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Thread: Vst basket

  1. #1
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    Post Vst basket

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I am thinking of taking and learning my brewing knowledge to the next level. So far i never take a great care of sophisticated equipment other than what i have that comes with the machine. I ve been using a 18 gram wega basket (comes from the wega portafilter) i also have a 22 gram basket that came with the giotto i bought second hand.

    And i heard about this vst basket, do they really produce better coffee taste? Which basket should i get for starter? They come in 7 15 18 20 and 22, should i get 18 and 22 to compare to what i have now? Or should i get the 15 and 20?

    any opinion regarding this is absolutly welcome

    thanks

  2. #2
    TC
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    I'd debate whether they will "take your learning to the next level". What they will do is provide you with a much smaller bullseye to shoot at as they insist on pretty specific technique.

    As always, the biggest influences on what's in the cup will be your beans, your grinder and your technique.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member shapeshifter's Avatar
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    It really depends on how you like your coffee.

    I have a 15 and 22.

    What I found, working on the 30ml in 30secs, was that although the shot came out perfectly with the 22, the shot really was too strong for my taste.

    The 15 is perfect for me. The BF likes stronger coffee so the 22 actually works for him.

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    With VST's the holes are far more accurately done. Each basket comes with a serial number that means the basket has been individually checked, so, for example, if you got your basket from Pullman (thingscoffee.com.au - site sponsor) you can give him the serial number and get a tamper made to specifically fit that basket.

    On the usage side, VST's let you grind finer than a normal basket and so get a higher extraction rate in the cup. They are a bit intolerant of overdosing, something you will see is very common on the site with lots of people telling how they dose 20g in a 15g basket, or even 22g. I've seen a video where the guy claims his coffee is great because he doses at 21g in a SB double basket.

    With a VST the dose is pretty specific, usually very slightly over the rated size. e.g. maybe 15.5g in a 15g basket. In my experience, the coffee from a VST is richer in flavour that I can get from the SB baskets because I grind at (say) 13 on my SB EM0480 with a given bean for the SB basket and grind at (say)10 or even 9 for the same bean with the VST.

    Having said that, (& I DO recommend the VST's) I think you'd learn more faster getting a naked PF for your machine. Nakeds teach you about how you are dosing/tamping visually - you can SEE when you haven't got it right.

    And the best of both worlds is the VST/Naked combo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shapeshifter View Post

    What I found, working on the 30ml in 30secs, was that although the shot came out perfectly with the 22, the shot really was too strong for my taste.
    Are you getting 30ml in 30s out of the 22? That's... very very very very ristretto.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hildy View Post
    Are you getting 30ml in 30s out of the 22? That's... very very very very ristretto.
    If it doesn't bruise your eyelids when they snap open on the 1st mouthful it ain't really coffee...
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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    For me 30 odd mls, from 20 or so grams, in 30 to 40 seconds, is normal and not very anything except delicious .....

    For those that like to qualify and quantify; it would be a normal ristretto.
    Last edited by chokkidog; 4th May 2014 at 06:53 PM.
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    Senior Member shapeshifter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hildy View Post
    Are you getting 30ml in 30s out of the 22? That's... very very very very ristretto.
    I had a laugh Hildy, that's how he likes his coffee, and often a double shot, I was drinking it for a while and couldn't figure out why I didn't like it, very blonde moment there Got kindly sent a 15g and presto, coffee is fantastic

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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    For me 30 odd mls, from 20 or so grams, in 30 to 40 seconds, is normal and not very anything except delicious .....

    For those that like to qualify and quantify; it would be a normal ristretto.
    I usually agree; but with the traditional extraction ratios, from a nominal 21g basket a normale would be 90ml, a ristretto 60ml.

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    Thanks for all kind replies, yes i am getting the naked portafilter as well, should i get the 18 too for comparison?

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    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hildy View Post
    I usually agree; but with the traditional extraction ratios, from a nominal 21g basket a normale would be 90ml, a ristretto 60ml.
    According to what? 60 ml is pretty much a double espresso. I don't like watery coffee. ;-) But...each to their own! :-D

    Quote Originally Posted by ahhhespressso View Post
    Thanks for all kind replies, yes i am getting the naked portafilter as well, should i get the 18 too for comparison?
    As well as the what? And that would be entirely up to you. You should also price, for comparison, the Precision available from some sponsors. e.g.:

    Precision filter basket 58mm- Espresso parts | Talk Coffee
    Last edited by chokkidog; 5th May 2014 at 09:28 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahhhespressso View Post
    Thanks for all kind replies, yes i am getting the naked portafilter as well, should i get the 18 too for comparison?
    I've got the 15g and the 22g. The 22g has so far been used for 1 double for me and since gets used for 2 coffee pours. Shapeshifters bf might like the coffee from a properly dosed 22. I'll get a single eventually - currently I am exploring the other bean possibilities and singles are a harder task than doubles, so once I get my head around what different roasts can do in a cup, I figure I'll be ready to tackle the 7g single VST.

