a push on fit onto the end of the silicon tube.

    Instead of descaling the machine then, you simply regenerate the softener from time to time depending on the quality of your local water and the amount of throughput your machine is subject to. Its (a lot) easier *than descaling the machine.

    We have them, as they are standard equipment on our Diadema Juniors and Unico Splendors.

    b)
    For those of you with machines connected to the mains, we have simple "in line" water filter kits that release an anti-scaling agent. Its a lot easier to change the filter (a bayonet fitting & only a few seconds to replace) than to go descaling the equipment.

    Its easier to stop the stuff forming in the first place (to a greater degree) than it is to remove it.

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    absolutely....try and prevent anything as much as you can. fix the root cause, and if it still happens, atleast it is a lot more delayed and less frequent.

    much like how dosing and distribution if often neglected. no amount of leveling will help you fix up a dodgy distribution. fix the root cause.

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    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Im lucky my Expobar has the softener already as descaling was one job I wasnt looking forward to.
    Ive regenerated the softener once already and it was definitely easy.

    I dont see why all machines dont have them.
    As FC said "its only a push on fit onto the end of the silicon tube".

  9. #9
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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1175073473/0#7 date=1175651922
    Im lucky my Expobar has the softener already as descaling was one job I wasnt looking forward to.
    Ive regenerated the softener once already and it was definitely easy.

    I dont see why all machines dont have them.
    As FC said "its only a push on fit onto the end of the silicon tube".
    TG- you should regenerate the softener about every 3 weeks with normal use...

    2mcm

  10. #10
    Flo
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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Hey 2mcm...what is the story re: softening and Giotto? Recommended or not?

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    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1175073473/0#8 date=1175653955
    TG- you should regenerate the softener about every 3 weeks with normal use...

    2mcm
    What do you consider normal use?

    *Schedules next recharge*

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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1175073473/0#10 date=1175664032
    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1175073473/0#8 date=1175653955
    * *
    TG- you should regenerate the softener about every 3 weeks with normal use...

    2mcm
    What do you consider normal use?

    *Schedules next recharge*
    Do it every three weeks TG...you cannot overservice the gel....

  13. #13
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Thanks.

    (Damn - need a spreadsheet now for all my cleaning tasks)

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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by Flo link=1175073473/0#9 date=1175662272
    Hey 2mcm...what is the story re: softening and Giotto? Recommended or not?
    Yes Flo- recommended....The unique water pickup in the Giotto means that you should fill the machine with filtered, softened water....FCs in tank softeners are sadly not suitable as there are no silicon water tubes....

    2mcm

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1175073473/0#13 date=1175665893
    Quote Originally Posted by Flo link=1175073473/0#9 date=1175662272
    Hey 2mcm...what is the story re: softening and Giotto? Recommended or not?
    Yes Flo- recommended....The unique water pickup in the Giotto means that you should fill the machine with filtered, softened water....FCs in tank softeners are sadly not suitable as there are no silicon water tubes....

    2mcm
    Not sure I understand - if water softeners are recommended for the giotto, what are my options please Chris? btw - I already use filtered water from a pretty good under-sink system.

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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis link=1175073473/0#14 date=1175670982
    Not sure I understand - if water softeners are recommended for the giotto, what are my options please Chris? btw - I already use filtered water from a pretty good under-sink system.
    Dennis,

    The standard under sink units do nothing to remove hardness (prevent scale build up in your boiler).

    The options are :

    Britta Jug (filter replaced frequently)
    Water softener commercial machine size (recharged with salt every month or so)
    Water softener cartridge (replaced at recommended intervals)...

    F.C sells the last two.

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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Sounds great Dennis. I was suggesting that because an in tank softeners are impossible for a Giotto, owners should use filtered, softened water. Sounds like yours comes from your kitchen tap! Expobar, Unico and Diadema all have in-tank softeners and they can easily (and I would suggest should) be added to Silvias and any other machine with silicon water tubes living in tanks....

    I use a jug...

    One thing to keep in mind is that Reverse Osmosis water KILLS machines (were looking at you, WA residents ;)) unless you then add ions to the filtered product and in the correct proportions....

  18. #18
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Ok, am now starting to panic...I had a laugh

    Have just come up from under the sink and we have a clearwater, twin cartridge filtration system. I understand this would not soften, but just keep out the yukky stuff.

    Dont want a brita - look at me...I cant fit another appliance anywhere.

    Should I just pm cosmorex and hope he has something I can throw in the tank???

  19. #19
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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    No can do Dennis- why not add a softener cartridge to your under sink?

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1175073473/15#18 date=1175673369
    No can do Dennis- why not add a softener cartridge to your under sink?
    Thanks - will contact clearwater to investigate how this can be achieved

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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    That brand you mentioned Dennis (which supplied the under-sink filtration on my boat: silver-impregnated activated charcoal to get rid of the taste of stagnation and sundry other tastes--works well) and they do have a softener cartridge, but I think it is disposable and therefore costly.

    Youre probably better off using the proprietary ones which recharge with salt.

