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Thread: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

  1. #1
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    Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hello, newbie reporting in!

    Have been lurking for a while and now that Im more likely than ever to throw our current rust-heap DeLonghi masquerading as an espresso machine (not doing a terribly good job of it) I need some advice with regards to our upgrade.

    Needless to say my mind wanders towards the Siliva/Rocky combination and stays there frequently. However, I have read that it can be fiddly. Now I dont have a problem with that, but I expect my other half would. I fear that every time hed make me a coffee Id be disappointed. I think he may require something more fool-proof (alhtough youd think a software engineer should be able to pay attention to the finer details of coffee making?).

    So Im exploring options which may be more forgiving on the inexperienced and not very interested barrista. I think my goal is to have a decent cup most of the time, rather than an excellent one.

    What I have been looking at is the Gaggia Classic, but because of the corrosion issues Ive been reading about (is this a common occurrence BTW?) Im not that thrilled with the idea. And if I go for this, which grinder would suit?

    Then sometimes the mind wanders towards the automated option. The in-laws have a Saeco Magic DeLuxe, which has been quite consistent in churning out decent cups for a number of years now, although it has been in for repairs a few times too. The reason Im considering this is the arrival of baby #2 which will mean that the push of the button in the morning seems a reasonable one. Ive read that the Gaggia Syncrony is basically a Saeco DeLuxe? So thats another consideration. But for that kind of money...is it worth it?

    The head spins...are there any other good options out there that Im not aware of? What in your mind is the best option?

    Eternally grateful for advice! Im at the end of my tether with the rusting, leaking and falling to bits DeLonghi. I cannot stand it anymore. A new machine purchase is imminent!!!!!

  2. #2
    Senior Member robusto's Avatar
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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Congratulations on your first post, and welcome Miamoo.

    Making a choice is indeed difficult. But luckily this subject has been covered frequently here. Rather than repeat it, Id suggest you look back through the posts, such as this: or do a Google search of this site.

    http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1163234999

    or do a Google search of this site.

    Consider isues such as: Is it primarily for espressos? Superautomatics will do them quickly and conveniently but the product will be disappointing.

    Milk drinks (such as lattes)?

    How many per session? Youll need a costly heat exchanger machine if you want to make coffee and steam milk simultaneously or in three or more cup volumes.

    Have fun with the research.

    --Robusto

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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    miamoo

    I would have thought a software engineer would present you with an array of mourning brews:
    the BETA latte, Lattev1.0, v1.0a, v1.0b.......et al, Latte v2.0, XP-resso, XP-resso 2007+ service pack, MACchiatto etc , finally concluding that the machine needs to be turned off and on.


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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Welcome Miamoo,
    the other option is to contact one of the site sponsors directly.
    They are all more than happy to answer any questions you may have and can even demo the machines for you so that you can get a better picture of what you need and what will suit your lifestyle.

    Frankie

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    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Quote Originally Posted by reubster link=1175633576/0#2 date=1175643222
    XP-resso............finally concluding that the machine needs to be turned off and *on.
    10/10 *;D

    Welcome from me too Miamoo.

    I second talking to the site sponsors.
    You can discuss requirements and budget with them and get a great deal (I did).

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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Quote Originally Posted by reubster link=1175633576/0#2 date=1175643222
    miamoo

    I would have thought a software engineer would present you with an array of mourning brews:
    the BETA latte, Lattev1.0, v1.0a, v1.0b.......et al, Latte v2.0, XP-resso, XP-resso 2007+ service pack, MACchiatto etc , finally concluding that the machine needs to be turned off and *on.
    I had a laugh ;D

    Thanks for the advice guys. Will check site sponsors out!

  7. #7
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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Well some may tell you super autos will give go an ordinary cup, I recon a Jura C5, great coffee easy to use and setup.

    I have one and it makes a GREAT cup every time, even my better half can make awesome Cappas and Lattes.

    No messing about we often have two cups out in less than 2 minutes even if we have to switch it on.

    They cost a bit more but well worth having

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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee_guy link=1175633576/0#6 date=1175765859
    Well some may tell you super autos will give go an ordinary cup, I recon a Jura C5, great coffee easy to use and setup.

    I have one and it makes a GREAT cup every time, even my better half can make awesome Cappas and Lattes.

    No messing about we often have two cups out in less than 2 minutes even if we have to switch it on.