    I haven't tried the 18g one but the 15g is easily strong enough for me and I like strong macchiatos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Journeyman View Post
    ... so once I get my head around what different roasts can do in a cup, I figure I'll be ready to tackle the 7g single VST.
    You will likely know this already, but if you're going to get a VST single you'll need to get a specific (smaller) tamp to match.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    According to what? 60 ml is pretty much a double espresso. I don't like watery coffee. ;-) But...each to their own! :-D



    As well as the what? And that would be entirely up to you. You should also price, for comparison, the Precision available from some sponsors. e.g.:

    Precision filter basket 58mm- Espresso parts | Talk Coffee
    As comparison to what i have now as i mentioned on my first post that i have 18g and 22g basket that came with the machine. Also as comparison to the 15 gram as i ordered them already from bombora. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwantfm View Post
    You will likely know this already, but if you're going to get a VST single you'll need to get a specific (smaller) tamp to match.
    Yep... although to begin with I will probably try TampIt's trick with the top of a Lipton's Iced Tea bottle. (I think he used a Powerade one but I don't drink that at all )

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    Okay, I just received the 15 and 22 vst basket along with a naked portafilter. I am learning this so help me and tell me if I am doing something wrong

    I dont have time to try the 22 but I managed to have a bit of trial with the 15.

    First I notice that the shape of the vst basket is somewhat "squarer", I got a good firm puck but its a bit hard to knock compared to my regular basket.

    I use 2 dosing technique (make a good centered mountain then tamp with my espro calibrated tamper) and dosing with coffee catcha (dose and level) all involve 2 collapses.

    Both dosing results in even surface just on the ridge of the basket.

    The first dosing results in faster pour, thicker crema, the second one results in slower pour less crema. The centered mountain dosing did not give out centered pour on the naked portafilter and the coffeecatcha dosing is centered. Does this mean we should not "mountain" the dose and level at all time with vst basket?

    I tried 3 shots of each dosing technique and they all produce the same results. All shots done in 25 seconds by timer. I forgot to measure the ml, but the mountain dosing yield more extraction in 25 seconds and more crema. The coffee does taste better with coffeecatcha dosing. More aromatic as my wife put it.

    Then I tried 3 shots each of the dosing technique using my old basket, however the basket i am using is an 18 gram basket so, cant really compare really but all shots taken were nicely centered with the naked and timed 25 seconds.

    My wife and I agreed the coffeecatcha dosing with vst basket yields the most aromatic and sweeter taste. The 18 gram regular basket yields stronger coffee taste but lacking something. Is it just in my head or something you guys can tell me?

    Thanks alot in advance.

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    The coffee i use is brazil single origin cerrado ouro verde rainforest alliance certified. Nice coffee.

  18. #18
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    Make sure you distribute the coffee to the edges and make it level before tamping. I use my index finger and works well. You may need to grind finer than your standard basket also. The 'mountain' won't work well for VST's.

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    I'd consider the 18 or 20gm baskets normal, I like the 18 and 20gm for espresso, the 20 and 22 if you want to cut through milk better.

  20. #20
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    I adjusted my grind size few times and had 10 or so shot trial, i couldnt seem to get things right at first then i checked with my digital scale and i was shocked that if i dose dose collapse dose dose collapse and dose then level (putting back excess ground coffee into the chamber), the ground coffee weigh 20 grams in my 15 gr vst basket. Extraction was awful. This happened when i adjusted the grinder size to finer. And if i do a mountain for 4 dose clicks (i have a manual doser wega max grinder) they weigh 16-17 gram on the digital scale, i get a good centered extraction with a very thick crema. I also read that mountain dosing doesnt work on these baskets on other websites, but it looks ok to me...maybe i am wrong? How thick does a pour should like? The pour was crema thick but not gushing out like watery gushing out.

  21. #21
    Member MrWhite's Avatar
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    I use a 22g vst and dose around 21g depending in the beans. You perhaps could try to dose ~15g and grind slightly finer as an experiment. The pour shouldn't really look any different to a good standard basket pour once you've dialled it in correctly.