    -Robusto

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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by Fresh_Coffee link=1175073473/0#5 date=1175571716
    Just a thought...

    a)
    For those of you with semi commercials with internal water reservoirs that dont have a "water softener" on the end of the water pick up line, there is usually no reason why you cant simply add one....its only a push on fit onto the end of the silicon tube.

    Instead of descaling the machine then, you simply regenerate the softener from time to time depending on the quality of your local water and the amount of throughput your machine is subject to. Its (a lot) easier than descaling the machine.

    We have them, as they are standard equipment on our Diadema Juniors and Unico Splendors.

    Its easier to stop the stuff forming in the first place (to a greater degree) than it is to remove it.

    Regardz,
    FC.
    I have the Unico Splendor with the softener attached, how do I regenerate it? (scratches head trying not to look too dumb)

  23. #23
    Flo
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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1175073473/0#13 date=1175665893
    Quote Originally Posted by Flo link=1175073473/0#9 date=1175662272
    Hey 2mcm...what is the story re: softening and Giotto? Recommended or not?
    Yes Flo- recommended....The unique water pickup in the Giotto means that you should fill the machine with filtered, softened water....FCs in tank softeners are sadly not suitable as there are no silicon water tubes....

    2mcm
    I just use a Brita Jug with the Maxtra cartridge for filtration...Ok or should I be using something else?

  24. #24
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    So as my Expobar already has the softener in the tank is my Brita filtered water just overkill?

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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1175073473/15#23 date=1175692615
    So as my Expobar already has the softener in the tank is my Brita filtered water just overkill?
    Thundergod,

    All types of scale removal filtration (with the possible exception of reverse osmosis - and of course distillation) only reduce the percentage of calcium. Even my commercial water softener leaves some calcium salts....

    So the more stages of filtration the better... And as FC said - it is easier to stop the stuff forming in the first place.


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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Good to know.

    Thanks.

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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Ok, regenerating this thread. I removed the cartridge from my Expobar Minore when I bought it. It believe it might have been the softnener cartridge. I was adviced it was OK to remove it since the resulting pour would come out yellow... I use a Sunbeam filtered water dispenser but now having now read this - have I done a bad thing even though I use filtered water?

    If I need to put it back, does it matter which tube it goes onto (there are 2 in the Expobar)?

    Been a year now since I bought it.... *nervous*

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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by 30in30 link=1175073473/15#26 date=1212406423
    If I need to put it back, does it matter which tube it goes onto (there are 2 in the Expobar)?
    Gday 30,

    Seems like strange advice to give you :-?..... But anyway, you need to reconnect it to the tube that leads to the suction input of your pump. The other tube will be the Bypass line from your OPV.... :)

    Cheers,
    Mal.

  29. #29
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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Many filters are one-way. Look for an arrow on your filter indicating the direction of water flow. If theres no arrow then it probably doesnt matter which way its hooked up. :)


    Java "Filtering reality" phile

  30. #30
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    The Expobar filter sits at the end of the line.
    So it can only be connected from the right end.

    The trick is to pick which of the two tubes.

    If you cant see which one is drawing the water out then put in the blind filter and see which tube puts the water back into the reservoir when the OPV kicks in.
    It will then be the other tube.

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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Just an observation...

    On my pablo, the tube for the filter has a square cut end while the return tube is cut at an angle.

    The filter tube is also a couple of cm longer.

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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Quote Originally Posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1175073473/15#16 date=1175671923
    I use a jug...


    This is what I use. Just boil the jug the night B4.




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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Mal/Javaphile/Thundergod/Wingnut --> Thanks a million guys, will take advice and put it back in.

    Wingnut, inspected the tubes and sure enough its exactly as you described.

    Hornet, its actually normal practice for me to boil water, put in filter dispenser, then pour into the machine. I am pedantic? Yeah, probably ::)

    Cheers, Andrew

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    Re: descalling...when??DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Hi Guys,

    All of these are solved problems and I think that many of you are at the stage where you might be interested in tackling The Insanely Long Water FAQ.

    A few things that I took from it:

    (a) Brita filters are not designed to remove scale. They will do so, but getting good performance out of them requires replacing them more often than youd think.

    (b) The ion exchange softeners at the end of the silicon tube in your tank probably needs to be recharged more often than youd think, too.

    Jims conclusion:

    I personally think home machine users are better served using neutral or harder water and preventively descaling. At home use levels, the 5 gram scale accumulation criterion will only require monthly to quarterly descaling, and the coffee taste will be at its best whenever the water is at 90/50 or above, since the machine will reduce it to that level by heating it. Whether or not to soften the water down to this level depends on how hard the tap water is; if the water is very hard, descaling could become a weekly chore, and such a partial softening could be preferable.

    Theres several ways to do this. The conceptually simplest is to boil the water for a few minutes; this removes hardness in excess of coffee levels. I use my Brita jug for all drinking water, since my water is cloudy from old pipes; its incomplete softening, or that of the hose end softener in a warm tank, also makes for a tasty espresso. Finally, tap water can be diluted with RO water to reach any hardness level one wants.
    Those of us with HX machines would do well to remember that scale can potentially clog up the thermosyphon and make your group run at a lower temperature than youd like. I still havent tackled the "mushroom" in my group, but will do so at some stage.

    Cheers,

    Luca



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