    They cost a bit more but well worth having
    Im gonna enter a superauto v David Makin and Scotty in the Nats ;).....Next, mass redundancies for baristi and world domination- Dr Evil style... [smiley=evil.gif]

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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Hey, the way that Dave and Scott breeze through barista comps without thinking kinda makes me suspect that they are superautomatics ;P

    Getting back to your post, Miamoo, there are a range of options out there and, unfortunately, you will always have to balance price, drink quality, build quality, convenience and cleanliness. Frankly, it will be MUCH easier and more efficient to just pick up the phone and call one of the sponsors, rather than trying to go off a convoluted system of posts!

    The point that I really wanted to make is that, whatever you end up getting, a french press/plunger should definitely be tacked on if you dont already have one. Espresso machines vary greatly, whereas once you have a good grinder and good beans, you can have the ultimate french press experience for a mere $20 or so. With kids, if mornings get busy for you, you can have great coffee after just spending a few seconds effort grinding coffee and putting the kettle on.

    Cheers,

    Luca

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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Im gonna enter a superauto v David Makin and Scotty in the Nats ;).....Next, mass redundancies for baristi and world domination- Dr Evil style... [smiley=evil.gif]
    ;D ;D

    Msst time I get bad coffee its bad baristi not bad machines, most machines will make resonable coffee, given that some do make better than others, GOOD superautos just make it easy for those who are not great make a good cup. I mean its hard to stuff up pressing a button (but there are people that do *;) )

    Also what works in a *one machine will not always work well in another.

    The truth is maybe 85% or more of people couldnt tell if a coffee was made in a superauto or not and a good superauto coffee will ALWAYS be better than a bad barista coffee.

    :) :) ;)

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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Coffee_guy link=1175633576/0#9 date=1175806317
    Im gonna enter a superauto v David Makin and Scotty in the Nats ;).....Next, mass redundancies for baristi and world domination- Dr Evil style... [smiley=evil.gif]
    ;D ;D

    Msst time I get bad coffee its bad baristi not bad machines, most machines will make resonable coffee, given that some do make better than others, GOOD superautos just make it easy for those who are not great make a good cup. I mean its hard to stuff up pressing a button (but there are people that do *;) )

    Also what works in a *one machine will not always work well in another.

    The truth is maybe 85% or more of people couldnt tell if a coffee was made in a superauto or not and a good superauto coffee will ALWAYS be better than a bad barista coffee.

    :) :) ;)
    Agreed- problem is that we here are part of the other 15%. We can also tell the difference between fresh roasted and stale 3 year use by Italian import coffee. Superautos make good average coffee- if theyre well calibrated- which is extremely rare. I hate good average coffee and thats why superautos and most cafes are on the black list. ;)

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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    No control, no craft, just automation. Remote-controlled society.

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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Miamoo link=1175633576/0#0 date=1175633576
    The head spins...are there any other good options out there that Im not aware of? What in your mind is the best option?

    Eternally grateful for advice! Im at the end of my tether with the rusting, leaking and falling to bits DeLonghi. I cannot stand it anymore. A new machine purchase is imminent!!!!!
    I think that you should purchase a beautiful machine for your own use, team it up with a great grinder and buy a French press for your other half to use when required!! :D

    Theres nothing like having a bit of bling on your bench to impress family and friends. And if its suitably bling enough none of them will be game enough to touch it for fear of hurting your feelings! (as I recently found out. Silvia is impressive and scary enough to keep even the most desparate away!) So, I just set them up with the French press and fresh ground coffee, worked a treat. The truly desparate drank instant...::shudders::

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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Well....weve come to a decision in our purchase. Were going with the Lelit Combi !! Im super excited about this!!

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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    As a Classic Owner I can recommend them as a great machine that even the disinterested barista can use (I have one of those in my home too). Mine is teamed with a Gaggia MDF grinder, the two together is about $800 - $900.

    With a teeny bit of practice (like anything) you can get great coffee out of it. When I say teeny, I mean it. They are pretty easy and quick to use once you get used to them. I leave mine on all day and have 2-3 coffees all day and it takes me just a few minutes to make a coffee. (after grinding the coffee, tamping etc etc)

    As for the corrosion issue, I have not experienced that problem at all. i have also not heard or read of anybody on here who has had that issue, or anywhere else for that matter. Depending on where you you live you do need to make sure you de scale it regularly, I am in Adelaide and use my classic everyday and descale it monthly. it takes about an hour (or less) to do.