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    Thanks i ll try that and grind one click finer

  23. #23
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    FWIW, I'm not 100% convinced that one can make absolute generalisation re dosing weight and nominal capacity of VSTs. I (presently) use a 15g (or 14g?) VST ridgeless basket, in a Diadema Reale, with K3 touch or Macap M2m grinders. While I can grind fine enough to get a sensibly paced extraction at the nominal weight, I much prefer a dose b/w 17-19g (which would still be classed an underdose relative to shower screen height in a regular basket). I weigh the doses only for the purpose of communicating this to my other half who otherwise has a margin for error of +/- 5g.

    Maybe I'm missing something, but it's not clear to me how one can generalise absolutely about dosing weights when machines differ re the height of the shower screen (and pressure at the group I guess, but I know little about this).

    That said I quite like the VSTs (but have decided to experiment with some Espresso Precision baskets from Chris).
    Last edited by Barry O'Speedwagon; 6th May 2014 at 07:58 PM.

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    I don't think you can generalise. Aren't the relative parameters:
    - puck height (relative to shower screen)
    - puck resistance, being related to puck thickness, grind, and to a minimal extent tamp

    I like the VSTs too, but I use the EP baskets because they are more forgiving at 5am.

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    I agree, I don't think you can generalise. VST suggest to stay within +/- 1g of the rated mass of the basket, however some people report success for them outside this range.

    My experience has been that puck height (relative to the shower screen) is irrelevant, provided it is not touching the screen when dry.

  26. #26
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    My understanding is the VST's are made to provide a given extraction percentage for a particular amount of grind. That's why there's the general rule-of-thumb to stay within a gm of the rated size. It's also why they are so carefully made, so that the rating can be consistent; normal baskets with a wider spread of hole size are less predictable due to fines and particle size spread.

    My experience is that VST's give me a wider range for grind/dose/tamp and at the machine will provide a reasonable coffee both at the same g/d/t as the SB basket as well as several notches finer in grind. But there is a definite sweet spot where the flavour takes a leap heavenwards (in keeping with the god-shot idea ) and it is with the grind fine enough to consistently choke on a SB basket.

    Puck height for me is quite a bit lower than I used to pack the SB basket - once I started measuring the dose weight I realised how much I was overdosing. Interestingly, the VST taught me to lower the dose but the same process gives me better decafs from the SB basket now. i.e. I started by lowering my VST dosing and then tried it on the SB basket and found a happy spot for that as well - in both the dose is at least 5mm down from the rim, well clear of the shower-screen and low enough even a $2 coin doesn't leave an imprint.

    Both VST and SB baskets now get 15g - 16g normal dose. (I can't judge it finer because my scales are only 1g accuracy)

  27. #27
    Junior Member EspressoCorp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahhhespressso View Post
    Okay, I just received the 15 and 22 vst basket along with a naked portafilter. I am learning this so help me and tell me if I am doing something wrong

    I dont have time to try the 22 but I managed to have a bit of trial with the 15.

    First I notice that the shape of the vst basket is somewhat "squarer", I got a good firm puck but its a bit hard to knock compared to my regular basket.

    I use 2 dosing technique (make a good centered mountain then tamp with my espro calibrated tamper) and dosing with coffee catcha (dose and level) all involve 2 collapses.

    Both dosing results in even surface just on the ridge of the basket.

    The first dosing results in faster pour, thicker crema, the second one results in slower pour less crema. The centered mountain dosing did not give out centered pour on the naked portafilter and the coffeecatcha dosing is centered. Does this mean we should not "mountain" the dose and level at all time with vst basket?

    I tried 3 shots of each dosing technique and they all produce the same results. All shots done in 25 seconds by timer. I forgot to measure the ml, but the mountain dosing yield more extraction in 25 seconds and more crema. The coffee does taste better with coffeecatcha dosing. More aromatic as my wife put it.

    Then I tried 3 shots each of the dosing technique using my old basket, however the basket i am using is an 18 gram basket so, cant really compare really but all shots taken were nicely centered with the naked and timed 25 seconds.

    My wife and I agreed the coffeecatcha dosing with vst basket yields the most aromatic and sweeter taste. The 18 gram regular basket yields stronger coffee taste but lacking something. Is it just in my head or something you guys can tell me?

    Thanks alot in advance.
    Chiming in a few weeks late here... Great to hear that your brewing with the Coffee Catcha is going well. Let me know if you have any specific questions around that particular product. It would be awesome to see a photo of you using it too, if you'd like to send one, feel free - info[@]espressocorp[dot]com. Thanks, Steve.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journeyman View Post
    Yep... although to begin with I will probably try TampIt's trick with the top of a Lipton's Iced Tea bottle. (I think he used a Powerade one but I don't drink that at all )
    Hi JM

    The only exact fit I found was a "smartwater" guava & lime(???) 500ml(ish) bottle. All the others were too loose. Certainly not Powerade, one sniff was enough (reminded me of James Hardie's asbestos sludge in Welshpool when i was growing up).

    I actually had to use one the other day at a cafe as I didn't intend to do any setup work that day... until I received the panicked call. FWIW, one third full is better than empty / full.

    TampIt

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahhhespressso View Post
    First I notice that the shape of the vst basket is somewhat "squarer", I got a good firm puck but its a bit hard to knock compared to my regular basket.

    I use 2 dosing technique (make a good centered mountain then tamp with my espro calibrated tamper) and dosing with coffee catcha (dose and level) all involve 2 collapses.
    Hi ahhhespressso (love the handle)

    Two VST gotchas seem absent in this thread.

    1) VST's HATE tampers with a curved bottom. Flat is essential to match their designed flow pattern. No idea which espro you have, however all the calibrated ones I have seen are curved bottom. FWIW, I now use 316 Pullmans, however any reasonable tamper (i.e. standard old 6910, before they went curved or even older La Cimbali acetal) with a flat bottom will significantly outperform any curved one (including my two beloved old curved Reg Barbers). Too easy to spot with a naked p/f.

    2) You mentioned the puck being hard to remove. That suggests you have the ridged VST's*. A flick of the wrist is enough to send the puck flying out of any ridgeless VST I have encountered, irrespective of roast / grind / dose / tamp / basket size (I have two complete VST sets and have used a few dozen other ones). If they are ridged, I would swap them for the ridgeless ones immediately before you drive yourself crazy. FYI, the ridged VST's are part of LM paying for the research, and they refuse to use ridgeless ones (why, shaking head). The shots they pull are quite different, and nowhere near as good on any machine I have tried them on (most LM's, a few other "up market" ones all the way down to a friends (very) cheap Breville. Kinda half a VST in terms of the shot quality.

    * One cafe even swapped their "LM ridged VST's" for ridgeless when they saw the shots coming out of their Strada. Not a subtle difference, and no "bean saving" in sight for them in that case.

    The other things I would back:-

    JM's comment about interchanging the baskets without needing to alter grind: Yep, done it heaps of times from 7 through 15, 18, 20 to a 22g. A minor tamping adjustment is usually enough to stay "in the zone". Note: the 7g is "shelved", rather than "ridged". the centre flows like a ridgeless, and correct dosing is well "under the shelf" by a mm or more.

    JM's dosing within +/- 1g: that is the ONLY way to get the higher extraction ratios (aka flavour quantity) out of a VST. Standard espresso baskets: 14 to 16% (look them up anywhere) for an optimised shot. VST's: correct dosing and grinding finer to optimise shot: 20%+ (I usually get 21 to 22% consistently). Half again the flavour whack for the same cost of beans... Oh, and when we deliberately overdosed them, extraction ratio was anything from 12% up to 16 or 17%. Ditto using a standard espresso grind and tinkering with the dose: standard extraction ratios (15%), with really thin weak flavour. That is probably why a number of CSr's have had no joy with VSTs: they are trying to use them like standard baskets. Five minutes reading the VST research papers would show them they are way out of spec that way.

    Flavour quality: AFAIAC, once set up properly a VST wins hands down. Not even a close contest using any of my older baskets (50+ sets of all kinds of brands until I culled them recently) or any setup in any cafe I have tinkered with. Most of those cafes are now running VST's, as the owners have been convinced (saving on the beans undoubtedly helps). BTW, I do not sell VST's or get a commission in any way for that! Just some old friends who I worked with "way back when" who now have their own cafes.



    Have fun


    TampIt

  30. #30
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    Great thread, great discussion.

    I am still working away with my 7g VST Naked P/F.
    I can still see my faults, I get a few 'pour streams' before it centralised into one pour.

    But I like the coffee that comes out, so I will keep working away on it.
    Still haven't made myself a good tamper yet, using my modified plastic cheap Breville one, the with the spoon on the other end!

    Keep up the good work.