    My advice is to keep away from the superautos - they really are an expensive item that have a nasty habit of needing a lot of repairs and really do not give you a cofee as good as what you can get out of a gaggia or sylvia. Maintaining them can be a nightmare.

    The one advantage the Gaggia has over the Sylvia that I have read is that the machine takes about 10minutes to heat up once switched on, over the Sylvia which takes up to 30 minutes.

    It all depends on your budget - especially with baby coming, and how much you are willing to spend. You cant go wrong with either the classic or the sylvia, both have their pros and cons, one is just more expensive than the other.

  16. #16
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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Miamoo link=1175633576/0#13 date=1175911227
    Well....weve come to a decision in our purchase. Were going with the Lelit Combi !! Im super excited about this!!
    Congrats.

    So its a Lelit PL042, a.k.a. Imat Mokita Combi, a.k.a. Quaha Napoletana II,
    which sports a built-in Lux grinder?


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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Miamoo....

    That is quite a capable combo.... so it should perform very well for you.

    One thing to be aware of with combos.... the grinder and hopper are heated by the heat from the boiler..... beans like to be kept cool or they age (go stale) very quickly....

    The best thing is to only put in as many beans as you are going to grind straight away into the hopper each time.

  18. #18
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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Good choice Miamoo,

    This little setup is capable of producing excellent espresso and will keep on doing so for a long, long time .....I used to have the Imat Mokita without the inbuilt grinder. Dont forget to keep us in the loop of ongoing progress and of course, lots of piccies ;),

    Cheers,
    Mal.

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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaB link=1175633576/15#16 date=1175927426
    Miamoo....

    That is quite a capable combo.... so it should perform very well for you.

    One thing to be aware of with combos.... the grinder and hopper are heated by the heat from the boiler..... beans like to be kept cool or they age (go stale) very quickly....

    The best thing is to only put in as many beans as you are going to grind straight away into the hopper each time.
    I (and I think most of us) do that anyway with my non built in grinder.

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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1175633576/15#18 date=1175943062
    I (and I think most of us) do that anyway with my non built in grinder.
    Yep, true - if you want fresh beans its the only option...... but when the hopper is built into a machine (super autos are another good example) the owner often chooses that type of machine for convenience and doesnt know about / hasnt thought about the freshness of the beans....... And the "set and forget" mentality promoted by these machines will cost heaps in the flavour department...... (and its generally a LOT harder to empty a built in hopper).

    Even cafe baristas are told to empty the hopper each night (and wipe out any coffee oils left behind which might go rancid) and to store the beans correctly....

  21. #21
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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    I considered the Imat when doing my research for buying a machine.
    The space taken up being the main factor.
    If warned beforehand (as we have) theres no reason not to be able to maximise freshness.
    The point I was trying to make and hopefully did, was that there really should be no difference in that regard if only enough beans are used for each session.

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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1175633576/15#20 date=1175944665
    The point I was trying to make and hopefully did, was that there really should be no difference in that regard if only enough beans are used for each session.
    Yep, game, set and match on that point ;) ;D

    I have been thinking about what you said re "and I think most of us" and Im wondering if that really is the case. I know thats how I operate - and I suspect many do..... but I wonder what percentage leave beans in the hopper?

    When you look at how many members admit to using supermarket (or near equivalent) beans..... I doubt these members are loading their grinder "on demand" (and what would be the point in any case?)........and there are probably a lot of others who buy quality pre roasted or roast their own who also dont look after them to ensure freshness.....

    Might make an interesting poll ::)

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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaB link=1175633576/15#21 date=1175945416
    Might make an interesting poll ::)
    Just what I was thinking as I read your post.

    So do you think theyll out themselves if we lauch a poll?

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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1175633576/15#22 date=1175946073

    So do you think theyll out themselves if we lauch a poll?
    If worded "correctly" I dont see why not....... in fact I wouldnt be surprised if some argued that "God gave us a hopper to fill - so why not use it!" It could also be teamed up with doser / doserless grinder, grind through doser, grind on demand or store ground coffee in doser...... and other worthwhile questions......

    Hey Id even admit to storing ground coffee in my doser (when Im making 20+ coffees in quick succession). ;) :)

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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    At risk of outing myself, if youre going to create such a poll dont forget to include a couple of "sometimes" options. Something like "Sometimes half fill the hopper if Im going to be home for the day." Or "Sometimes put a few too many beans in the hopper and was so lazy that I left them for next time."