  31. #31
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post

    1) No idea which espro you have, however all the calibrated ones I have seen are curved bottom.
    Espro make flat and convex tampers.

    Quote Originally Posted by rawill View Post

    I am still working away with my 7g VST Naked P/F.
    I can still see my faults, I get a few 'pour streams' before it centralised into one pour.

    But I like the coffee that comes out,
    Hi rawill
    What are your expectations, in terms of seconds, before your pour comes together in a single cone?

    What are your actual times?

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    Hi rawill
    What are your expectations, in terms of seconds, before your pour comes together in a single cone?

    What are your actual times?
    A good question, I guess I thought "immediately", no drips, no other streams, just a single pour straight away.

    But now that you have challenged me, I am thinking that is probably impossible.

    This morning there were about 3 or 4 drips, then a single cone.

    Even at the longest, (without having timed it) I am thinking about a second or two before it becomes a single cone, unless of course I really mess up the grind and tamping, which can happen sometimes if I have old beans.

    The beans last a LOT LONGER with a 7gm VST basket.

    I keep them in an airtight can when I have opened the bag, and only put in a few at a time into the EM480 grinder.

    AND, I just checked to see how many grams are going in to my 7g VST basket.
    This morning it must have been about 5, I just dosed it again and it was 6, and it was filled up more than when I did it for my morning coffee.

    Robin

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TampIt View Post
    2) You mentioned the puck being hard to remove. That suggests you have the ridged VST's*. A flick of the wrist is enough to send the puck flying out of any ridgeless VST I have encountered, irrespective of roast / grind / dose / tamp / basket size (I have two complete VST sets and have used a few dozen other ones).
    Just wanted to throw in a vote for "harder to remove (and messier, IME)". I need to give a decent bash to get it free first-time and frequently need a follow-up as it doesn't necessarily knock ou in one piece/layer.

    Dead even extraction, close to a piston-fit tamper, average tamp weight, light polish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rawill View Post
    Even at the longest, (without having timed it) I am thinking about a second or two before it becomes a single cone, unless of course I really mess up the grind and tamping, which can happen sometimes if I have old beans.

    The beans last a LOT LONGER with a 7gm VST basket.
    What do you mean by that?

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    I find the ridge/ridge-less makes no difference in how hard it is to get the puck out cleanly. For me, it depends on dose. If I'm dosing lower, the puck is sloppier and usually doesn't come out in one hit. I don't worry about what the puck looks like at all. I did for ages and then discovered that for my tastes, coffee and gear combination, the yummiest espressos tend to have wet pucks. But I don't use that info at all. I just adjust dose and grind to get the taste I like. Sometimes, the a higher dose gives a nicer shot so the puck is drier, but I don't look at the puck to see if I'm producing nice shots. I also think (again, for my setup) the ridge makes no difference to taste.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete39 View Post
    I find the ridge/ridge-less makes no difference in how hard it is to get the puck out cleanly. For me, it depends on dose. If I'm dosing lower, the puck is sloppier and usually doesn't come out in one hit. I don't worry about what the puck looks like at all. I did for ages and then discovered that for my tastes, coffee and gear combination, the yummiest espressos tend to have wet pucks. But I don't use that info at all. I just adjust dose and grind to get the taste I like. Sometimes, the a higher dose gives a nicer shot so the puck is drier, but I don't look at the puck to see if I'm producing nice shots. I also think (again, for my setup) the ridge makes no difference to taste.
    Sounds like you have things nicely under control Pete.
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  37. #37
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rawill View Post
    A good question, I guess I thought "immediately", no drips, no other streams, just a single pour straight away.

    But now that you have challenged me, I am thinking that is probably impossible.

    This morning there were about 3 or 4 drips, then a single cone.

    Even at the longest, (without having timed it) I am thinking about a second or two before it becomes a single cone, unless of course I really mess up the grind and tamping, which can happen sometimes if I have old beans.
    Hi Robin,

    I'm a fan of syrupy, drippy pours and am happy if I don't see a single stream until the 6th to

    the 12th second ......... but I don't use such a small filter. But I gave it a go........

    Using the single filter, same coffee, grind setting and tamp the drippy bit lasted 3 seconds. ( standard extraction ).

    When I first started with proper coffee, extraction flow was described to me as " a drip that wants to pour ".

    I could play around with it a bit more but I consider a circa 7g dose a waste of good coffee!! ;-D :-D :-D

    Cheers.
    Dragunov21 and cafelazio like this.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yelta View Post
    Sounds like you have things nicely under control Pete.
    Hi Yelta, sounds like it hey? Most of the time I can sort things out pretty quickly if things don't taste right, but just when all seems well, something comes up that catches me off guard!! Current issue is with my roasting and the cold weather - have not used my current roasting setup in winter and am finding I need more heat - work to be done, fun to be had!

    I'm with Chokkidog - I tend to like the slow, drippy pours and usually don't get a single stream until about 10 seconds after the first drops (sometimes quite a bit later if the pour is really slow). Much quicker and I loose the flavors I like.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrJack View Post
    What do you mean by that?
    I mean a bag of beans last longer when using a 7gm VST basket, compared with when I was using the normal Sunbeam single basket.
    I probably put double the grinds in the Sunbeam than I do with the VST.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    I could play around with it a bit more but I consider a circa 7g dose a waste of good coffee!! ;-D :-D :-D

    Cheers.
    So how many grams of ground beans would you put in a single basket?

    I thought a 7gm basket should be about 7grams or a bit less.

  41. #41
    Senior Member chokkidog's Avatar
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    I don't weigh my coffee........but I do have scales. :-D

    My single filter just sits under a pile of coffee 'stuff', at the back of a big drawer, under the coffee machine.

    It is not a VST x 7 gm, so it probably doses somewhere up to 15 gms??

    The single spout p/f has the blind filter in it permanently..... for the daily backflush.

    My regular filter is a 21 gm Precision.

    I'll be back in a minute........ in the single: 12.4 gms. ( going by volume...maybe a slightly higher dose than this morning )

    A 7gm VST is probably +/- 1 or 2 gms, when playing by the VST rules?? but what it can actually hold, I don't know.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    I don't weigh my coffee........but I do have scales. :-D

    My single filter just sits under a pile of coffee 'stuff', at the back of a big drawer, under the coffee machine.

    It is not a VST x 7 gm, so it probably doses somewhere up to 15 gms??

    The single spout p/f has the blind filter in it permanently..... for the daily backflush.

    My regular filter is a 21 gm Precision.
    Snap chokki

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    I don't weigh my coffee........but I do have scales. :-D


    A 7gm VST is probably +/- 1 or 2 gms, when playing by the VST rules?? but what it can actually hold, I don't know.
    I don't normally weigh my coffee either, just did it for fun the other day.

    I fill the basket to about 1mm below the top of the 1st step, leaves lots of room for water to settle on the puck!!!
    Wet sometimes sloppy puck.

    It will probably hold at least 3 times that amount of coffee.

    Robin

  44. #44
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    VST's are, by design, rated at about the size given. Don't dose them to the 'normal' level, dose them to the recommended weight. Works well. Some people get VST's and ignore what is said and dose them like they'd dose other baskets and then complain the VST's are hard to use - they aren't, but some people have problems following recommendations.

    From another member who has spent a LONG time making coffees, stick to a little above the rated VST size and you will discover a better level of flavour.
    mwcalder05 likes this.

  45. #45
    Senior Member Barry O'Speedwagon's Avatar
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    Out of interest, JM, how many different machines have you tried the VSTs on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    I don't weigh my coffee........but I do have scales. :-D

    A 7gm VST is probably +/- 1 or 2 gms, when playing by the VST rules?? but what it can actually hold, I don't know.
    I've just had a good play with a VST 7gm after reading this thread and the large thread below this one and I am pleased with the results. I followed my normal routine (VBM Jnr & K3 Touch) of dose and collapse twice, fill to a mound and sweep out with Scott Callaghans dosing tool #27 or #28. This sweep out allows a clearance with the screen. I tamped then weighed the basket with and without the grind and found that I had 16gms of coffee, assuming my scales are correct With my VBM single basket using the same technique I got 14gms. I then pulled a shot and it was way too quick. Tightened the grind and bingo. The pour was good with tiger stripes etc, blonded after about 27 seconds, plenty of crema and it tasted delicious. Call it a ristretto or whatever you like but it was a great coffee. I conclude that this basket has made a difference despite my ageing taste buds. I reckon you could get close to 20gms in a 7gm basket but I doubt you'd be able to lock in your group handle.

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    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by chokkidog View Post
    According to what? 60 ml is pretty much a double espresso. I don't like watery coffee. ;-) But...each to their own! :-D
    I've just got a naked portafilter and a 22g VST basket and have been experimenting.
    For the 22 gram basket in a naked portafilter, what should I be aiming for in terms of mls and timing?

    Dumb question - should I expect a different volume than if I was to use a single or double spout portafilter?



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