    Does admitting to both of those make me a coffee heretic?? :P :P :D ;D

  26. #26
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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Ill start getting the wood and stake.

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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaB link=1175633576/15#19 date=1175943777
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1175633576/15#18 date=1175943062
    I (and I think most of us) do that anyway with my non built in grinder.
    Yep, true - if you want fresh beans its the only option......
    I always try to keep a few shots worth in the hopper. I think that it kind of defeats the purpose of buying a really high end grinder if you dont put a full enough load in it for it to grind evenly, as intended. Thats based on actual experimentation. That said, if it is a choice between a slightly uneven grind and beans heating up for a day, Id probably be loading them one shot at a time.

    Cheers,

    Luca "Heretic? So be it!" C

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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1175633576/15#26 date=1176013951
    Quote Originally Posted by JavaB link=1175633576/15#19 date=1175943777
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1175633576/15#18 date=1175943062
    I (and I think most of us) do that anyway with my non built in grinder.
    Yep, true - if you want fresh beans its the only option......
    I always try to keep a few shots worth in the hopper. *I think that it kind of defeats the purpose of buying a really high end grinder if you dont put a full enough load in it for it to grind evenly, as intended. *Thats based on actual experimentation. *That said, if it is a choice between a slightly uneven grind and beans heating up for a day, Id probably be loading them one shot at a time.

    Cheers,

    Luca "Heretic? So be it!" C
    I pop my freshly roasted into the hopper and just let them degas there :-[...Ill join Luca

  29. #29
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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    The longest Ive left beans in the hopper of late, was tonight when I had to make 8 coffees.

    I ground enough for 4 then another 4 so those last beans were there for a good few minutes.

  30. #30
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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Thundergod link=1175633576/15#22 date=1175946073
    So do you think theyll out themselves if we lauch a poll?

    What do you know.... dont even need to launch a poll ;) ;D ;D ;D

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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    did someone say coffee poll? 8-) (checks beanbay status :P)

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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    These days we can prepare coffee instantly, there is no time to wait also. Coffee machine can be used at various places usually at corporate offices,meetings and conferences. The taste of a coffee is superb if its from machine its add some more taste to the coffee no matter we just

    steve


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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Hi Miamoo,

    I was in your position looking for an upgrade until a week or so ago. I had for months planned on the silvia/rocky combo but started reading about the hassles of switching between operation modes and realised I would spend ~$1150 on the combo only to get a bad case of upgraditis thereafter. After much reading and I settled for the Expobar office pulsar semi-auto and an ECM best grinder. It cost nearly a grand more but well worth it. Both look fantastic, are easier to use than the rancillio package, and out class it with boiler size, group head, steam etc.

    A couple of site sponsors sell the equipment.

    jprm


  34. #34
    Wine_of_the_Bean
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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Pretty sure its been sorted out. Last post before Mr. Johnson was in April 2007.

  35. #35
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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Quote Originally Posted by luca link=1175633576/20#26 date=1176013951
    I always try to keep a few shots worth in the hopper. *I think that it kind of defeats the purpose of buying a really high end grinder if you dont put a full enough load in it for it to grind evenly, as intended. *Thats based on actual experimentation. *That said, if it is a choice between a slightly uneven grind and beans heating up for a day, Id probably be loading them one shot at a time.

    Cheers,

    Luca "Heretic? So be it!" C
    It was good to revisit this thread just to find the highlighted quote from Luca.

  36. #36
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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    tbh it was.

    personally once Ive opened the bag to get to the first shot, the one-way valve wouldnt have access to the rest of the bags CO2.

    so i tip about 125g+ of shots in. thats a 20g sink shot and a few strong lattes or double espressos, one for my wife, and a few spare.

    so im with luca and chris on this....but then again, the Macap M4 has a tinted plastic hopper! no nasty exposure to bright sun!

  37. #37
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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    I just fill the hopper, the sunbeam grinder has a tinted hopper too and only holds 200grams or so, and that will last me 5-6 days, I am afraid my taste buds are not up telling the difference between day 1 and day 5 :)


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    Re: Going round in circles - New Equipment needed

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by Identity link=1175633576/20#35 date=1220105539
    no nasty exposure to bright sun!
    your kitchen is roofless?




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